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Offline Shentist

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bithalo
« on: October 30, 2014, 07:19:16 AM »

in one mumble session bytemaster talked about escrow vs. mutlisig

how will we implement it? Bithalo seems like an awsome solution. Maybe we should try to hire David

http://bithalo.org/

also he did a good presentation job

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZp3Up5Y4pE#t=1211

Offline Shentist

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Re: bithalo
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2014, 07:27:02 PM »
bump

Offline toast

Re: bithalo
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2014, 07:36:54 PM »
Meh... "first smart contract platform" and "unbreakable contracts"... really stretching those words.

DDE is not "unbreakable" and is usually not better than a normal escrow. The smart contracts aren't, they're just DDE posted with a blob of text.

I met and talked to this guy a little while at cryptolina, by the way
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Offline Shentist

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Re: bithalo
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2014, 07:58:29 PM »
i like the idea of collaterized escrow without the need of a 3rd party

Offline donkeypong

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Re: bithalo
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2014, 08:27:00 PM »
I'm sure someone could add this if anyone would use it. Blackcoin has a BlackHalo also. Basically, this concept only protects against the situation where one party walks away from the contract, which is not as common as you'd think. It cannot prevent against misunderstandings or against fraud, which is far more prevalent, since there are only two parties involved and one can still lie (with no arbiter and no recourse). In the end, it's A's word against B's word.

The Halo's do not really address the most common causes of contract breach. They are slightly better than nothing, maybe half a step beyond the starting line. That limits them to small transactions where parties are comfortable taking on 90+% of the contract risk themselves.

Offline Shentist

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Re: bithalo
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2014, 09:12:54 PM »
I'm sure someone could add this if anyone would use it. Blackcoin has a BlackHalo also. Basically, this concept only protects against the situation where one party walks away from the contract, which is not as common as you'd think. It cannot prevent against misunderstandings or against fraud, which is far more prevalent, since there are only two parties involved and one can still lie (with no arbiter and no recourse). In the end, it's A's word against B's word.

The Halo's do not really address the most common causes of contract breach. They are slightly better than nothing, maybe half a step beyond the starting line. That limits them to small transactions where parties are comfortable taking on 90+% of the contract risk themselves.

if i understand it correct via bithalo you could buy on ebay and both parties have to put up collateral to start the deal. so with this collateral in place the benefit to do fraud is less likely and so both parties benefit from it. you need no escrow or 3rd party to enforce the contract. If you do not fullfil both parties will loose the collateral.

i think here is some potential.

Offline donkeypong

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Re: bithalo
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2014, 09:33:32 PM »
It prevents walking away. It certainly does not prevent more common kinds of fraud when there are just two parties, collateral or not. I admit it limits the risk, but it's not much limitation. Has BitHalo or BlackHalo achieved any sort of traction? Do people use these? My knowledge is limited; maybe people do use them.

Offline luckybit

Re: bithalo
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2014, 09:49:04 PM »
Meh... "first smart contract platform" and "unbreakable contracts"... really stretching those words.

DDE is not "unbreakable" and is usually not better than a normal escrow. The smart contracts aren't, they're just DDE posted with a blob of text.

I met and talked to this guy a little while at cryptolina, by the way

We can come up with a better solution.
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Offline bytemaster

Re: bithalo
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2014, 09:51:19 PM »
I'm sure someone could add this if anyone would use it. Blackcoin has a BlackHalo also. Basically, this concept only protects against the situation where one party walks away from the contract, which is not as common as you'd think. It cannot prevent against misunderstandings or against fraud, which is far more prevalent, since there are only two parties involved and one can still lie (with no arbiter and no recourse). In the end, it's A's word against B's word.

The Halo's do not really address the most common causes of contract breach. They are slightly better than nothing, maybe half a step beyond the starting line. That limits them to small transactions where parties are comfortable taking on 90+% of the contract risk themselves.

if i understand it correct via bithalo you could buy on ebay and both parties have to put up collateral to start the deal. so with this collateral in place the benefit to do fraud is less likely and so both parties benefit from it. you need no escrow or 3rd party to enforce the contract. If you do not fullfil both parties will loose the collateral.

i think here is some potential.

Not really... the fraudster can get 100 people into this contract and then give them the ultimatum that they can get 50% back or nothing.    Now it is a game of numbers... the rational individual prefers 50% to 0 so takes the deal.  Those that want to "punish the fraudster" will take 0....

So the fraudster loses money on X% of the transactions, but makes 1.5x his money on Y% of transactions.   In the end the fraudster wins on average unless no one defects and settles with the fraudster. 
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sumantso

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Re: bithalo
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2014, 10:55:08 AM »
There was big fallout over the BitBay disaster. For all those who didn't follow, BitBay raised 3000 BTC through an ICO which turned out be (surprise surprise) paid mostly by themselves (to create a false sense of demand). They got the money, a few of them ran off and the remaining 2-3 are still trying to go ahead with the project (lol).

Anyways, my post is in concerning this David Zimbeck, who claims to be innocent. He has the code for this almost working, and so I wonder if we can tempt him to give it to/work for us. At this point I think he is motivated to rebuild a tattered reputation, and seeing his code work and become useful may appeal to him (lets face it, neither BlackCoin nor BitBay are going anywhere).

Offline graffenwalder

Re: bithalo
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2014, 11:07:22 AM »
There was big fallout over the BitBay disaster. For all those who didn't follow, BitBay raised 3000 BTC through an ICO which turned out be (surprise surprise) paid mostly by themselves (to create a false sense of demand). They got the money, a few of them ran off and the remaining 2-3 are still trying to go ahead with the project (lol).

Anyways, my post is in concerning this David Zimbeck, who claims to be innocent. He has the code for this almost working, and so I wonder if we can tempt him to give it to/work for us. At this point I think he is motivated to rebuild a tattered reputation, and seeing his code work and become useful may appeal to him (lets face it, neither BlackCoin nor BitBay are going anywhere).

Just looked into the BitBay disaster. The thing that worries me is that they claim that bter was working with the fraudsters. Allegedly bter used fake btc to buy into the IPO and gave the Fraudsters BTC so they could pump the price. This is a alleged transcript between one of the fraudsters and bter

http://pastebin.com/iintnvAj

Normally I couldn't care less about these scams, but bter has been BTS friendly(supportive).
If bter where to pull another gox, I'm afraid this would hurt us to.

I would love to hear from bter, what they have to say about this.

sumantso

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Re: bithalo
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2014, 11:12:28 AM »
There was big fallout over the BitBay disaster. For all those who didn't follow, BitBay raised 3000 BTC through an ICO which turned out be (surprise surprise) paid mostly by themselves (to create a false sense of demand). They got the money, a few of them ran off and the remaining 2-3 are still trying to go ahead with the project (lol).

Anyways, my post is in concerning this David Zimbeck, who claims to be innocent. He has the code for this almost working, and so I wonder if we can tempt him to give it to/work for us. At this point I think he is motivated to rebuild a tattered reputation, and seeing his code work and become useful may appeal to him (lets face it, neither BlackCoin nor BitBay are going anywhere).

Just looked into the BitBay disaster. The thing that worries me is that they claim that bter was working with the fraudsters. Allegedly bter used fake btc to buy into the IPO and gave the Fraudsters BTC so they could pump the price. This is a alleged transcript between one of the fraudsters and bter

http://pastebin.com/iintnvAj

Normally I couldn't care less about these scams, but bter has been BTS friendly(supportive).
If bter where to pull another gox, I'm afraid this would hurt us to.

I would love to hear from bter, what they have to say about this.

I looked into that, seems fabricated. I wouldn't worry about it.

I read on NXT forum they asked BTER to clarify and they (BTER) claimed they were being framed.

 

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