Official Announcement for BitShares PLAY Allocation

[xeroc]

Hi I'm new to this BTS stuff. Do I just need to have BTS in my wallet to get the BTS Play?

Yepp .. just keep them until the snapshot on 2014-12-08

[koromochii]

Hi I'm new to this BTS stuff. Do I just need to have BTS in my wallet to get the BTS Play?

[merockstar]

I can excuse only the too big to sell their entire position in reasonable time...
For the rest of the post November 5th PTS holders - they can go to hell, if they expect future share drops.

[disclaimer] One man's opinion only. Mine.

PS sorry for posting partially off topic.

I think I might agree with that if they had more than two weeks notice.

[fuzzy]

Is vested balance included in the snapshot? (I guess it is..)

yes. but please hackerfish, correct me if i'm wrong ;)

[clayop]

Is vested balance included in the snapshot? (I guess it is..)

[HackFisher]

Market orders and collateral on market will also be honored too, the allocation to collateral will be divided between long and short according to current price feed.

this means bitUSD is being share-dropped on? unlike, with sharedrop on BTS or PTS, bitUSD can be sold after snapshot for same value it is purchased for. it should be close to zero expense. and also additional benefit 1 bitUSD = 1.5 bitUSD worth of bitshares to be sharedropped on. crowd sale will raise less funds I think if people can just get playshares this way.

For 1x BitUSD, there are 3x BTS collateral, 3x BTS and -1x USD for short, 1x USD for long.

The long(BitUSD) will get 1x USD valued PLS whatever they are going to sell or buy(using 1x BTS to exchange).

[ag]

Market orders and collateral on market will also be honored too, the allocation to collateral will be divided between long and short according to current price feed.

this means bitUSD is being share-dropped on? unlike, with sharedrop on BTS or PTS, bitUSD can be sold after snapshot for same value it is purchased for. it should be close to zero expense. and also additional benefit 1 bitUSD = 1.5 bitUSD worth of bitshares to be sharedropped on. crowd sale will raise less funds I think if people can just get playshares this way.

[HackFisher]

AGS was used to fund the "life-giving" grant to PLAY ...how could it not get the larger allocation for which BM is advocates?  Doing so is simply the fairest option there is and would be respectful of those who made it possible for you to pursue your dream.

Hackerfish...please directly address why you do not support BM's, and many others, strong belief that PLAY allocation SHOULD more handsomely reward AGS over BTS.  THANK YOU.

Most members in our team oppose further change, that's one of the reason.
They are the people who make PLAY real, I would like to follow their concerns.

But you can still join delulo's poll, the result will be decided by the poll.

[santaclause102]

AGS was used to fund the "life-giving" grant to PLAY ...how could it not get the larger allocation for which BM is advocates?  Doing so is simply the fairest option there is and would be respectful of those who made it possible for you to pursue your dream.

Hackerfish...please directly address why you do not support BM's, and many others, strong belief that PLAY allocation SHOULD more handsomely reward AGS over BTS.  THANK YOU.

Check out https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11412.0

[TanFan]

AGS was used to fund the "life-giving" grant to PLAY ...how could it not get the larger allocation for which BM is advocates?  Doing so is simply the fairest option there is and would be respectful of those who made it possible for you to pursue your dream.

Hackerfish...please directly address why you do not support BM's, and many others, strong belief that PLAY allocation SHOULD more handsomely reward AGS over BTS.  THANK YOU.

[kuwaitee]

When snapshotting Play you should allocate collateral between shorts and longs based upon the price feed.

I also feel that AGS/PTS deserve more than BTS simply because AGS was used to fund your grant Hack Fisher.    So I would reverse the allocation if it were up to me.  10% BTS and 40% AGS/PTS.

I would also not do a pre-sale of any form.  Launch and fund with dilution.

That said I am just one opinion of many so do what you think is best.

I also support not to do crowdsale to avoid any legal issues.

I also support above post.

[CLains]

Can BTS that is locked up in a margin order be included in the snapshot? My gut tells me, probably not. Unless you were to take the initial BTS put up as collateral from each side of the trade?

If not, will BTS locked up in orders as collateral be excluded from the total supply the 35% allocation is honoring?

yes, as you described, market orders will not be included, the exactly definition would be the balance records in balance db (the balance you see in your wallet).

HackFisher... all stake regardless of where it is located should be considered.   If you need a script to dump it out for you that can be arranged.    Lets not make this complicated.

Yes, that's already been changed, market orders will be honored.

Awesome!  +5%

[HackFisher]

Can BTS that is locked up in a margin order be included in the snapshot? My gut tells me, probably not. Unless you were to take the initial BTS put up as collateral from each side of the trade?

If not, will BTS locked up in orders as collateral be excluded from the total supply the 35% allocation is honoring?

yes, as you described, market orders will not be included, the exactly definition would be the balance records in balance db (the balance you see in your wallet).

HackFisher... all stake regardless of where it is located should be considered.   If you need a script to dump it out for you that can be arranged.    Lets not make this complicated.

Yes, that's already been changed, market orders will be honored.

[bytemaster]

Can BTS that is locked up in a margin order be included in the snapshot? My gut tells me, probably not. Unless you were to take the initial BTS put up as collateral from each side of the trade?

If not, will BTS locked up in orders as collateral be excluded from the total supply the 35% allocation is honoring?

yes, as you described, market orders will not be included, the exactly definition would be the balance records in balance db (the balance you see in your wallet).

HackFisher... all stake regardless of where it is located should be considered.   If you need a script to dump it out for you that can be arranged.    Lets not make this complicated.

[zerosum]

When snapshotting Play you should allocate collateral between shorts and longs based upon the price feed.

I also feel that AGS/PTS deserve more than BTS simply because AGS was used to fund your grant Hack Fisher.    So I would reverse the allocation if it were up to me.  10% BTS and 40% AGS/PTS.

I would also not do a pre-sale of any form.  Launch and fund with dilution.

That said I am just one opinion of many so do what you think is best.

Actually the precise formula should be:
BBS holding per snapshot purposes = Total collateral + Total hold in the account + Total BTS in open orders


Giving new shares to holders of the product (bitUSD), as apposed to the shareholders of the company, those not make much sense in my world.

[clayop]

When snapshotting Play you should allocate collateral between shorts and longs based upon the price feed.

I also feel that AGS/PTS deserve more than BTS simply because AGS was used to fund your grant Hack Fisher.    So I would reverse the allocation if it were up to me.  10% BTS and 40% AGS/PTS.

I would also not do a pre-sale of any form.  Launch and fund with dilution.

That said I am just one opinion of many so do what you think is best.

I also support not to do crowdsale to avoid any legal issues.

[kuwaitee]

 8)10% BTS and 40% AGS/PTS. 8) +5%

[sumantso]

When snapshotting Play you should allocate collateral between shorts and longs based upon the price feed.

I also feel that AGS/PTS deserve more than BTS simply because AGS was used to fund your grant Hack Fisher.    So I would reverse the allocation if it were up to me.  10% BTS and 40% AGS/PTS.

I would also not do a pre-sale of any form.  Launch and fund with dilution.

That said I am just one opinion of many so do what you think is best.

With a 14 day PTS snapshot notice, which didn't happen.

I sold PTS and bought BTSX before snapshot. If the allocation is reversed AND there is no pre-sale then it would mean I wouldn't be able to get a decent amount. Normally I would've bought PTS to gain a stake but that window was squeezed with a 5 day notice.

[HackFisher]

I assume that if we haven't yet converted our BTS from the Feb 28 PTS/AGS snapshot that they will still be allocated in PLAY.  Similar to DNS and VOTE.  Is this correct?

Do you mean claim? make no different.

[kingslanding]

I assume that if we haven't yet converted our BTS from the Feb 28 PTS/AGS snapshot that they will still be allocated in PLAY.  Similar to DNS and VOTE.  Is this correct? 

[CLains]

I also feel that AGS/PTS deserve more than BTS simply because AGS was used to fund your grant Hack Fisher.    So I would reverse the allocation if it were up to me.  10% BTS and 40% AGS/PTS.

+5%

[bytemaster]

When snapshotting Play you should allocate collateral between shorts and longs based upon the price feed.

I also feel that AGS/PTS deserve more than BTS simply because AGS was used to fund your grant Hack Fisher.    So I would reverse the allocation if it were up to me.  10% BTS and 40% AGS/PTS.

I would also not do a pre-sale of any form.  Launch and fund with dilution.

That said I am just one opinion of many so do what you think is best.

[robrigo]

Can BTS that is locked up in a margin order be included in the snapshot? My gut tells me, probably not. Unless you were to take the initial BTS put up as collateral from each side of the trade?

If not, will BTS locked up in orders as collateral be excluded from the total supply the 35% allocation is honoring?

yes, as you described, market orders will not be included, the exactly definition would be the balance records in balance db (the balance you see in your wallet).

This will kill the market.

We are currently evaluating this, and after a few tests, we may honor the market orders (_ask_db, _bid_db, _short_odb, _collateral_db) if the tests showing that it's OK to do so.

Thanks for addressing this question HackFisher. As was mentioned, snapshotting BTS in orders will help keep open orders on the BTS market during the snapshot. So it is a wise decision to find a solution for us early adopters that like to play in the market.

Either way, I am looking forward to seeing what is possible with the Play DAC. You have my support!

[fuzzy]

I find this allocation to be ridiculous. Post Feb 28 holders are supposed to be rewarded for making much of this possible. Instead Btsx gets another huge allocation. Of course Hack fisher can do whatever he wants. But it is absurd in my opinion.

Here godzirra goes again..! From the ocean you can see his monstrous frame rise steadily, pools of water rushing down his scales like whitewater down a mountain pass...as he treads into the shores of bitshares playland.  He is looking for a million points...a record even his mother never achieved.  Men=10, women=15, children and elderly=20.  Buildings=400, Key infrastructure=1500.  Go our little angry lizard go! :D

I think godzirra has a valid point I also made before here!
Someone might have donated after feb 28th to AGS and gets close to nothing although he contributed the most to PLAY in terms of funding. Getting BTSX holders behind PLAY makes sense too but why should they get so much more than AGS/PTS without having contributed to funding?

simply trying to add some humor to the discussion...please everyone, try not to take this post as an attack on godzirra.  His alias just makes me want to make jokes with it.  Now I'll shut up and let the substantive arguments take place. :)

( disclosure:  I donated the majority of my AGS donations after the feb 28th snapshot.  I do recognize, however, that this is not a simple matter and fully expect things will not always work out perfectly in my favor.  This is fine to me as long as the developer seems to be trying his/her best to make things fair. It is not like we have a text book of best practices to follow...though discussions like these will likely be used to establish the precedence for such practices! )

[天籁]

Can BTS that is locked up in a margin order be included in the snapshot? My gut tells me, probably not. Unless you were to take the initial BTS put up as collateral from each side of the trade?

If not, will BTS locked up in orders as collateral be excluded from the total supply the 35% allocation is honoring?

yes, as you described, market orders will not be included, the exactly definition would be the balance records in balance db (the balance you see in your wallet).

This will kill the market.

We are currently evaluating this, and after a few tests, we may honor the market orders (_ask_db, _bid_db, _short_odb, _collateral_db) if the tests showing that it's OK to do so.

+5% +5% +5% +5% +5%

[kuwaitee]

I find this allocation to be ridiculous. Post Feb 28 holders are supposed to be rewarded for making much of this possible. Instead Btsx gets another huge allocation. Of course Hack fisher can do whatever he wants. But it is absurd in my opinion.

Here godzirra goes again..! From the ocean you can see his monstrous frame rise steadily, pools of water rushing down his scales like whitewater down a mountain pass...as he treads into the shores of bitshares playland.  He is looking for a million points...a record even his mother never achieved.  Men=10, women=15, children and elderly=20.  Buildings=400, Key infrastructure=1500.  Go our little angry lizard go! :D

I think godzirra has a valid point I also made before here!
Someone might have donated after feb 28th to AGS and gets close to nothing although he contributed the most to PLAY in terms of funding. Getting BTSX holders behind PLAY makes sense too but why should they get so much more than AGS/PTS without having contributed to funding?

+5% +5% +5% +5% +5% +5%

[santaclause102]

I find this allocation to be ridiculous. Post Feb 28 holders are supposed to be rewarded for making much of this possible. Instead Btsx gets another huge allocation. Of course Hack fisher can do whatever he wants. But it is absurd in my opinion.

Here godzirra goes again..! From the ocean you can see his monstrous frame rise steadily, pools of water rushing down his scales like whitewater down a mountain pass...as he treads into the shores of bitshares playland.  He is looking for a million points...a record even his mother never achieved.  Men=10, women=15, children and elderly=20.  Buildings=400, Key infrastructure=1500.  Go our little angry lizard go! :D

I think godzirra has a valid point I also made before here!
Someone might have donated after feb 28th to AGS and gets close to nothing although he contributed the most to PLAY in terms of funding. Getting BTSX holders behind PLAY makes sense too but why should they get so much more than AGS/PTS without having contributed to funding?

[xeroc]

We are currently evaluating this, and after a few tests, we may honor the market orders (_ask_db, _bid_db, _short_odb, _collateral_db) if the tests showing that it's OK to do so.

awesome news! please do it!

makes ALOT more sense to me

[HackFisher]

Can BTS that is locked up in a margin order be included in the snapshot? My gut tells me, probably not. Unless you were to take the initial BTS put up as collateral from each side of the trade?

If not, will BTS locked up in orders as collateral be excluded from the total supply the 35% allocation is honoring?

yes, as you described, market orders will not be included, the exactly definition would be the balance records in balance db (the balance you see in your wallet).

This will kill the market.

We are currently evaluating this, and after a few tests, we may honor the market orders (_ask_db, _bid_db, _short_odb, _collateral_db) if the tests showing that it's OK to do so.

[天籁]

Can BTS that is locked up in a margin order be included in the snapshot? My gut tells me, probably not. Unless you were to take the initial BTS put up as collateral from each side of the trade?

If not, will BTS locked up in orders as collateral be excluded from the total supply the 35% allocation is honoring?

yes, as you described, market orders will not be included, the exactly definition would be the balance records in balance db (the balance you see in your wallet).

This will kill the market.

[天籁]

Can BTS that is locked up in a margin order be included in the snapshot? My gut tells me, probably not. Unless you were to take the initial BTS put up as collateral from each side of the trade?

If not, will BTS locked up in orders as collateral be excluded from the total supply the 35% allocation is honoring?

yes, as you described, market orders will not be included, the exactly definition would be the balance records in balance db (the balance you see in your wallet).

I don't see the technical reason why it has to be this way. Why couldn't BTS held in collateral be included as part of the snapshot and claimed in the new DAC using a signature from the same key that allows the BTS to be unlocked from collateral or open orders (the signatures on transactions that are authorized either to cancel an open order to sell BTS or short a BitAsset, or to cover a short position)?

+5%

[arhag]

Can BTS that is locked up in a margin order be included in the snapshot? My gut tells me, probably not. Unless you were to take the initial BTS put up as collateral from each side of the trade?

If not, will BTS locked up in orders as collateral be excluded from the total supply the 35% allocation is honoring?

yes, as you described, market orders will not be included, the exactly definition would be the balance records in balance db (the balance you see in your wallet).

I don't see the technical reason why it has to be this way. Why couldn't BTS held in collateral be included as part of the snapshot and claimed in the new DAC using a signature from the same key that allows the BTS to be unlocked from collateral or open orders (the signatures on transactions that are authorized either to cancel an open order to sell BTS or short a BitAsset, or to cover a short position)?

[Riverhead]

If only we could come up with a token that'd only be used for snapshots to the community 8)

Sorry, couldn't resist lol.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

[zerosum]

Can BTS that is locked up in a margin order be included in the snapshot? My gut tells me, probably not. Unless you were to take the initial BTS put up as collateral from each side of the trade?

If not, will BTS locked up in orders as collateral be excluded from the total supply the 35% allocation is honoring?

yes, as you described, market orders will not be included, the exactly definition would be the balance records in balance db (the balance you see in your wallet).

Now THAT SUCKS!

Big Time!

I have 70% of my BTSX, in collateral!

So I am no good for share drop because I am too bullish on the whole system ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

F**k!

[HackFisher]

Can BTS that is locked up in a margin order be included in the snapshot? My gut tells me, probably not. Unless you were to take the initial BTS put up as collateral from each side of the trade?

If not, will BTS locked up in orders as collateral be excluded from the total supply the 35% allocation is honoring?

yes, as you described, market orders will not be included, the exactly definition would be the balance records in balance db (the balance you see in your wallet).

[Update] The market orders and collaterals will be allocated with PLS.

[HackFisher]

Initial and maximum total supply is 2 billion.

1. BTS holders 35%
The block to take the snapshot on BTS undecided, BTS being the SuperDAC after the merger. The number of the block will be published after BTS being launched.
To simplify this, the block the merge happening is preferred to be the one BitShares PLAY honoring, but this depend on the details plan from BTS, we need to get the exact snapshot time so that we can inform the exchanges to take snapshot too.

2. AGS holders 10%

3. PTS holders 10%
The block to take the snapshot on PTS is on November 5, 2014. This is also the anniversary snapshot for both BTS and PLAY.

4. Crowd Saling 20%
The start time and details will be announced later, please stay tuned.

5. Development and Marketing 15%
Long-term development, including a part to cover costs in pre-launch period.

6. Reserved Funds 10%
Reserved fund is for specific purposes including Faucet, Business Development, Game Incubation, long-term ecosystem building. Reserved Fund will be locked on initial launch, and will be linear unlocked monthly after launch in 1 year.

Please refer http://bitsharesplayfoundation.org/ for details.

Trying to work out what where I am losing out on anything, so will be back with a long list of complaints soon :P

1. Still unhappy at the 5 day announcement of PTS snapshot.
2. .... (thinking)

Seriously though, reasonably fair suggestion considering the complicated landscape.

Sorry about the 5 day ahead announcement, considering that the exchange will unlist the PTS, November 5th would be the last suitable time for the snapshot.

[robrigo]

Can BTS that is locked up in a margin order be included in the snapshot? My gut tells me, probably not. Unless you were to take the initial BTS put up as collateral from each side of the trade?

If not, will BTS locked up in orders as collateral be excluded from the total supply the 35% allocation is honoring?

[fuzzy]

I find this allocation to be ridiculous. Post Feb 28 holders are supposed to be rewarded for making much of this possible. Instead Btsx gets another huge allocation. Of course Hack fisher can do whatever he wants. But it is absurd in my opinion.

Here godzirra goes again..! From the ocean you can see his monstrous frame rise steadily, pools of water rushing down his scales like whitewater down a mountain pass...as he treads into the shores of bitshares playland.  He is looking for a million points...a record even his mother never achieved.  Men=10, women=15, children and elderly=20.  Buildings=400, Key infrastructure=1500.  Go our little angry lizard go! :D

[godzirra]

I find this allocation to be ridiculous. Post Feb 28 holders are supposed to be rewarded for making much of this possible. Instead Btsx gets another huge allocation. Of course Hack fisher can do whatever he wants. But it is absurd in my opinion.

[Pheonike]

Spelled platform wrong on the bitsharesplayfoundation.org site.   Under the Draw the Future Section.

[Ander]

Thank you for allocating to BTS as well!  This is excellent news. 

I'm looking forward to PLAY, love the ideas. :)

[islandking]

When is the estimated time after the merge when you will take the snapshot? Will you make an announcement so that we can move the BTS into our wallets and off of exchanges?

[Riverhead]

I hope I made my point clear - not a native speaker...

Your point is well made.

[islandking]

 +5% Looking forward to the launch :)

[sumantso]

Initial and maximum total supply is 2 billion.

1. BTS holders 35%
The block to take the snapshot on BTS undecided, BTS being the SuperDAC after the merger. The number of the block will be published after BTS being launched.
To simplify this, the block the merge happening is preferred to be the one BitShares PLAY honoring, but this depend on the details plan from BTS, we need to get the exact snapshot time so that we can inform the exchanges to take snapshot too.

2. AGS holders 10%

3. PTS holders 10%
The block to take the snapshot on PTS is on November 5, 2014. This is also the anniversary snapshot for both BTS and PLAY.

4. Crowd Saling 20%
The start time and details will be announced later, please stay tuned.

5. Development and Marketing 15%
Long-term development, including a part to cover costs in pre-launch period.

6. Reserved Funds 10%
Reserved fund is for specific purposes including Faucet, Business Development, Game Incubation, long-term ecosystem building. Reserved Fund will be locked on initial launch, and will be linear unlocked monthly after launch in 1 year.

Please refer http://bitsharesplayfoundation.org/ for details.

Trying to work out what where I am losing out on anything, so will be back with a long list of complaints soon :P

1. Still unhappy at the 5 day announcement of PTS snapshot.
2. .... (thinking)

Seriously though, reasonably fair suggestion considering the complicated landscape.

[lakerta06]

Your opinion seems to be shared by a number of people who used to promote and stand behind the concept of PTS. A lot of people sold their PTS because they thought, for whatever reason, the social contract transferred to BTS.

You are right, social contract did not necessarily transfer to BTS, however, the probability of any "new" profitable DAC coming out that honors the social contract essentialy became near zero. I3 will not be developing a new DAC in near future and MUSIC does not count because it was already snapshotted.

I blame the term "merger" for the confusion. There wasn't a merger.Nothing was bought or sold. If Pepsi share dropped 10:1 Pepsi:Coke shares on all holders of Coke stock would anyone think that Pepsi just bought out Coke, or the value of Coke? No, they'd say: Sweet - thanks for the free shares.

In the case of Coke, Coke would still be functional, still producing value and giving dividends. It would still be profitable. There would be no value transfer from Coke to Pepsi. However, in the case of PTS there is a value transfer: probable earnings from future developments.

I hope I made my point clear - not a native speaker...

[Riverhead]

I can excuse only the too big to sell their entire position in reasonable time...
For the rest of the post November 5th PTS holders - they can go to hell, if they expect future share drops.

[disclaimer] One man's opinion only. Mine.

Your opinion seems to be shared by a number of people who used to promote and stand behind the concept of PTS. A lot of people sold their PTS because they thought, for whatever reason, the social contract transferred to BTS.

I blame the term "merger" for the confusion. There wasn't a merger.Nothing was bought or sold. If Pepsi share dropped 10:1 Pepsi:Coke shares on all holders of Coke stock would anyone think that Pepsi just bought out Coke, or the value of Coke? No, they'd say: Sweet - thanks for the free shares.

[inarizushi]

Hey guys, here are free shares in a potentially billionaire company !

What do ? Grumble and complain that you should have had more ! Crazy.

[amencon]

Sounds fair enough to me, thanks HackFisher.

[cass]

 +5%

[fuzzy]

+5% for this allocation.

Anything you do you're going to have a group of super happy people, a group of satisfied people, and a group that thinks their getting screwed. Just have to put your stake in the ground :).

Looking forward to PLAY.

Amen riverhead.  What is cool to me about this entire ecosystem is that no matter which path a dev chooses, he or she will likely frustrate some...creating a potential "in" for competitors.  So over time you will continue to see more competitors enter the scene fighting over the invested demographics by sharedropping on those who feel like they are the ones who "got screwed". 

This is a stark contrast to Bitcoin's Pump and Dump schemes where devs are incentivized to create many clones with small feature sets and force people who want to potentially hit it big to buy into potential scams (of which 95%+ probably are) with the only token of somewhat-proven value.

[Riverhead]

+5% for this allocation.

Anything you do you're going to have a group of super happy people, a group of satisfied people, and a group that thinks they're getting screwed. Just have to put your stake in the ground :).

Looking forward to PLAY.

[HackFisher]

Please refer http://bitsharesplayfoundation.org/ for details.

I don't think the subscription form at the bottom of the page is working. When trying to submit, the email field gets highlighted in red.

Thanks, we'll fix this ASAP.

[Overthetop]

 +5% ,For the Allocation .  8)

[joele]

What about those BTS in the Market pending orders? does it count? otherwise we need to cancel those orders before snapshot.

[roadscape]

Please refer http://bitsharesplayfoundation.org/ for details.

I don't think the subscription form at the bottom of the page is working. When trying to submit, the email field gets highlighted in red.

[Stan]

Ah, I get your point. The reason make sense, but I still think it's better to avoid any further change, since BTS are merging AGS/PTS and want to give it an end. I thought The AGS/PTS contributions are already well evaluated by being merged to BTS, and the 10/10 AGS/PTS is an extra reward to PTSer/AGSer's support to BitShares DACs. I don't even clear whether third party DACs are still required to honor AGS/PTS, but PLAY do.

+5%

Stan has made posts stating that they invite and fully expect 3rd parties will honor PTS/AGS holders as a means of gaining more traction.  I am of the belief that this will also be the case.  Some of the PTS/AGS holders will be very frustrated that they will no longer receive sharedrops from BTS...which will create a pretty big divide for some.  Many who want to compete in this space will see this divide as an opportunity and will see a great opportunity in sharedropping on them.  Why?  Because PTS/AGS holders were who composed the core community that helped bring BitShares the second largest community in crypto--despite a practical media blackout that BitShares had to endure from the Proof of Waste (PoW) community.

You have to admit that the demographic that continues to hold PTS is the most loyal of the loyal and likely to be the most grateful of the grateful.  An awfully compelling target for a developer looking for a group of DAC-savvy people who will not dump come hell or high water.

[zerosum]

Ah, I get your point. The reason make sense, but I still think it's better to avoid any further change, since BTS are merging AGS/PTS and want to give it an end. I thought The AGS/PTS contributions are already well evaluated by being merged to BTS, and the 10/10 AGS/PTS is an extra reward to PTSer/AGSer's support to BitShares DACs. I don't even clear whether third party DACs are still required to honor AGS/PTS, but PLAY do.

+5%

Stan has made posts stating that they invite and fully expect 3rd parties will honor PTS/AGS holders as a means of gaining more traction.  I am of the belief that this will also be the case.  Some of the PTS/AGS holders will be very frustrated that they will no longer receive sharedrops from BTS...which will create a pretty big divide for some.  Many who want to compete in this space will see this divide as an opportunity and will see a great opportunity in sharedropping on them.  Why?  Because PTS/AGS holders were who composed the core community that helped bring BitShares the second largest community in crypto--despite a practical media blackout that BitShares had to endure from the Proof of Waste (PoW) community.

I can excuse only the too big to sell their entire position in reasonable time...
For the rest of the post November 5th PTS holders - they can go to hell, if they expect future share drops.

[disclaimer] One man's opinion only. Mine.

PS sorry for posting partially off topic.

[fuzzy]

Ah, I get your point. The reason make sense, but I still think it's better to avoid any further change, since BTS are merging AGS/PTS and want to give it an end. I thought The AGS/PTS contributions are already well evaluated by being merged to BTS, and the 10/10 AGS/PTS is an extra reward to PTSer/AGSer's support to BitShares DACs. I don't even clear whether third party DACs are still required to honor AGS/PTS, but PLAY do.

+5%

Stan has made posts stating that they invite and fully expect 3rd parties will honor PTS/AGS holders as a means of gaining more traction.  I am of the belief that this will also be the case.  Some of the PTS/AGS holders will be very frustrated that they will no longer receive sharedrops from BTS...which will create a pretty big divide for some.  Many who want to compete in this space will see this divide as an opportunity and will see a great opportunity in sharedropping on them.  Why?  Because PTS/AGS holders were who composed the core community that helped bring BitShares the second largest community in crypto--despite a practical media blackout that BitShares had to endure from the Proof of Waste (PoW) community.

[biophil]

I get snapshot from my funds that will be vesting in BTS as well?

Haha, this will get complicated.

Scenario:

I held PTS on Nov 5. I got PLAY and BTS from these PTS.

Then I get more PLAY from the BTS that I got from my PTS on Nov 5.

So holding PTS on Nov 5 was a double bonus because those PTS are effectively being snapshotted twice. Nice. :)

[CLains]

I get snapshot from my funds that will be vesting in BTS as well?

[feedthemcake]

Ah, I get your point. The reason make sense, but I still think it's better to avoid any further change, since BTS are merging AGS/PTS and want to give it an end. I thought The AGS/PTS contributions are already well evaluated by being merged to BTS, and the 10/10 AGS/PTS is an extra reward to PTSer/AGSer's support to BitShares DACs. I don't even clear whether third party DACs are still required to honor AGS/PTS, but PLAY do.

+5%

[GaltReport]

 +5% sounds good. You have my support.

[HackFisher]

Given that PLAY will have its own chain...
I understand that BTS has the bigger network effect but is 10/10 AGS/PTS and 35 BTS reasonable? AGS/PTS were the ones that enabled this and AGS/PTS are the proto coins with all the early supporters...

Hackfisher can do as he pleases as long as the social consensus honored. so this allocation is fine. why start complaining? This allocation is totally fine.

Sure he can do what he wants! Support is based on a perception of fairness. It was the same with the Music DAC which also offered 10/10 initially. The discussion after the allocation announcement in the end lead to a better allocation. Discussion (not complaining) is never bad.

As for me: I will support the PLAY DAC ANYWAY but I would find it more "fair" to have more for AGS/PTS since AGS/PTS contributed something of value (initial funding for the toolkit).

I can understand the people who held AGS/PTS but already sold BTSX might have concerns like you. But as soon as it's the BTS holder now are supporting the current codebase of BTS/BTSX, or toolkit, and PLAY is forking that codebase in some sense, so I think it is not a bad choice. And I was involved in BTSX to some extent, play will be more successful with support from BTS community members, they are holding here at least.

For Play, it will have a more wide distribution.

I did not sell any BTSX. The reason I brought it up is that there is a difference between the AGS holders that were honored by BTSX (pre Feb28 AGS donators) and all AGS donators (before and after Feb28).

Ah, I get your point. The reason make sense, but I still think it's better to avoid any further change, since BTS are merging AGS/PTS and want to give it an end. I thought The AGS/PTS contributions are already well evaluated by being merged to BTS, and the 10/10 AGS/PTS is an extra reward to PTSer/AGSer's support to BitShares DACs. I don't even clear whether third party DACs are still required to honor AGS/PTS, but PLAY do.

[santaclause102]

Given that PLAY will have its own chain...
I understand that BTS has the bigger network effect but is 10/10 AGS/PTS and 35 BTS reasonable? AGS/PTS were the ones that enabled this and AGS/PTS are the proto coins with all the early supporters...

Hackfisher can do as he pleases as long as the social consensus honored. so this allocation is fine. why start complaining? This allocation is totally fine.

Sure he can do what he wants! Support is based on a perception of fairness. It was the same with the Music DAC which also offered 10/10 initially. The discussion after the allocation announcement in the end lead to a better allocation. Discussion (not complaining) is never bad.

As for me: I will support the PLAY DAC ANYWAY but I would find it more "fair" to have more for AGS/PTS since AGS/PTS contributed something of value (initial funding for the toolkit).

I can understand the people who held AGS/PTS but already sold BTSX might have concerns like you. But as soon as it's the BTS holder now are supporting the current codebase of BTS/BTSX, or toolkit, and PLAY is forking that codebase in some sense, so I think it is not a bad choice. And I was involved in BTSX to some extent, play will be more successful with support from BTS community members, they are holding here at least.

For Play, it will have a more wide distribution.

I did not sell any BTSX. The reason I brought it up is that there is a difference between the AGS holders that were honored by BTSX (pre Feb28 AGS donators) and all AGS donators (before and after Feb28).....and most of the development funds came from after feb28th donations.

[HackFisher]

Given that PLAY will have its own chain...
I understand that BTS has the bigger network effect but is 10/10 AGS/PTS and 35 BTS reasonable? AGS/PTS were the ones that enabled this and AGS/PTS are the proto coins with all the early supporters...

Hackfisher can do as he pleases as long as the social consensus honored. so this allocation is fine. why start complaining? This allocation is totally fine.

Sure he can do what he wants! Support is based on a perception of fairness. It was the same with the Music DAC which also offered 10/10 initially. The discussion after the allocation announcement in the end lead to a better allocation. Discussion (not complaining) is never bad.

As for me: I will support the PLAY DAC ANYWAY but I would find it more "fair" to have more for AGS/PTS since AGS/PTS contributed something of value (initial funding for the toolkit).

I can understand the people who held AGS/PTS but already sold BTSX might have concerns like you. But as soon as it's the BTS holder now are supporting the current codebase of BTS/BTSX, or toolkit, and PLAY is forking that codebase in some sense, so I think it is not a bad choice. And I was involved in BTSX to some extent, play will be more successful with support from BTS community members, they are holding here at least.

For Play, it will have a more wide distribution.

[graffenwalder]

Given that PLAY will have its own chain...
I understand that BTS has the bigger network effect but is 10/10 AGS/PTS and 35 BTS reasonable? AGS/PTS were the ones that enabled this and AGS/PTS are the proto coins with all the early supporters...

Hackfisher can do as he pleases as long as the social consensus honored. so this allocation is fine. why start complaining? This allocation is totally fine.

Sure he can do what he wants! Support is based on a perception of fairness. It was the same with the Music DAC which also offered 10/10 initially. The discussion after the allocation announcement in the end lead to a better allocation. Discussion (not complaining) is never bad.

As for me: I will support the PLAY DAC ANYWAY but I would find it more "fair" to have more for AGS/PTS since AGS/PTS contributed something of value (initial funding for the toolkit).

I think this is fair. 10% was the minimum. Even if you sold all your BTS(x), you're getting more than 10%, because of the 7% sharedrop to AGS/PTS in BTS.

[HackFisher]

Given that PLAY will have its own chain...
I understand that BTS has the bigger network effect but is 10/10 AGS/PTS and 35 BTS reasonable? AGS/PTS were the ones that enabled this and AGS/PTS are the proto coins with all the early supporters...

Since BTSX was honoring AGS/PTS 50/50, so I think this should be fine for AGS/PTS holders.

[santaclause102]

Given that PLAY will have its own chain...
I understand that BTS has the bigger network effect but is 10/10 AGS/PTS and 35 BTS reasonable? AGS/PTS were the ones that enabled this and AGS/PTS are the proto coins with all the early supporters...

Hackfisher can do as he pleases as long as the social consensus honored. so this allocation is fine. why start complaining? This allocation is totally fine.

Sure he can do what he wants! Support is based on a perception of fairness. It was the same with the Music DAC which also offered 10/10 initially. The discussion after the allocation announcement in the end lead to a better allocation. Discussion (not complaining) is never bad.

As for me: I will support the PLAY DAC ANYWAY but I would find it more "fair" to have more for AGS/PTS since AGS/PTS contributed something of value (initial funding for the toolkit). 

[freebit]

 不错，快快合并吧，一起做大做强DACS产业。

[Shentist]

Given that PLAY will have its own chain...
I understand that BTS has the bigger network effect but is 10/10 AGS/PTS and 35 BTS reasonable? AGS/PTS were the ones that enabled this and AGS/PTS are the proto coins with all the early supporters...

Hackfisher can do as he pleases as long as the social consensus honored. so this allocation is fine. why start complaining? This allocation is totally fine.

[santaclause102]

Given that PLAY will have its own chain...
I understand that BTS has the bigger network effect but is 10/10 AGS/PTS and 35 BTS reasonable? AGS/PTS were the ones that enabled this and AGS/PTS are the proto coins with all the early supporters...

[Shentist]

sounds good to me. will help and promote as i can.

[HackFisher]

I could not follow things super closely lately.
Will PLAY be included into the BTS chain?

PLAY will not be included to the BTS chain, but it will honoring/allocate/airdrop to it for the support from BTS.

[santaclause102]

I could not follow things super closely lately.
Will PLAY be included into the BTS chain?

[HackFisher]

Initial and maximum total supply is 2 billion.

1. BTS holders 35%
The block to take the snapshot on BTS undecided, BTS being the SuperDAC after the merger. The number of the block will be published after BTS being launched.
To simplify this, the block the merge happening is preferred to be the one BitShares PLAY honoring, but this depend on the details plan from BTS, we need to get the exact snapshot time so that we can inform the exchanges to take snapshot too.

[Update] Market orders and collateral on market will also be honored too, the allocation to collateral will be divided between long and short according to current price feed.
[Update] Snapshot on BTS will be taken on 2014-12-08, details: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11571.0

2. AGS holders 10%

3. PTS holders 10%
The block to take the snapshot on PTS is on November 5, 2014. This is also the anniversary snapshot for both BTS and PLAY.

4. Product Crowdfunding 20%
The start time and details will be announced later, please stay tuned.

5. Development and Marketing 15%
Long-term development, including a part to cover costs in pre-launch period.

6. Reserved Funds 10%
Reserved fund is for specific purposes including Faucet, Business Development, Game Incubation, long-term ecosystem building. Reserved Fund will be locked on initial launch, and will be linear unlocked monthly after launch in 1 year.

Please refer http://bitsharesplayfoundation.org/ for details.