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Online fluxer555

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Purchasing BitUSD before large sell order
« on: November 08, 2014, 05:01:05 PM »

Let's say I was holding 20MM BTS. I am looking to divest half of it in other crypto. Would it be a smart move to buy BitUSD with 10MM of my BTS, then sell 10MM BTS for BTC, then sell my BitUSD back for BTS? Are people already doing this?
« Last Edit: November 08, 2014, 05:08:34 PM by fluxer555 »

Ggozzo

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Re: Purchasing BitUSD before large sell order
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2014, 05:04:19 PM »
Depends on your average price point of entry for the 20million.

Online fluxer555

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Re: Purchasing BitUSD before large sell order
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2014, 05:07:13 PM »
Well, I'm just thinking that if you move the price down ANY, it's worth it. You can see it as selling your BTS for a better price than what's on the market.

Offline jsidhu

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Re: Purchasing BitUSD before large sell order
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2014, 05:07:48 PM »
Why do you need bitusd if you are only divesting half? I think you would simply sell into bts/btc to get btc then buy your other altcoin
« Last Edit: November 08, 2014, 05:09:31 PM by jsidhu »
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Offline Frodo

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Re: Purchasing BitUSD before large sell order
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2014, 05:08:22 PM »
I guess it makes sense to do it this way if you want to sell such a big amount that it is going to change the price significantly.

EDIT: You might lose a bit when selling bitUSD though, as the liquidity for sell orders is still not the best. So, idk.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2014, 05:17:29 PM by Frodo »

Online fluxer555

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Re: Purchasing BitUSD before large sell order
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2014, 05:09:36 PM »
Why do you need bitusd if you are only divesting half? I think you would simply sell into bts/btc to get btc then buy your other altcoin

Yes. Buying BitUSD with one half, and selling to BTC with the other half. Selling to BTC drops the price, making the BitUSD worth more BTS. I updated the OP to be more clear.

Online fluxer555

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Re: Purchasing BitUSD before large sell order
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2014, 05:17:24 PM »
Right now, you only need to sell 725,094 BTS to move the price back down to 0.00005 BTC (-18%).

What if I had 20MM BTS, used 19MM to purchase BitUSD, and used 1MM to move the price down by 20%?

zerosum

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Re: Purchasing BitUSD before large sell order
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2014, 05:19:14 PM »
You are not the first person having those thought OP-er. Not the first to put them in writing, not even the first to post them on this forum.
Unfortunately no one has reported back of the success of such moves in practice. Please, do so if you try it.

Online fluxer555

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Re: Purchasing BitUSD before large sell order
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2014, 05:19:31 PM »
I guess it makes sense to do it this way if you want to sell such a big amount that it is going to change the price significantly.

EDIT: You might lose a bit when selling bitUSD though, as the liquidity for sell orders is still not the best. So, idk.

So, are you saying that large Market Makers on the BitUSD side with a relative low liquidity on Bter would actually open up the system to manipulation by whales?

Online fluxer555

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Re: Purchasing BitUSD before large sell order
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2014, 05:19:55 PM »
You are not the first person having those thought OP-er. Not the first to put them in writing, not even the first to post them on this forum.
Unfortunately no one has reported back of the success of such moves in practice. Please, do so if you try it.

Perhaps they have incentive to keep quiet...

Offline speedy

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Re: Purchasing BitUSD before large sell order
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2014, 05:20:30 PM »
I am very envious of anyone who holds 20M BTS.

Btw if you want to do market manipulation you have to do it on btc38 - thats where most of the volume is.

Online fluxer555

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Re: Purchasing BitUSD before large sell order
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2014, 05:23:54 PM »
Maybe I'll write a python script that shows how much of a discount (or profit, even) you can make at different volume thresholds at any given moment in time, and link it up to a web page for everyone to see. If I find the time, that is.

Offline Frodo

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Re: Purchasing BitUSD before large sell order
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2014, 05:25:22 PM »
I guess it makes sense to do it this way if you want to sell such a big amount that it is going to change the price significantly.

EDIT: You might lose a bit when selling bitUSD though, as the liquidity for sell orders is still not the best. So, idk.

So, are you saying that large Market Makers on the BitUSD side with a relative low liquidity on Bter would actually open up the system to manipulation by whales?

I'm not quite sure what you mean with liquidity on Bter.

But I think if we had an ideal peg it would make sense to do such moves. As long as the peg isn't as tight you generally will lose when buying and then selling bitUSD.

EDIT: Ahh, you mean liquidity for BTSX on Bter. Well if you want to call a move like this manipulation then I guess it's true.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2014, 05:31:25 PM by Frodo »

Online joele

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Re: Purchasing BitUSD before large sell order
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2014, 05:46:27 PM »
If you do that then you are gambling your 20M bts and you should do it with a bot, because other bots that detect arbitrage opportunity will take advantage of this.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2014, 05:48:07 PM by joele »

 

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