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Offline hadrian

Fundraising mechanism
« on: November 15, 2014, 10:15:53 PM »

edit: this post is in reference to raising funds for normal, yet expensive tasks such as those ordinarily carried out by delegates within BTS. For example, an expensive advertising campaign...

Is it possible to create a semi-automated 'fundraising system' within the protocol, whereby users can give funds for a project and receive 'interest' if the project is successful?
Failing this, is it possible to do it in a more manual way using delegates, and requiring some trust?

Has anyone discussed ideas for fundraising above and beyond delegate pay? (My understanding is that delegate pay is limited by the amount of fees being payed in the system)
Is there a mechanism in place (or planned) for bringing in more money if it is deemed to be necessary or desirable?

What if someone comes up with a really good plan which the community wants to see implemented for the benefit of BitShares, but funds are lacking?
What if the community could in these situations give funds voluntarily and immediately?

I believe there may be various ways to implement something like this. The main problems I see are that some trust would likely be needed, and subjective issues would need to be voted/argued on.

Perhaps this isn't possible, or would introduce too much scope for underhand dealings?

There are some complicated issues here, perhaps more than meets the eyes.

Potential upsides:
  • This could be an alternative, in some cases, to increasing inflation.
  • It could offer increased 'yield' to those individuals who want to take risks, at the same time as supporting improvements to BitShares.
  • These individual risk takers could swallow the loss of the initial investment, instead of the BitShares userbase as a whole.
  • Perhaps this method would therefore allow risky projects to take place when otherwise they wouldn't have got off the ground.
  • It could allow more flexibility if opportunities suddenly appear which would ordinarily take a long time to fund.

« Last Edit: November 16, 2014, 12:30:37 AM by hadrian »
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zerosum

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Re: Fundraising mechanism
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2014, 10:29:29 PM »
User issued assets is the simplest thing that comes to mind.

Offline hadrian

Re: Fundraising mechanism
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2014, 10:45:32 PM »
User issued assets is the simplest thing that comes to mind.

Reading my post over again, I see that I didn't make it clear.

The kind of projects I meant are those that BTS delegates carry out ordinarily for the benefit of BTS, except that they are too expensive to carry out in a timely manner using profit from fees. For example, a project to carry out an expensive advertising campaign.

I think my OP came across, mistakenly, as refering to projects which are somewhat separate from core BTS.

Does this make sense? I'm not in a fit state ATM! Sorry about that...
« Last Edit: November 15, 2014, 10:50:36 PM by hadrian »
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zerosum

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Re: Fundraising mechanism
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2014, 11:01:54 PM »
OK if you like it better rename the thing to:

"Issuer issued assets" and "Community Project Contracts"

Same thing different name.



*"Community Project  Contracts" are Unenforceable Contracts issued on the BTS exchange.

Offline starspirit

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Re: Fundraising mechanism
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2014, 11:27:46 PM »
edit: this post is in reference to raising funds for normal, yet expensive tasks such as those ordinarily carried out by delegates within BTS. For example, an expensive advertising campaign...

Is it possible to create a semi-automated 'fundraising system' within the protocol, whereby users can give funds for a project and receive 'interest' if the project is successful?
Failing this, is it possible to do it in a more manual way using delegates, and requiring some trust?

Has anyone discussed ideas for fundraising above and beyond delegate pay? (My understanding is that delegate pay is limited by the amount of fees being payed in the system)
Is there a mechanism in place (or planned) for bringing in more money if it is deemed to be necessary or desirable?

What if someone comes up with a really good plan which the community wants to see implemented for the benefit of BitShares, but funds are lacking?
What if the community could in these situations give funds voluntarily and immediately?

I believe there may be various ways to implement something like this. The main problems I see are that some trust would likely be needed, and subjective issues would need to be voted/argued on.

Perhaps this isn't possible, or would introduce too much scope for underhand dealings?

There are some complicated issues here, perhaps more than meets the eyes.

Potential upsides:
  • This could be an alternative, in some cases, to increasing inflation.
  • It could offer increased 'yield' to those individuals who want to take risks, at the same time as supporting improvements to BitShares.
  • These individual risk takers could swallow the loss of the initial investment, instead of the BitShares userbase as a whole.
  • Perhaps this method would therefore allow risky projects to take place when otherwise they wouldn't have got off the ground.
  • It could allow more flexibility if opportunities suddenly appear which would ordinarily take a long time to fund.
+5%
This is a good idea to build on - voluntary funding of community projects as an alternative to dilution. Growth + Individual Freedom.
The trick I'm grappling with is in how to get the reward for the project that pays back the initial funders with interest, especially once the end-product is already in the hands of the community. It may be this could come through:
- direct user donations,
- if the product is a tool, tool-based fees (even if just for a temporary period to cover the ROI), or
- a dedicated pool of contributed community funds that rewards on the outcomes of such projects.

Offline hadrian

Re: Fundraising mechanism
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2014, 12:10:44 AM »
+5%
This is a good idea to build on - voluntary funding of community projects as an alternative to dilution. Growth + Individual Freedom.
The trick I'm grappling with is in how to get the reward for the project that pays back the initial funders with interest, especially once the end-product is already in the hands of the community. It may be this could come through:
- direct user donations,
- if the product is a tool, tool-based fees (even if just for a temporary period to cover the ROI), or
- a dedicated pool of contributed community funds that rewards on the outcomes of such projects.

I was thinking of the same issues which you've raised.
Assuming there could be a 'dedicated pool of contributed community funds that rewards on the outcomes of such projects', the hard bit might be to ascertain the level of success of the project (in terms of value added to BitShares). This is where the 'subjective issues' which I mentioned come into play. Maybe there could be methods for measuring or voting upon the success of the project, if it isn't clear cut. If this could be gauged, perhaps there would then be a way of paying back the funders. Maybe through pay from delegates, or diverting some fees instead of burning them?

It feels quite messy, but I wonder if it's worth working on.

@tonyk2 - at the moment I don't fully understand your comments, possibly because I'm knackered! If this were done through user issued assets, how would the asset obtain 'pay' from BitShares in return for adding value to the system? I will think more about what you said tomorrow...

« Last Edit: November 16, 2014, 12:13:14 AM by hadrian »
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Offline joele

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Re: Fundraising mechanism
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2014, 05:36:39 AM »
Good idea, something like System Delegates, let say there are 20 System Delegates exist and we vote how many of these should be part in top 101 and collects diluted BTS for expensive project funding.

 

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