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Offline 8bit

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What's the point of keyhotee?
« on: November 30, 2013, 01:17:25 AM »

I already have a bitcoin wallet, and an email client, and and instant messenger, etc... and I can already access these all through one application: my web browser. I understand why decentralization is awesome, but it's really a moot point if no one is using it. So from the perspective of the end user- perhaps the average person who doesn't necessarily have a lot of computer knowhow and isn't necessarily interested in the philosophy of decentralization, what will Keyhotee offer?

Also, I feel like, for Keyhotee to catch on, regardless of how nice it is, it's going to have to get into the browser (maybe not initially, but it has to happen eventually), and it needs to launch with a less silly-sounding name. Are there any plans for web, and is keyhotee a code name or the final name?

EDIT: No disrespect intended. I'm just having trouble wrapping my head around this.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 01:23:03 AM by 8bit »
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Offline Beetle559

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Re: What's the point of keyhotee?
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2013, 01:53:28 AM »
Did you see the video? http://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=14.0

Another point you missed is that it's private, there are no servers for governments to spy on.

Offline NineLives

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Re: What's the point of keyhotee?
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2013, 02:34:33 AM »
I understand your points and they are great points but let me try and simplyfy it for anyone who doesn't quite understand why keyhotee is needed in today's internet world (without jargon).

PRIVACY, SECURITY, FREEDOM..
I work in IT and I know for a fact, NOTHING is private.  You visit a site, your internet provider knows.  You send an email, your internet provider knows.  You download something, yep.. you got it, your provider knows.  If they know, the TAX man knows, and in return, and if needed, the government knows.  Like it or not, your being watched.  Of-course, Unless, you know how to manually encrypt, vpn and setup privacy which is a small task within it self but you still can't hide what you spent from your BANK?

Now, to people like me, this isn't an issue.  I don't do illegal things at all (besides download TV episodes I suppose) but, WHY am I allowing my government and tax man to view what I do?  Why should they see how much money I have and how much TAX they can take?  What if crypto currency was denied through some legislation?  Why should it be ok for ANYONE to see what I do in the privacy of my internet world?

The examples are a bit extreme.  Keyhotee I believe will start off with the essentials, that will then allow lots of developers to help it grow and soon enough, you will have your full freedom..

I hope my theory was correct and please do feel free to correct me.  I'm also learning as we go on :)
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Offline bytemaster

Re: What's the point of keyhotee?
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2013, 02:55:43 AM »
I understand your points and they are great points but let me try and simplyfy it for anyone who doesn't quite understand why keyhotee is needed in today's internet world (without jargon).

PRIVACY, SECURITY, FREEDOM..
I work in IT and I know for a fact, NOTHING is private.  You visit a site, your internet provider knows.  You send an email, your internet provider knows.  You download something, yep.. you got it, your provider knows.  If they know, the TAX man knows, and in return, and if needed, the government knows.  Like it or not, your being watched.  Of-course, Unless, you know how to manually encrypt, vpn and setup privacy which is a small task within it self but you still can't hide what you spent from your BANK?

Now, to people like me, this isn't an issue.  I don't do illegal things at all (besides download TV episodes I suppose) but, WHY am I allowing my government and tax man to view what I do?  Why should they see how much money I have and how much TAX they can take?  What if crypto currency was denied through some legislation?  Why should it be ok for ANYONE to see what I do in the privacy of my internet world?

The examples are a bit extreme.  Keyhotee I believe will start off with the essentials, that will then allow lots of developers to help it grow and soon enough, you will have your full freedom..

I hope my theory was correct and please do feel free to correct me.  I'm also learning as we go on :)

Great response and right on.
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Offline 8bit

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Re: What's the point of keyhotee?
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2013, 11:35:51 AM »
That's all well and good, but the average person just doesn't give a shit about security. How many people use Facebook? How many people use Google instead of StartPage? StartPage offers almost the EXACT experience, and is actually discrete, however, the vast majority of people choose Google instead.
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Offline NineLives

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Re: What's the point of keyhotee?
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2013, 12:46:13 PM »
That's all well and good, but the average person just doesn't give a shit about security. How many people use Facebook? How many people use Google instead of StartPage? StartPage offers almost the EXACT experience, and is actually discrete, however, the vast majority of people choose Google instead.

You miss understand my friend.
You will still be able to use Google and Facebook etc if you choose.  That doesn't change.

Lets talk about the average person:
Once upon a time, there were no torrents.  Before torrents was invented, people in general didn't understand why it was needed when Newsgroups / Usernet or Napster etc was available (I'm going back a few years).  Soon, Napster got sued and was forced to put legal content on.  As I type, Newsgroups / Usernet are going through DMCA shutdown and its very hard to download anything, even TV shows :(

Now torrents is the only real way to get what you want.  Its based on a P2P network with no central servers.  It's an excellent tool.  The government are finding it hard to shut down.  They are making ISP's lock down torrent download sites like PirateBay.  This will go on and on and on until YOU will do what YOUR government wants that allows them in control.

Torrents wasn't needed and now billions rely on it.  And I'm talking about none technical people.  I'm sure you must use it too?

That's ONE example from hundreds and hundreds of unlimited things you can do in your own free space @ Keyhotee that fits your way of life, even if your just a facebook user.

This is going to be another tool, like torrents, that will change the way the Internet is used.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 12:59:34 PM by NineLives »
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Offline 8bit

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Re: What's the point of keyhotee?
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2013, 01:14:11 PM »
Torrents are great, but they didn't catch on because they're good at legal sharing. (though they are) They caught on because they're good at illegal sharing.

However, we already have systems in place for this... GPG encrypted messages and networks like Tor, Freenet, I2P, etc... And at this point, Tor is getting pretty good at what it does. It's reasonably fast, and very easy to use.
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Offline NineLives

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Re: What's the point of keyhotee?
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2013, 01:37:22 PM »
Torrents are great, but they didn't catch on because they're good at legal sharing. (though they are) They caught on because they're good at illegal sharing.

However, we already have systems in place for this... GPG encrypted messages and networks like Tor, Freenet, I2P, etc... And at this point, Tor is getting pretty good at what it does. It's reasonably fast, and very easy to use.

Tor can't stop the government watching how much money you spend?  Or Tor isn't going to stop any official taking your financial assets?

Like I said, torrents is just ONE example and its just scratching the surface.  Tor, Freenet, I2P is the same as any other central server based services.  You really think Tor is going to deny the government access to its logs if needed?  There is NO VPN anonymous service that will truly stop high-end governments from gaining access to your day to day internet activities.

Remember, Keyhotee is on a blockchain.
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Offline 8bit

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Re: What's the point of keyhotee?
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2013, 06:43:51 PM »
Torrents are great, but they didn't catch on because they're good at legal sharing. (though they are) They caught on because they're good at illegal sharing.

However, we already have systems in place for this... GPG encrypted messages and networks like Tor, Freenet, I2P, etc... And at this point, Tor is getting pretty good at what it does. It's reasonably fast, and very easy to use.

Tor can't stop the government watching how much money you spend?  Or Tor isn't going to stop any official taking your financial assets?

No, but bitcoin + mixers can...

Quote
Like I said, torrents is just ONE example and its just scratching the surface.  Tor, Freenet, I2P is the same as any other central server based services.  You really think Tor is going to deny the government access to its logs if needed?  There is NO VPN anonymous service that will truly stop high-end governments from gaining access to your day to day internet activities.

Remember, Keyhotee is on a blockchain.

Tor, Freenet, and I2P are not centralized. Tor is a decentralized network of proxies, Freenet is a decentralized hosting network, and I2P is a protocol for secure friend to friend communications.
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Offline NineLives

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Re: What's the point of keyhotee?
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2013, 10:10:43 PM »
Ohhh god..  Come on dude, you know what I'm about to say:  Let me rephrase..

Tor is an open source company and servers are in different locations (proxies) meaning its NOT IN YOUR control.  Data is stored on them proxies (logs).  Meaning accessible with allot of push if needed.  Which is what I meant above.  Its still central because YOU do not have control!!!

Keyhotee is ON YOUR PC encrypted on a blockchain.  No one can access it but you.  Proxy somewhere vs your control?  Emmmm  which will I pick?

There is no need to install 4 different apps to make your semi freedom function (Tor, Freenet, I2P, Bit wallet).

Again, that is only scratching the surface of the example we spoke of.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 10:19:59 PM by NineLives »
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Offline 8bit

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Re: What's the point of keyhotee?
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2013, 02:24:43 AM »
Ohhh god..  Come on dude, you know what I'm about to say:  Let me rephrase..

Tor is an open source company and servers are in different locations (proxies) meaning its NOT IN YOUR control.  Data is stored on them proxies (logs).  Meaning accessible with allot of push if needed.  Which is what I meant above.  Its still central because YOU do not have control!!!

Keyhotee is ON YOUR PC encrypted on a blockchain.  No one can access it but you.  Proxy somewhere vs your control?  Emmmm  which will I pick?

That is not what 'centralized' means, and Tor is not centralized. Tor is a network of over four thousand decentralized nodes operated by different people all over the world. The idea behind Tor is that logs won't matter because Tor pushes connections through multiple relays. An exit node will be able to tell what the last relay was in a connection, but can not trace the connection back further than that. In order to reveal someone's identity, you would have to compromise every node between the individual and the exit node. To my knowledge, Tor itself has never actually been compromised in practice. Techniques used to take identify Tor users (javascript attacks and personally identifiable information) are not specific to Tor, have nothing to do with Tor itself, and are just as applicable to something like Keyhotee.

Quote
There is no need to install 4 different apps to make your semi freedom function (Tor, Freenet, I2P, Bit wallet).

These are all applications which do (roughly) the same thing. I'm worried Keyhotee is this: http://xkcd.com/927/
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Offline bitcool

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Re: What's the point of keyhotee?
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2013, 07:26:29 PM »
Quote
Also, I feel like, for Keyhotee to catch on, regardless of how nice it is, it's going to have to get into the browser (maybe not initially, but it has to happen eventually)
Pretty sure it will happen naturally if Keyhotee catch some fire.

Offline bytemaster

Re: What's the point of keyhotee?
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2013, 07:27:28 PM »
Or maybe the browser will get into keyhotee. 


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Offline Number 1

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Re: What's the point of keyhotee?
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2013, 07:24:52 AM »
Perhaps I'm missing the point however my understanding was that any PTS sent to a Keyhotee ID address remain the property of the sender. The idea being that they can't be withdrawn or traded elsewhere until Keyhotee launches.
In that way Invictus gets a strong initial following at least until the launch of Keyhotee and those who donate to Keyhotee ID still retain their PTS on the launch of Keyhotee.

Please correct me if I am wrong.
PTS: Pj8UH9ExVidcFd4LKtEgPSrwrtpYhPhug8

Offline bytemaster

Re: What's the point of keyhotee?
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2013, 07:26:13 AM »
Perhaps I'm missing the point however my understanding was that any PTS sent to a Keyhotee ID address remain the property of the sender. The idea being that they can't be withdrawn or traded elsewhere until Keyhotee launches.
In that way Invictus gets a strong initial following at least until the launch of Keyhotee and those who donate to Keyhotee ID still retain their PTS on the launch of Keyhotee.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

It is a donation to the development of Keyhotee. 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

 

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