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Offline bluebit

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Fantastic Job Bytemaster!!! Escrow Feature
« on: November 12, 2014, 07:40:34 PM »

Looking forward to seeing the escrow feature in the next update :)

https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares/issues/944

Once again great job at adding this!!!

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lzr1900

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Re: Fantastic Job Bytemaster!!! Escrow Feature
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2014, 07:42:03 PM »
wow that will be awesome

Offline Brent.Allsop

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Re: Fantastic Job Bytemaster!!! Escrow Feature
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2014, 07:51:35 PM »
So I'll be able to do this, rather than cold storage, to safely store my millions of BTS?

Who and how will be able to control the voting rights of such shares?

Nice.

« Last Edit: November 12, 2014, 07:53:06 PM by Brent.Allsop »

Offline Riverhead

Re: Fantastic Job Bytemaster!!! Escrow Feature
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2014, 07:55:25 PM »

So I'll be able to do this, rather than cold storage, to safely store my millions of BTS?

Nice.
You mean a cold key as escrow agent? Hmm. I guess it would allow you to view your balance without it being spendable. Interesting.


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Offline Brent.Allsop

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Re: Fantastic Job Bytemaster!!! Escrow Feature
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2014, 08:03:38 PM »

So I'll be able to do this, rather than cold storage, to safely store my millions of BTS?

Nice.
You mean a cold key as escrow agent? Hmm. I guess it would allow you to view your balance without it being spendable. Interesting.


No, I just want to have easier access to my bitshares, so I can vote the shares, and so if I get hit by a bus, or my cold storage key gets destroyed,....   my family/loved ones can still get access to them...

And I want a safer way so if any of my important keys gets  compromised, I won't get my shares stolen.




« Last Edit: November 12, 2014, 08:05:35 PM by Brent.Allsop »

Offline xeroc

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Re: Fantastic Job Bytemaster!!! Escrow Feature
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2014, 08:05:32 PM »
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu powered by ChainSquad GmbH

Offline vikram

Re: Fantastic Job Bytemaster!!! Escrow Feature
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2014, 08:40:36 PM »
Looking forward to seeing the escrow feature in the next update :)

https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares/issues/944

Once again great job at adding this!!!

 +5%

So everyone knows, the GitHub issues are constantly being reorganized--so having this in the next milestone right now does not guarantee it will make the next release.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Fantastic Job Bytemaster!!! Escrow Feature
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2014, 08:53:51 PM »
Escrow balances will not earn yield.
Escrow agents can only divide the funds among the sender/receiver.
Sender can only release to receiver.
Receiver can only release to sender.
Sender & Receiver can divide funds among the sender/receiver

Blockchain support is mostly there (in testing)... wallet support and GUI support is likely a ways off.
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Offline Ander

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Re: Fantastic Job Bytemaster!!! Escrow Feature
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2014, 08:55:35 PM »
Now we just need to copy smart contracts and we can be up 100% like counterparty! ;)
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Offline Rune

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Re: Fantastic Job Bytemaster!!! Escrow Feature
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2014, 11:51:46 PM »
Awesome, this is really useful to have! Can it be used like an (almost) standard 2 of 2 address if an escrow agent simply isn't specified?

Offline toast

Re: Fantastic Job Bytemaster!!! Escrow Feature
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2014, 11:53:09 PM »
2 of 2 is standard multisig which is supported

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Offline arhag

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Re: Fantastic Job Bytemaster!!! Escrow Feature
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2014, 11:33:12 AM »
2 of 2 is standard multisig which is supported...
...on the blockchain but not the client currently. Meaning from the user's perspective it currently pretty much doesn't exist. Sorry but sometimes I get the frustrating (hopefully incorrect?) feeling that important features like multisig, offline transaction signing, and decoupling BTS voting keys from spending keys are being pushed aside for other things that are nice to have but IMHO lower priority (like escrow transactions, voting booth, Turing complete scripts, and frankly even the lightweight client is slightly less priority in my view than multisig/offline transaction signing/decoupling voting keys).


I don't see how this helps with cold storage concerns like some people in this thread are speculating that it does (at least not as long as offline transaction signing does not exist in the client).

The point of the cold storage is to not require the computer, which holds the private key that gives access to the funds, to be made accessible to the internet. Since the client does not currently have offline transaction signing, that means it needs to connect to the internet to broadcast its transaction.

So say you put your BTS wealth into an escrow transaction with three keys you ultimately control (sender key, receiver key, escrow key). The sender key is online because you had to broadcast the transaction to move your BTS into the escrow in the first place using your online client. The receiver and escrow key can initially be offline. But what if you want to get some part of the BTS back into your possession to spend it? Then you are forced to either bring the receiver or escrow key on to an online computer to broadcast the necessary transaction. At that point, if your computer(s) are compromised, an attacker can use the keys to release all of the funds to the sender and then send the sender's now released funds to the attacker. Also even if you succeed at only releasing a partial amount to the sender and the rest to the receiver, what happens when you want to get access to a little bit more? Now you need to bring the receiver key online to move the remaining funds back into a new escrow transaction!

This brings up an interesting question. Does this escrow implementation allow the sender/receiver/escrow accounts to each individually be multisig accounts? Ideally it should. If I am the sender or the receiver, I would ideally want to be able to send large funds to an escrow or receive funds from an escrow from/to my default 2-of-3 multisig address so that I am at no time exposed to theft if my hot client's private key is compromised. Allowing the escrow account to also be multisig adds security benefits there as well but also allows other interesting possibilities like requiring a group of people come to a consensus on how the funds should be divided between sender and receiver. This is not doable in a straightforward manner with a traditional multsig (although it is possible with threshold signatures like in CryptoNote), since you want just the sender and receiver (2 keys) to be able to divide funds between each other without requiring any outside intervention, but you also want to allow the escrow to be a M-of-N multisig (with M > 2) while still making it impossible for just 2 of the N escrow signatures (or 1 signature from either sender/receiver AND 1 of the N escrow signatures) from being enough to divide the funds between sender and receiver. Allowing multisig for the escrow account in this escrow transaction solves this problem. A crude approximation to this solution can be accomplished through traditional multisig by having a (N+M)-of-(3*N) multisig, where the sender holds N of the keys, the receiver holds another N of the keys, the remaining N keys are distributed among the N escrow parties, and of course M <= N is the number escrow parties that need to agree with a particular distribution between sender and receiver. Another (more general and efficient) solution would be to just implement threshold signatures so that each of the N keys in a multisig have a fractional weight associated with them and the transaction is only valid if the sum of only the weights associated to keys with valid signatures attached the transaction is greater than 1.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Fantastic Job Bytemaster!!! Escrow Feature
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2014, 01:00:47 PM »
Off line trx signing infrastructure has been put in place.   

Multi sig is what toast is working on right now.   

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Offline arhag

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Re: Fantastic Job Bytemaster!!! Escrow Feature
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2014, 01:10:41 PM »
Off line trx signing infrastructure has been put in place.   

Multi sig is what toast is working on right now.

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Please don't forget to create a multisig transaction type where the transaction output can be spent like a normal multisig if there are enough signatures, but signature(s) from a subset of the keys (perhaps just one particular key) alone can only change the delegate slate that the BTS balance is voting for but not the multisig addresses of the original transaction. This way a user can update their votes with a hot client but to move their funds they would need to also sign the transaction with their cold storage keys. Bonus points if the same mechanism can also be used to claim yield on BitAssets without exposing all of the keys to move BitAssets to another owner.

Offline Overthetop

Re: Fantastic Job Bytemaster!!! Escrow Feature
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2014, 01:12:46 PM »
Great to see the new functions, great work!
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