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zerosum

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Should I even consider running a 100% pay delegate.
« on: November 15, 2014, 07:15:49 AM »

Should I even consider running a 100% pay delegate.

I am testing the waters here, if this proposition is even possible now or ever.

I should be pretty notorious on this forum, so if you do not know me you probably have not dared to say anything remotely controversial... like ever.


Here is the pitch:

My pay -
100% paid delegate, keeping the minimum of BTS at the start. I am making minimum wage in US (the exact number will be calculated at the start of the delegate but something like $7.25/hr or at current rate $1242 mo. / 400 BTS/BTC = 3.105 BTC or 3.105/ 0.0000465  = about 66,775 BTS/mo.)

That amount is after income taxes. Additionally I do not feel qualified enough to run a delegate by myself at an acceptable enough level  (I mean technically),  so I will use the services of somebody else to run the tech part of a delegate for me. For this writing I assume this expense @ 3 times the non-diluted delegate pay-rate. Hopefully this will be less, we will see.

I just want to make one point clear. I expect to be paid the same amount of BTS in the future (after expenses). In other words I will start with the minimum take home wage and expect it to grow as the BTS grows.
 Some development cost is to be expected in some phases of this project.

Services provided -

I intend to run several projects, aimed at benefiting the community by providing information, supporting the market peg and or testing concepts for the benefit of the BTS community at large. The projects I want to start out with are listed below. Most of them require some funding. I intend to provide the funding myself aka use my own funds to run those projects to begin with. Some of the projects will benefit greatly by the support of the community, and for those I will try to provide explanation how this can be achieved.

Lets turn $1,000 into $1,000,000 (or at least 750K).
The idea is discussed at https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11187.msg148176#msg148176
. I will provide the initial funds as well as info on the trades made on a regular basis. It should be fun and will also provide inspiration and keep the moral of smaller stakeholders high.
[additional funding needed $0 to $350] for the whole duration of the project.
[End date - BTS reaching $2.50/piece]

Fast Tight bitUSD Peg
The general idea is described here https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11002.0 . This asset/fund will benefit hugely if implemented on a larger scale, but my effort may be used as proof of concept.
The inner workings of the idea are to keep a call at the peg position and buying underpriced bitUSD and selling them at the peg while providing very tight sell price for willing bitUSD holders. The profitability of this strategy is undetermined in BTS terms (but believed to be profitable) but expected to be fairly profitable in bitUSD terms. Initial funding will be provide by me.
 There will be up to 2 user issued asset for this idea to work:
  • FastbitUSD sold at 1.0075 bitUSD [maintained by me with a sell amount determined by the inner workings of the fund]
  • FastbitUSD bought at $1.00. For all FastbitUSD sold. Paid in BTS!
[It works like this for the customer. The customer has 1 bitUSD. He buys 1 FastbitUSD for 1.0075 bitUSD and sells it immediately for the peg amount of 1 BTS, paid in BTS.]

SUPPORTFastbitUSD
SUPPORTFastbitUSD is an asset for the people that wish to support a tight peg. They donate $1 and receive 1 SUPPORTFastbitUSD badge/asset. If the operations of FastbitUSD are profitable (not guaranteed but expected) all SUPPORTFastbitUSD holders receive distributions as the profits of FastbitUSD, when the bitUSD market grows and matures.

Perpetual Mobile Advertising Fund
The idea is described here:[link]
Generally instead of shorting bitAssets by themselves people donate to this fund. The fund shorts pretty much all of its BTS. It uses some of the  profits from shorting bitAssets to fund out the marketing campaign(s). It is originally described here  [link], but in general any marketing that grows the value of BTS).
The fund will hugely benefit from mass support and DAC wise marketing campaigns needing funding. Until such efforts are found - it will donate the vast majority of its profits to the available marketing  projects as of the time of the distribution)
[The fund will start by not issuing any shares and will only use my personal funds as a proof of concept. It will proceed as by issuing user issued assets for donation purposes, no expectation attached]

Trading bots
I have some ideas. Details might be coming, if the above goes at least semi-smoothly. Let just say that the Fast Tight bitUSD Peg idea above is fair easily converted to code as the trading follows pretty firm rules. This is just the beginning of what I have in mind
.


[disclaimer] The above is just a general statement of my ideas. While I believe all of them to be highly profitable and beneficial, no actually return is promised or guaranteed in any way shape or form]

Thoughts ,comments, and ideas are highly appreciated!
« Last Edit: November 15, 2014, 08:13:03 PM by tonyk2 »

Offline btswildpig

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Re: Should I even consider running a 100% pay delegate.
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2014, 07:28:06 AM »
Can you make more economic value for the system significantly by spending 100% ?


That would be the real question . If so , no matter who you are , you should run it .

If not , even you are Bytemaster , you should not run it .

So , draft a business proposal first .
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline bitmeat

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Re: Should I even consider running a 100% pay delegate.
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2014, 07:42:01 AM »
tonyk could offer to not post anything anymore and thus create value if elected.

zerosum

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Re: Should I even consider running a 100% pay delegate.
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2014, 07:45:28 AM »
tonyk could offer to not post anything anymore and thus create value if elected.

That's the kind of posts I was hoping for!
 +5%

Offline mint chocolate chip

Re: Should I even consider running a 100% pay delegate.
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2014, 08:16:19 AM »

zerosum

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Re: Should I even consider running a 100% pay delegate.
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2014, 08:25:58 AM »
...
Fan of your work, got my vote

Ohh, shudgumbguls.... my past button failed to work apparently...

Offline cube

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Re: Should I even consider running a 100% pay delegate.
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2014, 09:05:27 AM »
tonyk could offer to not post anything anymore and thus create value if elected.

And this forum would have less of the fun.   ;D
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bitcube is a dedicated witness and committe member. Please vote for bitcube.


zerosum

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Re: Should I even consider running a 100% pay delegate.
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2014, 05:48:58 PM »
OP updated with the actual ideas of the kind of services I am interested in providing.

Offline gamey

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Re: Should I even consider running a 100% pay delegate.
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2014, 08:27:56 PM »
There is a real problem with this and putting up the 2 weeks pay.

So for example - you have 4 posters saying yay ! and no one says nay !  So you have to put up a lot of money for the chance to be voted in. One still doesn't know where things stand. It is just putting too much of a burden on legitimate people.

I mean, sure I'll vote for Tony but my stake isn't particularly big. 

The problem is - We're asking people to be paid little, give a lot of their time, and risk sizable money upfront for the chance to do it.  This is a great incentive to keep away scammers but it is also just as much of an incentive to keep away people who might actually provide a lot of value.

Tony is obviously a person very dedicated to Bitshares. He puts a lot of his BTS in collateral and is as active and passionate as anyone. He also seems that he is likely underpaid at whatever he normally does so this is an extra for Bitshares owners. His proposition is a most reasonable one - ASSUMING his peg ideas seem like they should work. AND if we don't think they should work, maybe we can find something better for him to do.

It appears we have taken quite a negative hit on marketcap with the direction things are going, but it is hard to separate out the cause and effect. If we do not take opportunities such as this one then we have shot ourselves in the foot.

Having Tony sit around for what is currently minimum wage and work on things is a positive. If he is willing to take feedback and adjust his approaches then it is even more of a positive.

Edit - I am not trying to say the fund ideas won't work.  I just haven't had enough time to think about them.  I'm not a die-hard market guy so the results of such plans do not really form so readily in my head.  What I am saying that is even if you think those ideas are not the best, then we as a blockchain should work with Tony in some regard.  It would be foolish not to do so.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2014, 08:37:20 PM by gamey »
I speak for myself and only myself.

zerosum

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Re: Should I even consider running a 100% pay delegate.
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2014, 08:44:13 PM »
@gamey Thanks for posting this very thoughtful post of yours. Really appreciated.



I put this thread/OP out here:

First, to see if BM is at all open to considering including (helping with his shares) to vote for delegate performing similar services. To be honest I have not read at all what is his opinion on that. I mean it is pretty obvious that I will sponsor in most likelihood some development work, but it should be also clear that I will not be the one directly doing the coding.

Second, I want to hear opinions about the ideas in general but the important part is I believe they should work and I will do them risking my own money to implement them.
And no the delegate pay will take many, many months to even get close to covering my exposure resulting from testing those ideas of mine. And I consider most of them (if they work, and they should) bringing pretty direct benefits to BTS, as well as other indirect benefits to the BTS community.

julian1

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Re: Should I even consider running a 100% pay delegate.
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2014, 08:47:31 PM »
Quote
Lets turn $1,000 into $1,000,000 (or at least 750K).

Would this entail writing a blog or something, to spread the word? In my mind if this goal was achieved, it would be it's own reward and wouldn't need dipping into delegate funding.

Quote
Fast Tight bitUSD Peg

Again, being a market maker and providing liquidity should be a profitable activity by itself. It's the profit opportunities that drive the spread tightness.

zerosum

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Re: Should I even consider running a 100% pay delegate.
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2014, 08:53:33 PM »
Quote
Lets turn $1,000 into $1,000,000 (or at least 750K).

Would this entail writing a blog or something, to spread the word?
Yes I think it will need a page, a blog or a small website.

In my mind if this goal was achieved, it would be it's own reward and wouldn't need dipping into delegate funding.

Quote
Fast Tight bitUSD Peg

Again, being a market maker and providing liquidity should be a profitable activity by itself. It's the profit opportunities that drive the spread tightness.
True! So you are saying I should not run for delegate?
But being the developer of the best blockchain based product around will be highly profitable for the developers who do it. Why pay them when they will benefit either way by being a BTS holders? Because of this I see a certain flows in this logic.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2014, 08:59:53 PM by tonyk2 »

julian1

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Re: Should I even consider running a 100% pay delegate.
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2014, 09:03:32 PM »
Quote
Lets turn $1,000 into $1,000,000 (or at least 750K).

Would this entail writing a blog or something, to spread the word?
Yes I think it will need a page, a blog or a small website.

In my mind if this goal was achieved, it would be it's own reward and wouldn't need dipping into delegate funding.

Quote
Fast Tight bitUSD Peg

Again, being a market maker and providing liquidity should be a profitable activity by itself. It's the profit opportunities that drive the spread tightness.
True! So you are saying I should not run for delegate?
But being the developer of the best blockchain based product around will be highly profitable for the developers who do it. Why pay them when they will benefit either way by being a BTS holders.?

There's an argument that they provide higher relative value, and they attract external developer resources who are risk-adverse and motivated by short-term salary potiential, rather than capital gain. With that said, I probably wouldn't fund them via inflation either, if it were my choice.

Offline fuzzy

Re: Should I even consider running a 100% pay delegate.
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2014, 09:17:56 PM »
tonyk could offer to not post anything anymore and thus create value if elected.

That's the kind of posts I was hoping for!
 +5%

lol...best comment ever for comedic value.  Tony knows his stuff and is painfully honest about his opinions.  I can certainly say that I respect it...even when he say's i'm stealing funds from him for the DOTA Tournament! :P

At current Marketcap, what is a 100% delegate paying?   Has anyone made a table that shows the percentages of pay at various marketcaps at varying pay rates (10%,25%,50%,100%...)? 

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