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Offline bitcoinnoisseur

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I know there was a snapshot on 11/5. I know that there will only be BTS. However when I was reading I didn't come across anything warning me that PTS price would plummet fore good and that I should sell them all either before the snapshot and buy BTSX or right after the snapshot. All I read was that I would receive BTS for the PTS in my wallet. Incorrectly and naively I assumed that PTS just wouldn't be traded anymore as it wouldn't exist. I have lost thousands by holding my PTS. Why would anyone hold them and why would anyone buy them after the snapshot? I have to say that this whole thing has become a clusterfuck. Names and shares constantly changing, DAC's existing but being abandoned and becoming worthless, airdrops, conversions and rate changes, wallet files needing to be imported or not imported to get shares etc. I have NO idea what the hell this is all about anymore nor what even the name of this thing is I'm invested in as it constantly changes. So PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE can someone explain to me in somewhat simple terms exactly what is going on. Thank you.

Offline toobox

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well i'm confused too, so i will add my questions here  :)

i have some questions, hope someone can answer them, because i lost complete the overview here.
I was very busy with other tasks, therefore i was not able to do the key import for bitshares dns,
now i am reading, that bitshares dns not even exits anymore.. and also that Protoshares is almost
done or is done... i mean all that happened in the last 4-5 weeks?

my questions:
I. "DNS snapshot was on 5th november, i missed to transfer my keys to the dns-wallet, so for dns my PTS keys are now useless? and i lost my share for the dns->"new bitshares" conversion now?
II. "Is there already a "Vote" wallet and was the snapshot already?
III. "How can i see all private keys which exits in the wallet.dat, because i'm missing one btc-donation for AngelShares, which i can't verify in the blockexplorer"
IV. "is there an overview of what exactly is going on in the bitshare ecosphere..?"

thank you in advance

Offline aloha

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I hope this link will help with some of your questions.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10844.0  October Newsletter - Halloween Edition

Offline bitcoinnoisseur

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I do know that you don't have to worry about not importing your PTS wallet into your DNS wallet. You will get credit for them when BTS is airdropped. I was never even able to setup my KeyID as I needed to go to one of 2 KeyID account faucets that were always empty. Why I would ever have to do that is beyond me but ridiculous nonetheless. N0 one wants to constantly be having to check here and scour through thousands of posts just so they don't get screwed. The few in the know most certainly profit with every single twist while everyone else loses. It seems as there is no direction as everything is constantly changing.

Offline bitcoinnoisseur

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I hope this link will help with some of your questions.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10844.0  October Newsletter - Halloween Edition

I already read that and not only is the whole shares allocation confusing, it doesn't answer my main questions. Why does PTS even still exist? Why would anyone still  hold them? Why would anyone still buy them? Every single person that didn't know or understand they were supposed to drop them like hot potatoes lost massive amounts of money by holding them in their wallet like they thought they were supposed to do. How does anything Bitshares related(PTS, AGS, BTSX, Music, DNS etc) still even exist and be tradeable? If a snapshot was taken and everything converted to BTS then all those shouldn't exist anymore and be worthless.

Offline Ander

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I have lost thousands by holding my PTS.

You have lost nothing.  You are getting BTS approximately equal to the value of PTS you have lost.  Actually, probably more.

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Why would anyone hold them and why would anyone buy them after the snapshot?

They shouldnt, at least until the price has fallen 90%.  Because almost of the value in PTS was in the BTS youre getting.  People buying PTS after Nov 5 dont know what they are doing.

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I have to say that this whole thing has become a clusterfuck.

No, its just that people apparently cannot read the very clear explanations that are being put out by the bitshares team, such as this:
http://bitshares.org/bitshares-reloaded/

Please go there and learn what is going on. :)
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sumantso

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Your logic doesn't make sense. You thought it wouldn't have any value after the snapshot so you held in your wallet and forgot about it. So where exactly are you losing anything? Is it because you could've earned a bit by selling after the snapshot which you didn't? Thats not a loss, more like some gains you've missed.

Offline Ander

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How does anything Bitshares related(PTS, AGS, BTSX, Music, DNS etc) still even exist and be tradeable? If a snapshot was taken and everything converted to BTS then all those shouldn't exist anymore and be worthless.

Music isnt part of the sharedrop to BTS so it is not effected.


Yes, PTS and DNS should be essentially worthless now.  And everyone who had them is getting equivalent or more BTS. 
Yes, the people who understood what was happening had an opportunity to dump a small amount of shares of PTS after the snapshot was taken, and before the price went down.  The people who bought after Nov 5 are being stupid/uninformed.  They should have researched before they bought.

The fact that people do not understand this and are for some reason spending money on PTS and DNS that are now worthless is not the fault of the bitshares devs, who have clearly outlined what is happening.



I should repeat that you probably havent lost any money, because you are getting BTS based on your PTS/etc shares.  Unless you bought after Nov 5.
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Offline hadrian

If you still have PTS there is the possibility of gaining from 3rd party airdrops in the future, as you may be considered part of a valuable demographic. I still have some. I might have sold after the snapshot while the prices were still high, but I was too busy to follow it closely. The prices shouldn't really have stayed so high - it's been suggested that some people forgot to turn off their bots!
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Offline Ander

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So where exactly are you losing anything? Is it because you could've earned a bit by selling after the snapshot which you didn't? Thats not a loss, more like some gains you've missed.

Exactly.  There was a *very small* window for people to dump some PTS for extra value, taking advantage of those who still had buy orders up who didnt understand.  That opportunity is mostly gone now, but thats okay. 
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zerosum

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I hope this link will help with some of your questions.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10844.0  October Newsletter - Halloween Edition

I already read that and not only is the whole shares allocation confusing, it doesn't answer my main questions. Why does PTS even still exist? Why would anyone still  hold them? Why would anyone still buy them? Every single person that didn't know or understand they were supposed to drop them like hot potatoes lost massive amounts of money by holding them in their wallet like they thought they were supposed to do. How does anything Bitshares related(PTS, AGS, BTSX, Music, DNS etc) still even exist and be tradeable? If a snapshot was taken and everything converted to BTS then all those shouldn't exist anymore and be worthless.
Actually it is the total opposite - everybody who knew they (PTS) are  supposed to drop to near zero right after 5th lost a massive amount of money. The one who did not sell their PTS, not only got the new BTS from holding them, but also got a big chunk in the Play DAC - the allocation came after 5th. If that is not enough those same holders can now sell the PTS for significantly more than the 0 value expected...To say nothing that with those proceeds they can now buy more BTS and get even bigger stake in PLAY DAC (as they will snapshot BTS at some point in the future (it is in the future because it is still BTSX around not BTS))


Ignorance is a bliss, should have been created for those PTS holders...
« Last Edit: November 09, 2014, 06:00:35 PM by tonyk2 »

Offline hadrian

@bitcoinnoisseur

Don't worry, I understand your concerns and frustrations, but I don't think you've missed out. All's well that ends well, and I think if you hang on with BitShares you may see a very nice ending!
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Offline bitcoinnoisseur

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Your logic doesn't make sense. You thought it wouldn't have any value after the snapshot so you held in your wallet and forgot about it. So where exactly are you losing anything? Is it because you could've earned a bit by selling after the snapshot which you didn't? Thats not a loss, more like some gains you've missed.

This was not like a snapshot for a new DAC where people were getting in and out of PTS because they knew price would spike before the snapshot and drop after it. This was a snapshot where all shares(PTS, AGS, BTSX, DNS etc.) would be combined into BTS. So how or why would any logic dictate that after this snapshot that any or all of them would still exist and be traded? They should all be worthless as they don't exist anymore. Only BTS does. BTW a gain I missed is exactly equal to a loss. Its called a lost opportunity and that opportunity was lost because only the few people truly in the know, knew exactly what was happening. I most certainly would have dumped every PTS and BTSX I had if i had even an inkling of a clue that I was supposed to. I sure as hell bet you did.

Offline hadrian

Your logic doesn't make sense. You thought it wouldn't have any value after the snapshot so you held in your wallet and forgot about it. So where exactly are you losing anything? Is it because you could've earned a bit by selling after the snapshot which you didn't? Thats not a loss, more like some gains you've missed.

This was not like a snapshot for a new DAC where people were getting in and out of PTS because they knew price would spike before the snapshot and drop after it. This was a snapshot where all shares(PTS, AGS, BTSX, DNS etc.) would be combined into BTS. So how or why would any logic dictate that after this snapshot that any or all of them would still exist and be traded? They should all be worthless as they don't exist anymore. Only BTS does. BTW a gain I missed is exactly equal to a loss. Its called a lost opportunity and that opportunity was lost because only the few people truly in the know, knew exactly what was happening. I most certainly would have dumped every PTS and BTSX I had if i had even an inkling of a clue that I was supposed to. I sure as hell bet you did.

BTSX is one thing you shouldn't dump. There was no snapshot for BTSX, they will become BTS after a software upgrade later this month.
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Offline Ander

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They should all be worthless as they don't exist anymore.

There are people out there who want them to exist.  for example, alphaBar is pushing his new PTS based DPoS coin.




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I most certainly would have dumped every PTS and BTSX I had if i had even an inkling of a clue that I was supposed to. I sure as hell bet you did.

Yes, everyone who held PTS shouldve dumped it immediately after snapshot while the price was high.  Basically a couple people managed to do this and they benefitted.  But everyone else didnt lose.  Everyone else stayed the same in terms of their value.  It doesnt hurt you that you didnt happen to be the lucky one.

I personally doubled my BTSX holdings after the price drop, a week ago.  I havent sold any and do not plan to until prices rise significantly.
There is no reason to dump BTSX.   
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