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Offline JoeyD

And so it begins.
« on: November 02, 2014, 09:26:35 PM »

Negative interest rates on saving accounts are now a fact. (couldn't figure out how to post a google translate link)

So the competition is doing -#%. Now if only there was an alternative that might even offer a little interest on savings. Where O Where art thou?

Btw if you want my opinion on the idea of negative interest rates on my savings, that would be something like:

Oh HELL NO you 
And you may quote me on that.

Offline oco101

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Re: And so it begins.
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2014, 12:32:42 AM »
I  add this must read article The Zombie System: How Capitalism Has Gone Off the Rails 

Unbelievable how Bitshares could solve a lot of the actual banks problems !!

Offline JoeyD

Re: And so it begins.
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2014, 01:45:01 PM »
I  add this must read article The Zombie System: How Capitalism Has Gone Off the Rails 

Unbelievable how Bitshares could solve a lot of the actual banks problems !!

Thanks for the link, was indeed a good read.

Hmm, reading all those comments from big names confirming just about all of the stuff I feared was happening is very disturbing. In this case I do not like to be right or have my suspicions confirmed. I really do feel we are headed for a collapse or burst of some sort. Lets see how 2015 plays out, I don't know why but the end of 2014 and the year 2015 have been springing to mind quite a while now whenever I thought about the start of an actual financial crisis. As opposed to the banks internal "credit" crisis we have currently, (funny how they have conveniently pushed their internal problems to everybody but themselves and have even gotten people to name it just crisis).
« Last Edit: November 03, 2014, 01:57:53 PM by JoeyD »

Offline Riverhead

Re: And so it begins.
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2014, 01:56:45 PM »
The private customers of banks have been living wit this for at least a decade. Raise your hand if the 0.1% you're earning on your "savings" account covers even half the fees the bank charges you throughout the year.

Offline JoeyD

Re: And so it begins.
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2014, 02:03:48 PM »
Or if you live in a country where the government has decided how much interest they think you should have been receiving and taxes you on that, instead of taxing the actual interest you receive. So you end up paying twice as much in tax as you actually received in interest, add some inflation to that plus the idea that you already payed tax several times for the little amount you were able to save and you feel real happy.

But if you want to complain you can only do so via Twitter, because taxes are hip that way, saves them paper when they tell you to F... off and vote for it in the next election.

Offline Riverhead

Re: And so it begins.
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2014, 02:44:55 PM »
Wow, that is harsh. Taxing on what you should have been earning. Talk about getting f'd twice!

Offline oldman

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Re: And so it begins.
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2014, 04:36:02 PM »
This is where bitFiat really needs to step in.

On/off ramps and a mobile wallet.

Your bank in the palm of your hand.

Offline JoeyD

Re: And so it begins.
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2014, 08:53:03 PM »
@Riverhead: Yeah, talk about adding insult to injury.

@OldMan Yes from the point of view of people with savings-acounts that would be interesting, but don't forget cold-storage solutions either.

On the other hand looking at these near zero-interest loan junky financial systems(although I don't think the term system applies anymore), my doubts about a painless crossover are getting bigger with each passing moment. Eventhough I hold no love for the current banks, I still had in the back of my mind the idea that there might be someone interested in a better system. Kinda sad to see my last glimmer of hope dissappearing for banks coming around to solutions such as bts(x). Alas ...

Offline oldman

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Re: And so it begins.
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2014, 08:35:24 AM »
Once the tech is stable and on/off ramps in place everyone on this forum should approach any and all credit unions in their communities and ask for bitAssets to be onboarded.

If just one brick-and-mortar bank made bitAssets available as savings/investment account it would provide a marketing opportunity to leap-frog Bitcoin in at least one aspect of mainstream adoption.

Offline JoeyD

Re: And so it begins.
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2014, 08:43:35 PM »
Well part of the reason I posted the above link and also why I appreciate the link the from oco101 is that I'm not thinking about leapfrogging bitcoin. To be honest, bitcoin is so small it is hardly worth mentioning and far from invincible as well. What does concern me is the current financial system going completely nuts and having lost all contact with reality.

How do you compete with magic acts and untenable financial hocus pocus acts in the short term? Bitshares does not have the luxury of limitless nearly interest free loans, like these banks seem to have. Also when talking about network effect, is nobody realizing that the banks are so far ahead in that respect you'd need eye-prosthetics to even be able to discern crypto?

The real competitors I'm worried about are not other cryptos, unless it is infected by one of these powerful diseased structures. I don't mind people deluding themselves in seeing something in the mumbo jumbo market trading pattern voodoo or people believing gambling/speculating is a viable alternative for an actual economy of production, what I do mind is when these nut-jobs start controlling and effecting other peoples lives. My hope is that either bitshares or any other crypto-project for that matter is a tool to cut away these monstrous cancers from our society or create a completely separate alternative. I might be overly pessimistic but I'm afraid the tumors are now out of control and taken over all our defensive mechanisms, I think it might be better to give up on this patient than waste time trying to save it. (Translate to, it might be better to not expect anything from our current financial system and just go a completely separate way).

zerosum

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Re: And so it begins.
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2014, 12:01:04 AM »
Well part of the reason I posted the above link and also why I appreciate the link the from oco101 is that I'm not thinking about leapfrogging bitcoin. To be honest, bitcoin is so small it is hardly worth mentioning and far from invincible as well. What does concern me is the current financial system going completely nuts and having lost all contact with reality.

How do you compete with magic acts and untenable financial hocus pocus acts in the short term? Bitshares does not have the luxury of limitless nearly interest free loans, like these banks seem to have. Also when talking about network effect, is nobody realizing that the banks are so far ahead in that respect you'd need eye-prosthetics to even be able to discern crypto?

The real competitors I'm worried about are not other cryptos, unless it is infected by one of these powerful diseased structures. I don't mind people deluding themselves in seeing something in the mumbo jumbo market trading pattern voodoo or people believing gambling/speculating is a viable alternative for an actual economy of production, what I do mind is when these nut-jobs start controlling and effecting other peoples lives. My hope is that either bitshares or any other crypto-project for that matter is a tool to cut away these monstrous cancers from our society or create a completely separate alternative. I might be overly pessimistic but I'm afraid the tumors are now out of control and taken over all our defensive mechanisms, I think it might be better to give up on this patient than waste time trying to save it. (Translate to, it might be better to not expect anything from our current financial system and just go a completely separate way).
So, how do we start?
All I am saying is that I agree with the problem... as far as a practical solutions/path/approach, I have not heard any, yet, and I have not come up with one on my own.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2014, 12:02:38 AM by tonyk2 »

Offline JoeyD

Re: And so it begins.
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2014, 01:34:12 AM »
So, how do we start?
All I am saying is that I agree with the problem... as far as a practical solutions/path/approach, I have not heard any, yet, and I have not come up with one on my own.
Biggest issue for me is that I have a hard time predicting how the masses will react and that seems to be a rather important aspect in this. So the best I can do for now is to try and bring some awareness and at least talk about it. I have no idea how it is in other countries, but I can tell you there is not enough talk about this in my country.

So I'm thinking along the lines of the 2 main paths I mentioned in my post: 1). Try to "fix" the current system and comply or 2) try and make an independent alternative. Both have some serious difficulties, but if the old system is rotten beyond repair, it might be advisable to at least also consider more radical solutions even if those will not "pay-out" or bring immediate profit.

I do not believe that there are no possible ways to use blockchain technologies without being completely reliant on on- and offramps and I'm not talking bts(x) here. To me that requirement seems to be the biggest stumbling block. While I'm able to come up with several concepts and applications, I admit that I have not been able to think of one that will attract speculators and people only interested in the short term gains expressed in dollars.

 

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