Poll

Would you take out a loan to buy BTS?

Yes, I believe that I'd get my money back and it would be like a margin trade.
31 (40.8%)
No, I don't have enough confidence in the marketing team.
29 (38.2%)
I'm not sure yet.
16 (21.1%)

Total Members Voted: 72

Voting closed: January 14, 2015, 11:08:05 AM

Author [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] Topic: Is now the best time to buy BTS? Would you take out a loan to do it?  (Read 2696 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline luckybit


Considering the fact that marketing hasn't kicked in yet and the price is dropping is now a good time to buy as much as possible?

Would any of you take out a loan to buy BTS?
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline graffenwalder

Re: Is now the best time to buy BTS? Would you take out a loan to do it?
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2014, 11:10:51 AM »
No, I would never take out a loan for an investment, no matter how good it may seem.

But yes, I think this is a good moment to buy, if your not planning on selling tomorrow.

Offline Frodo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 341
    • View Profile
  • BTS: frodo
Re: Is now the best time to buy BTS? Would you take out a loan to do it?
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2014, 11:12:36 AM »
No, I would never take out a loan for an investment, no matter how good it may seem.

But yes, I think this is a good moment to buy, if your not planning on selling tomorrow.

Yes, definitely this.

Offline cube

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1404
  • Bit by bit, we will get there!
    • View Profile
  • BTS: bitcube
  • Witness: bitcube
Re: Is now the best time to buy BTS? Would you take out a loan to do it?
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2014, 11:14:50 AM »
Crypto-investment is a high risk one. You will never know how the project turns out and what happen to dear regulators.  Invest at your risk-comfort level.
ID: bitcube
bitcube is a dedicated witness and committe member. Please vote for bitcube.

Offline nomoreheroes7

Re: Is now the best time to buy BTS? Would you take out a loan to do it?
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2014, 11:23:45 AM »
Voting options are incomplete. Where's "no, because that's crazy"? Lol has nothing to do with confidence in the marketing team.

Offline cn-members

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 365
    • View Profile
Re: Is now the best time to buy BTS? Would you take out a loan to do it?
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2014, 11:47:25 AM »
It's always against bank policy to use loan to invest in financial product .

Even if you can return it , it would leave a nasty credit report , because the use of loan won't match the financial records .
BTS中文区发言人公共账号,帮助社区有效沟通与交流。
Chinese Community Spokesman Account,to help the effective communication between Chinese and other members of the community.We're not translators to do regular translations , but will help with vital ones as we see fit and available at that time.

Offline luckybit

Re: Is now the best time to buy BTS? Would you take out a loan to do it?
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2014, 11:53:35 AM »
No, I would never take out a loan for an investment, no matter how good it may seem.

But yes, I think this is a good moment to buy, if your not planning on selling tomorrow.

Yes, definitely this.

That is irrational. People take out loans all the time for college or to buy houses. Why not to buy BTS?

Do you have enough faith in the protocol to believe the price will go up from here? If you do then why not make a margin trade?
It's always against bank policy to use loan to invest in financial product .

Even if you can return it , it would leave a nasty credit report , because the use of loan won't match the financial records .

The purpose of this poll and post was to try to find out just how confident the community really is that the price of BTS will reach $1. If you really think it will reach $1 then what stops you from taking out a loan and buying 1 million BTS? If you don't think it will reach $1 or you have several rational reasons why it's too risky to make the bet I'd like to hear that.

But just saying you wouldn't do it because it's somehow always incorrect is irrational. It's like saying it's always incorrect to take out loans when most people take out loans to make investments whether it is to buy a house they think will be worth more in the future, a college education they think will get them a high paying job, or a business they think will make them a millionaire.

Bitshares is like that startup which could make you into a millonaire if you put enough money into it. Why not go for broke? Bad credit?


« Last Edit: November 15, 2014, 11:57:33 AM by luckybit »
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Online pc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1194
    • View Profile
    • Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko?
  • BTS: cyrano
  • Witness: cyrano
  • Payrate: 100%
Re: Is now the best time to buy BTS? Would you take out a loan to do it?
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2014, 11:57:15 AM »
Would any of you take out a loan to buy BTS?

Rule #1 of investing: never invest money that you can't afford to lose!
Please vote for my BitShares witness "cyrano" and for my STEEM witness "cyrano.witness"!
Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko? ISBN 978-3-8442-6568-2 http://bitcoin.quisquis.de

Offline luckybit

Re: Is now the best time to buy BTS? Would you take out a loan to do it?
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2014, 11:59:53 AM »
Would any of you take out a loan to buy BTS?

Rule #1 of investing: never invest money that you can't afford to lose!

Of course that would be dogma but if you're starting a business then chances are you're investing money you can't afford to lose. How many startups are started by college drop outs who invest everything they have into the business? Now how many startups are started by rich kids who can invest exactly what they can afford to lose?

If I look at what happens in practice vs what financial experts say it seems you can make a case that Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak as well as Bill Gates and Paul Allen all invested more than they could afford to lose. They dropped out of college and put everything they had into their businesses.

What about Mark Zuckerberg? How much do you think him and his team invested into Facebook? Or what about the Ethereum team? I heard the reason they were able to raise so much money for the crowd sale is because they all invested everything they had and beyond into it. It seems to have paid off in these examples.

Quote
The intent is to withdraw 4150 BTC from our exodus address within the next 48 hours. We reserve the right to withdraw up to 850 BTC more if needed before the end of the 42 day duration of the sale, but at this point it is likely that the remainder of the BTC in the address will remain unused until the sale ends. Of this amount, 2650 BTC will be distributed to pay for loans for prior expenses. Individuals who have contributed loans to the project will receive repayment in BTC directly; “we” will not be selling any portion of this 2650 BTC on exchanges ourselves, although individuals may choose to independently convert the BTC that they receive into fiat after the fact. Individuals also have the choice of taking the repayment in ether; in those cases, we will simply not send the BTC, and once all repayments have been processed we will publish all of the additional ETH that has been sold in this way (note that this is equivalent to sending individuals their BTC and letting the recipients send it right back into the exodus). The remaining 1500 BTC will be sent to a wallet controlled by ĐΞV, our development arm, and will be used to establish our sites in Berlin and Amsterdam and begin hiring developers; some of this amount may be converted into EUR, GBP or CHF (eg. to pay for rent), and the remainder will be held as BTC.

The interesting thing is suppose you do take out loans to buy BTS? You could then save your BTS as BitUSD guaranteeing that you'll be able to pay off the loan while also helping BTS rise in price.

Reference
https://blog.ethereum.org/2014/08/08/announcement-on-planned-exodus-withdrawal/
https://docs.google.com/a/ethereum.org/spreadsheets/d/1yqymLKNf9tIbArjYrKhEf-IvNmgA6FfvhjnqH_nO_ao/edit?pli=1#gid=0
« Last Edit: November 15, 2014, 12:09:13 PM by luckybit »
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline cn-members

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 365
    • View Profile
Re: Is now the best time to buy BTS? Would you take out a loan to do it?
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2014, 12:25:34 PM »
well , some bank I know , they would regularly sneak up on you , ask you to provide detailed proof of use for your loan ,  invoice , financial statement etc ....  If you can't provide that , they will ask you to return the loan ASAP .

There are student loan \ house loans ,  but no BTS loans ....so ...
BTS中文区发言人公共账号,帮助社区有效沟通与交流。
Chinese Community Spokesman Account,to help the effective communication between Chinese and other members of the community.We're not translators to do regular translations , but will help with vital ones as we see fit and available at that time.

Offline fuzzy

Re: Is now the best time to buy BTS? Would you take out a loan to do it?
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2014, 12:28:04 PM »
No, I would never take out a loan for an investment, no matter how good it may seem.

But yes, I think this is a good moment to buy, if your not planning on selling tomorrow.

Yes, definitely this.

That is irrational. People take out loans all the time for college or to buy houses. Why not to buy BTS?

Do you have enough faith in the protocol to believe the price will go up from here? If you do then why not make a margin trade?
It's always against bank policy to use loan to invest in financial product .

Even if you can return it , it would leave a nasty credit report , because the use of loan won't match the financial records .

The purpose of this poll and post was to try to find out just how confident the community really is that the price of BTS will reach $1. If you really think it will reach $1 then what stops you from taking out a loan and buying 1 million BTS? If you don't think it will reach $1 or you have several rational reasons why it's too risky to make the bet I'd like to hear that.

But just saying you wouldn't do it because it's somehow always incorrect is irrational. It's like saying it's always incorrect to take out loans when most people take out loans to make investments whether it is to buy a house they think will be worth more in the future, a college education they think will get them a high paying job, or a business they think will make them a millionaire.

Bitshares is like that startup which could make you into a millonaire if you put enough money into it. Why not go for broke? Bad credit?

Because the best protocol doesn't necessarily mean the adoption of bitshares.  With a media blackout from Bitcoin...
People like Counterparty, Ethereum, Ripple, Nubits...we are seeing a new "elite" creeping in who will form alliances against projects with philosophies like bitshares.  BitShares is the BEST protocol, but that doesn't mean these institutions will not just steal certain aspects and change the shareholder voting, coupled with a huge marketing campaign through the established crypto channels (and in the case of Ethereum/Bitcoin, the "alternative" media channels) to make users feel good and drown out the voices of concern. 

Taking out a loan right now...as confident as I am in the tech, is not a good idea.  The best thing to would be to take out a loan and diversify within the DPOS ecosystem...unfortunately we have a real community divide on that one--where many see clones as taking away from their piece of the pie.  Of course, most of the opponents somehow, oddly, were drawn to this ecosystem by the idea of having a stake in multiple DACs, so I am confused by this one. 

In summary, our community is still evolving and figuring out what this tech means to us.  We are constantly traveling against stiff headwinds...and our competitors are able to steal our toolkit  without ever being called out in a way that reaches a large user-base.  These are the reasons I would not take out a loan to buy bitshares.
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline JakeThePanda

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 232
    • View Profile
Re: Is now the best time to buy BTS? Would you take out a loan to do it?
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2014, 12:32:51 PM »
People take out loans for investments all the time, they are called margin accounts. ;)

Offline luckybit

Re: Is now the best time to buy BTS? Would you take out a loan to do it?
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2014, 12:45:32 PM »
well , some bank I know , they would regularly sneak up on you , ask you to provide detailed proof of use for your loan ,  invoice , financial statement etc ....  If you can't provide that , they will ask you to return the loan ASAP .

There are student loan \ house loans ,  but no BTS loans ....so ...

You can take a personal loan. It doesn't even have to be a huge loan but if each of us put $20,000-30,000 into BTS we'd all be millionaires if it hit $1 and the act of putting that much money into it would cause the price to rise, bring media attention, etc.

So it's almost a self fulfilling prophecy situation where the more money that gets put in the bucket the more attractive the bucket gets and then other people start putting money into the bucket.

The interesting feature of Bitshares is that you have BitUSD. So if you took out a $30,000 loan to buy BitUSD and just hold it in BitUSD until after people dump the price down then you'll end up with  your money back plus BTS. If that doesn't happen and it kickstarts the Bitshares price up to $1 then whatever BTS you were holding before you took out the loan would be worth a lot more money.

Tell me how you can lose here?
No, I would never take out a loan for an investment, no matter how good it may seem.

But yes, I think this is a good moment to buy, if your not planning on selling tomorrow.

Yes, definitely this.

That is irrational. People take out loans all the time for college or to buy houses. Why not to buy BTS?

Do you have enough faith in the protocol to believe the price will go up from here? If you do then why not make a margin trade?
It's always against bank policy to use loan to invest in financial product .

Even if you can return it , it would leave a nasty credit report , because the use of loan won't match the financial records .

The purpose of this poll and post was to try to find out just how confident the community really is that the price of BTS will reach $1. If you really think it will reach $1 then what stops you from taking out a loan and buying 1 million BTS? If you don't think it will reach $1 or you have several rational reasons why it's too risky to make the bet I'd like to hear that.

But just saying you wouldn't do it because it's somehow always incorrect is irrational. It's like saying it's always incorrect to take out loans when most people take out loans to make investments whether it is to buy a house they think will be worth more in the future, a college education they think will get them a high paying job, or a business they think will make them a millionaire.

Bitshares is like that startup which could make you into a millonaire if you put enough money into it. Why not go for broke? Bad credit?

Because the best protocol doesn't necessarily mean the adoption of bitshares.  With a media blackout from Bitcoin...
People like Counterparty, Ethereum, Ripple, Nubits...we are seeing a new "elite" creeping in who will form alliances against projects with philosophies like bitshares.  BitShares is the BEST protocol, but that doesn't mean these institutions will not just steal certain aspects and change the shareholder voting, coupled with a huge marketing campaign through the established crypto channels (and in the case of Ethereum/Bitcoin, the "alternative" media channels) to make users feel good and drown out the voices of concern. 

Taking out a loan right now...as confident as I am in the tech, is not a good idea.  The best thing to would be to take out a loan and diversify within the DPOS ecosystem...unfortunately we have a real community divide on that one--where many see clones as taking away from their piece of the pie.  Of course, most of the opponents somehow, oddly, were drawn to this ecosystem by the idea of having a stake in multiple DACs, so I am confused by this one. 

In summary, our community is still evolving and figuring out what this tech means to us.  We are constantly traveling against stiff headwinds...and our competitors are able to steal our toolkit  without ever being called out in a way that reaches a large user-base.  These are the reasons I would not take out a loan to buy bitshares.


The reason Bitcoin was risky to take out a loan for was the volatility. Bitshares doesn't actually have much volatility so what is the risk in taking out as big of a loan as you can to buy BitUSD?

Then you hold the BitUSD for a period of weeks or months until the price of BTS decreases. If the price decreases you can buy even more BTS and if the price increases then you might have less but if you trade right why wouldn't you end up with more BTS and still have the BitUSD to pay off the loan?

It's risky and maybe not the thing to do if you're not 100% willing to take a leap of faith but I do think you can at least make an argument for doing it. I think you can actually sort of look at this poll as an indicator of the likelihood that BTS will reach $1.

If people believe in it enough in the core community to take out loans for it then that is the reason to believe in BTS as a person who doesn't have any. It's the level of commitment and risk that the current community takes that can give you confidence so if everyone says they wouldn't take out a loan for BTS then maybe they don't really think the price is going up and that means it might be a good time to wait for some people to dump their shares as this is a bear market.

« Last Edit: November 15, 2014, 12:54:59 PM by luckybit »
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline graffenwalder

Re: Is now the best time to buy BTS? Would you take out a loan to do it?
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2014, 12:48:21 PM »
There's difference between a margin trade (in the BTS client) and going out for a loan.
If your margin got called, you wouldn't have to be scared that BM and Stan would be knocking on your door, to confiscate your house.

Offline graffenwalder

Re: Is now the best time to buy BTS? Would you take out a loan to do it?
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2014, 12:49:08 PM »
well , some bank I know , they would regularly sneak up on you , ask you to provide detailed proof of use for your loan ,  invoice , financial statement etc ....  If you can't provide that , they will ask you to return the loan ASAP .

There are student loan \ house loans ,  but no BTS loans ....so ...

You can take a personal loan. It doesn't even have to be a huge loan but if each of us put $20,000-30,000 into BTS we'd all be millionaires if it hit $1 and the act of putting that much money into it would cause the price to rise, bring media attention, etc.

So it's almost a self fulfilling prophecy situation where the more money that gets put in the bucket the more
Ah great, everybody loves a good ponzi

 

Google+