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Offline bytemaster

Delegate Pay Rate Change
« on: October 30, 2014, 09:17:41 PM »

It is our intention to reset all existing delegate accounts to 3% pay rate upon the upgrade to delegates paid with dilution.  3% will be 1.5 BTS per block which is about what delegates get paid on average right now.   Fees will be burned, so the end result of this change will be no dilution for any current delegates.

New delegates seeking a dilution-paid position should start their campaigns after Nov. 5th (the next hard fork).


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Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline roadscape

Re: Delegate Pay Rate Change
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2014, 09:59:19 PM »
Interesting.. fees deflate, and pay inflates.

Transaction volume will no longer influence delegate pay.
Could this at all affect the incentive for which transactions are included in a block?

For example, couldn't a delegate process 0 transactions and still get paid?
Would they just have to get voted out?
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Offline xeroc

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Re: Delegate Pay Rate Change
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2014, 10:03:37 PM »
I like it!
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Offline xeroc

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Re: Delegate Pay Rate Change
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2014, 10:04:30 PM »
Interesting.. fees deflate, and pay inflates.

Transaction volume will no longer influence delegate pay.
Could this at all affect the incentive for which transactions are included in a block?

For example, couldn't a delegate process 0 transactions and still get paid?
Would they just have to get voted out?
There job is to include transactions into blocks .. if they fail miserably .. they should be unapproved
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Offline spartako

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Re: Delegate Pay Rate Change
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2014, 10:05:04 PM »
+3% ;)
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Offline Ander

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Re: Delegate Pay Rate Change
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2014, 10:14:02 PM »
I'm trying to better understand how delegate pay works.


Delegates only get paid for the blocks that they create, correct?  (So each delegate gets their turn once per 101 blocks, and they get paid then?)

Therefore, a delegate running at 100% pay would get 50 BTS per time their turn came, which happens once every 101 blocks?



If this is true, then if ALL 101 delegate were elected with 100% pay, inflation would be around 8% a year (simlar to bitcoin).

If only a few delegates were elected with 100% pay, and the rest are elected with 3% pay, then inflation will be very very small?

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Offline roadscape

Re: Delegate Pay Rate Change
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2014, 10:14:52 PM »
There job is to include transactions into blocks .. if they fail miserably .. they should be unapproved

Ah.. if we had on average 1000 tx's per block it would be trivial to see who was underperforming. Makes sense.

I like the proposal. Feels fair!
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Offline roadscape

Re: Delegate Pay Rate Change
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2014, 10:15:58 PM »
If this is true, then if ALL 101 delegate were elected with 100% pay, inflation would be around 8% a year (simlar to bitcoin).

If only a few delegates were elected with 100% pay, and the rest are elected with 3% pay, then inflation will be very very small?

Yep
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Offline xeroc

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Re: Delegate Pay Rate Change
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2014, 10:16:26 PM »
Missing some txs can happen due to network transport latency ... but it should be easuer then to identify those lazy delegates .. yhea
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Offline Method-X

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Re: Delegate Pay Rate Change
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2014, 10:17:20 PM »
Excellent!

Offline Ander

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Re: Delegate Pay Rate Change
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2014, 10:20:50 PM »
It seems to me that even if we elect every member of the dev team as a 100% paid delegate, plus the marketing team as 100% paid delegate, plus MethodX for his reddit ad campaign, plus a few others, we are probably STILL only looking at a ~2% or so inflation per year.

Wow, that is quite low!

The dumpers have been SERIOUSLY overreacting to this change. 
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Offline Method-X

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Re: Delegate Pay Rate Change
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2014, 10:25:07 PM »
It seems to me that even if we elect every member of the dev team as a 100% paid delegate, plus the marketing team as 100% paid delegate, plus MethodX for his reddit ad campaign, plus a few others, we are probably STILL only looking at a ~2% or so inflation per year.

Wow, that is quite low!

The dumpers have been SERIOUSLY overreacting to this change.

Indeed they have. 2% is a great place to start and it allows us to figure out what's most effective before "maxing" it out at 8%.

Offline xeroc

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Re: Delegate Pay Rate Change
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2014, 10:25:08 PM »
Lol .. yeah .. thats what we are trying to tell the the whole time .. WORST case 8% .. and only if stakeholders agree
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Offline Ander

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Re: Delegate Pay Rate Change
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2014, 10:30:02 PM »
Lol .. yeah .. thats what we are trying to tell the the whole time .. WORST case 8% .. and only if stakeholders agree

Realistic case...probably 2% or less right now.

And yet, they reduced the BTS market cap by 50% because of this.  Markets are so irrational sometimes.


I'm very reassured by this. :)
I was expecting 8% inflation but now I'm expecting 2%. 
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Offline liondani

Re: Delegate Pay Rate Change
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2014, 11:05:10 PM »
what about instead of  +3% a  +5% pay rate (+marketing wise it's good to use our  +5% meme in that way)

3% means about 3850 BTSX a month  per delegate aka 3850*$0.018= $69 per month,
considering the cost to maintain a server (vps) for the delegate and a seenode + the time for
the updates etc. and our time helping in various ways the bitshares ecosystem...

it would be better in my opinion to lock it at  +5% and it remains still fair for all....
 +5%  means 2.5 btsx/ block
that means for a month about 6400 btsx per delegate aka 6400*$0.018= $115  per month  (about what we are get paid before a month or so)

I think we are worth at least that money!  :)

my 2 bts

PS Of course if everybody agrees with the initial proposal, I am ok too. You know better
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