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Offline bytemaster

Using Proof of Waste for Account Registration
« on: November 07, 2014, 03:59:55 AM »

One of the biggest hurdles we face is getting new accounts registered without spamming the network.   The cost to register an account is about $0.01 and to grab new users we require going through 3rd party centralized services to help people register their account.  This harms the whole experience.

I would like to propose we allow new accounts to be registered in exchange for a "proof of waste" of $0.01.   A CPU burning 100W for 1 hour at $0.10/KWH would do the trick.

From a user experience point of view it would be "slow" compared to using a centralized service would could verify your email in 5 minutes... but the centralized services would cost the network more than $0.01 per user to operate.  This would then have to be paid for via delegate pay. 

A solid user acquisition plan would easily handle the registration for the user and $0.01 trx fee is likely nothing compared to the value of signing up a user.  So perhaps the entire the POW registration has no effective value.     
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Offline roadscape

Re: Using Proof of Waste for Account Registration
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2014, 04:05:51 AM »
Sounds like a hack though. What if the registration fee was 5 BTSX?

edit:

Ok, it doesn't solve the centralization. I always thought the DNS bidding system could replace these essentially free names. Is that possible?
« Last Edit: November 07, 2014, 04:09:34 AM by roadkill »
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Offline bytemaster

Re: Using Proof of Waste for Account Registration
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2014, 04:08:00 AM »
Sounds like a hack though. What if the registration fee was 5 BTSX?

Delegates could set the proof of waste like they set fees.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline fluxer555

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Re: Using Proof of Waste for Account Registration
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2014, 04:13:25 AM »
I don't like it. I think centralized services are fine, and are worth every penny (literally, in this case). Can't you use AGS funds for this?

You can couple new account services with onramps, and only give them an account with a minimum of $1 BitUSD deposit. That should pay for itself many times over.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2014, 04:35:57 AM by fluxer555 »

Offline roadscape

Re: Using Proof of Waste for Account Registration
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2014, 04:14:45 AM »
Sounds like a hack though. What if the registration fee was 5 BTSX?

Delegates could set the proof of waste like they set fees.

My edit above:
"Ok, it doesn't solve the centralization. I always thought the DNS bidding system could replace these essentially free names. Is that possible?"

I see what you're saying, though. I can't think of another way for a user to "pay" without having to use any form of currency.

Except for the captcha project. It would have to be more complex (i.e. expensive) than that.
Hmm..
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Offline alphaBar

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Re: Using Proof of Waste for Account Registration
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2014, 04:16:00 AM »
Not sure if this would be sufficient to prevent an attacker with existing idle hardware from bloating the blockchain at no cost...

Offline alphaBar

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Re: Using Proof of Waste for Account Registration
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2014, 04:18:49 AM »
Not sure if this would be sufficient to prevent an attacker with existing idle hardware from bloating the blockchain at no cost...

Could be solved by using a currently unused hash function I guess, but using PoW does feel like jumping down a rabbit hole.

Offline gamey

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Re: Using Proof of Waste for Account Registration
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2014, 04:20:10 AM »

I guess captcha's don't work because the entropy source would be the blockchain and thus someone could hack around it and spam the network ?
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Offline gamey

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Re: Using Proof of Waste for Account Registration
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2014, 04:21:38 AM »
Not sure if this would be sufficient to prevent an attacker with existing idle hardware from bloating the blockchain at no cost...

It is the cost of the power not the existence of hardware.
I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline roadscape

Re: Using Proof of Waste for Account Registration
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2014, 04:27:28 AM »

I guess captcha's don't work because the entropy source would be the blockchain and thus someone could hack around it and spam the network ?

If delegates can be trusted to generate captchas, we could do cool things like adjusting captcha difficulty based on velocity of registrations.
But that could be also done with the POW approach.
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Offline Thom

Re: Using Proof of Waste for Account Registration
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2014, 04:28:32 AM »
I'm totally confused by this thread. Why "waste" anything to register new users? It seems totally counter intuitive since the point of BitShares is to eliminate waste. Fine, so that refers to mining waste but I'm totally confused why people just don't buy their account registration for what you seem to be saying here is only a few pennies anyway.

I feel like I'm missing something fundamental (yet again). Someone care to pls explain?
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Offline roadscape

Re: Using Proof of Waste for Account Registration
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2014, 04:35:12 AM »
I'm totally confused by this thread. Why "waste" anything to register new users? It seems totally counter intuitive since the point of BitShares is to eliminate waste. Fine, so that refers to mining waste but I'm totally confused why people just don't buy their account registration for what you seem to be saying here is only a few pennies anyway.

I feel like I'm missing something fundamental (yet again). Someone care to pls explain?

How could we allow people to register names without going through a central service like a faucet or forum?
And how do we prevent spam accounts?
« Last Edit: November 07, 2014, 04:37:48 AM by roadkill »
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Offline sudo

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Re: Using Proof of Waste for Account Registration
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2014, 04:38:06 AM »
use computer  pow  altcoins
 exchange buy  btsx to register

gun  pool (virtual pow of btsx)

Offline gamey

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Re: Using Proof of Waste for Account Registration
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2014, 04:40:04 AM »

I guess captcha's don't work because the entropy source would be the blockchain and thus someone could hack around it and spam the network ?

If delegates can be trusted to generate captchas, we could do cool things like adjusting captcha difficulty based on velocity of registrations.
But that could be also done with the POW approach.

The delegates would need a new out of band way to communicate.  A lot of complexity.  If you use information in the blocks in a deterministic manner to create captcha (like would be required AFAIK), then an actor could just read the source of the captcha and plow through them. 

POW was originally created to fight email spam.  So we're not doing anything revolutionary.
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Offline alphaBar

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Re: Using Proof of Waste for Account Registration
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2014, 04:46:09 AM »

I guess captcha's don't work because the entropy source would be the blockchain and thus someone could hack around it and spam the network ?

If delegates can be trusted to generate captchas, we could do cool things like adjusting captcha difficulty based on velocity of registrations.
But that could be also done with the POW approach.

This is very smart (using delegates to register users).

 

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