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Offline newtree

About the price,i want to say···
« on: November 20, 2014, 04:12:31 PM »

Cause my english is poor,and i dont have enough time to modify,let me be bluntly.

I am a frequent trader, often "cut chives," I know very well the reasons behind the falling prices. If you need evidence, I can put some transaction records to prove my specialty - the evidence will show that I was a good trader, in most cases are cut chives, only in the bts, I was cut chives up-what a sad story! i call it"Faith pains" or "Cost of true love".

Price decline was due to investors departure,yes,they gone.

Market is a rather special place, filled with rational and irrational. When talking about the market, we should throw away the calculator, not 1 + 1 = 2 so simple. When it comes to the "dilution" will or not affect the price, we should not be holding a calculator, but to fully consider the impact of this matter on investor confidence. Investors leave because 1.btsx become more complex,so complex that is difficult to explain to most people - I mean changes in equity 2.3i dazzling showcase his capability to tamper with the bts -  emphasized the "capability",dont tell me there is no damage,please once again throw away your calculator.3i has given many people many reasons to attack bts,no "zuo"(equal to play fire) no die.

Emphasize that: 1.only a simple model can attract investors -  investors can easily understand, just like pts and ags.2.Profit model should be simple - invest one time, no need to be concerned about any more.OK,frankly, that means do not arbitrarily change the rules.Remember:trust is hard to built and easy to destroy .

I am very angry,  not angry with what 3i had done, but 3i has not yet aware of the problem, still no respect for market rules.

Am i agree with 3i now rules? Yes, if the beginning is so--at least not very bad.

But if PTS was not "POW",part of the BTSX was reserved for the developer and DNS was not born,that will be more porfect.
 
We must do something to make the situation better, from now on.a test chain? a good product manager? a good economic model for the division?

We need ALL!

1.Take the new asset-publishing rule as a example(on the line suddenly,damn!): auction or pay,which is better? floating charge or a fixed fee,which is better? 12345 letters asset charging rules can be refined? Why not protect these assets previously like BITUSD?

People can low-cost registered a number of BTS account, this is the first mistake; System critical account name was not protected previously, which is the second; after the market is on line, a lot of people lost money, unable to open positions result in burst positions, this is the third.If the farther back then, we can also found that many did not do things, and these things could have been avoided.

A test chain can largely solve this problem.

2.An easy to use wallet is the best publicity, can refer to Apple.

3.Economic model is the most important thing, do not arbitrary change, any change would have damage investor - even if it seems the system is not damaged. You can try several times on the test chain, or take to do mathematical modeling. In short, do not hurry to finish the work, to be stable.
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Offline lastagile

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Re: About the price,i want to say···
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2014, 04:37:49 PM »
This is exactly what I want say.  +5% +5% +5% +5%

Offline dna_gym

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Re: About the price,i want to say···
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2014, 04:44:10 PM »
 +5% +5% This is exactly what I wanted to say, I was frustrated because I couldn't express it. Thank you. I am sharing your opinion.
I hope CoinHoarder also sympathize with your concern and he has a good reputation and could appeal to a wider range in the community.
I was frustrated because BM and Stan appeared to not noticed the problem ("1.only a simple model can attract investors").
« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 04:46:59 PM by dna_gym »

lzr1900

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Re: About the price,i want to say···
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2014, 04:47:21 PM »
 +5%

Offline btswildpig

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Re: About the price,i want to say···
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2014, 04:47:39 PM »
 +5% +5% +5% +5% +5% +5%
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline Riverhead

Re: About the price,i want to say···
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2014, 04:58:45 PM »

Your concerns are well founded. Here are my thoughts:

1) DevShares will be released soon. The idea is exactly as you stated - to have a test chain for new functionality and rules. The issue with a testnet is that no one uses it. DevShares will have some non zero value which should encourage people to try the new features rather than just developers and die-hard users.

2) There are new wallets being designed. One for an advanced top shelf trading experience and I believe another wallet that is much less complex for the average user. The user experience issues of the current wallet are well known and the dev team is working hard to address this.

3) It certainly could have been communicated better that this is Alpha software. Not even Beta yet, though hopefully soon. While people in software development are used to "zero dot" releases the trading community is not and therefore are caught by surprise when big changes occur.

There are two paths to developing this type of software. The Etherium route where everything is hush hush until it's polished and ready to go or the Bitshare's route which is open and community driven, or at least community sound boarded.

tl;dr

What you say isn't wrong however I think it's more a misunderstanding about the stage Bitshares is at in its development cycle.

Offline Stan

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Re: About the price,i want to say···
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2014, 05:10:44 PM »

Your concerns are well founded. Here are my thoughts:

1) DevShares will be released soon. The idea is exactly as you stated - to have a test chain for new functionality and rules. The issue with a testnet is that no one uses it. DevShares will have some non zero value which should encourage people to try the new features rather than just developers and die-hard users.

2) There are new wallets being designed. One for an advanced top shelf trading experience and I believe another wallet that is much less complex for the average user. The user experience issues of the current wallet are well known and the dev team is working hard to address this.

3) It certainly could have been communicated better that this is Alpha software. Not even Beta yet, though hopefully soon. While people in software development are used to "zero dot" releases the trading community is not and therefore are caught by surprise when big changes occur.

There are two paths to developing this type of software. The Etherium route where everything is hush hush until it's polished and ready to go or the Bitshare's route which is open and community driven, or at least community sound boarded.

tl;dr

What you say isn't wrong however I think it's more a misunderstanding about the stage Bitshares is at in its development cycle.

I wonder where else we should post this?

It's stickied prominently on this forum and in the license agreement you sign to begin using the wallet.
Perhaps on the wallet splash screen and web site landing page?  Where else would be appropriate?
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline xeroc

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Re: About the price,i want to say···
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2014, 05:12:58 PM »
Yeah .. it was and still is communicated well that its alpha stage and NOT for serious money ..
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu powered by ChainSquad GmbH

Offline Rune

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Re: About the price,i want to say···
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2014, 05:33:33 PM »
I disagree that bitshares in its current form isn't for serious money.

People just have to understand that paid delegates is such a massive benefit that it had to be implemented no matter the short term effect on price. I feel stupid for not anticipating the selloff, but even with my current huge losses I'm more longterm bullish for bitshares than I've ever been.

Offline btswildpig

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Re: About the price,i want to say···
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2014, 05:37:04 PM »

Your concerns are well founded. Here are my thoughts:

1) DevShares will be released soon. The idea is exactly as you stated - to have a test chain for new functionality and rules. The issue with a testnet is that no one uses it. DevShares will have some non zero value which should encourage people to try the new features rather than just developers and die-hard users.

2) There are new wallets being designed. One for an advanced top shelf trading experience and I believe another wallet that is much less complex for the average user. The user experience issues of the current wallet are well known and the dev team is working hard to address this.

3) It certainly could have been communicated better that this is Alpha software. Not even Beta yet, though hopefully soon. While people in software development are used to "zero dot" releases the trading community is not and therefore are caught by surprise when big changes occur.

There are two paths to developing this type of software. The Etherium route where everything is hush hush until it's polished and ready to go or the Bitshare's route which is open and community driven, or at least community sound boarded.

tl;dr

What you say isn't wrong however I think it's more a misunderstanding about the stage Bitshares is at in its development cycle.

I wonder where else we should post this?

It's stickied prominently on this forum and in the license agreement you sign to begin using the wallet.
Perhaps on the wallet splash screen and web site landing page?  Where else would be appropriate?

Experiment does not contradict with caution .
Caution is long over due than just a "experiment" can answer .
There are good experiments and bad ones .
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline werneo

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Re: About the price,i want to say···
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2014, 06:25:53 PM »
Yeah .. it was and still is communicated well that its alpha stage and NOT for serious money ..

If BitShares is not ready for "serious money", then that must also true of the entire crypto-economy.

In fact, virtually ALL cryptocurrencies (not just BTS) are in BEAR MODE right now. From this we infer that BTS is not being singled out by capitulating investors. So reminding people that BitShares is in alpha testing is well and good, but that fact is not necessarily related to the current price bleed.

Offline luckybit

Re: About the price,i want to say···
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2014, 06:29:58 PM »
Cause my english is poor,and i dont have enough time to modify,let me be bluntly.

I am a frequent trader, often "cut chives," I know very well the reasons behind the falling prices. If you need evidence, I can put some transaction records to prove my specialty - the evidence will show that I was a good trader, in most cases are cut chives, only in the bts, I was cut chives up-what a sad story! i call it"Faith pains" or "Cost of true love".

Price decline was due to investors departure,yes,they gone.

Market is a rather special place, filled with rational and irrational. When talking about the market, we should throw away the calculator, not 1 + 1 = 2 so simple. When it comes to the "dilution" will or not affect the price, we should not be holding a calculator, but to fully consider the impact of this matter on investor confidence. Investors leave because 1.btsx become more complex,so complex that is difficult to explain to most people - I mean changes in equity 2.3i dazzling showcase his capability to tamper with the bts -  emphasized the "capability",dont tell me there is no damage,please once again throw away your calculator.3i has given many people many reasons to attack bts,no "zuo"(equal to play fire) no die.

Emphasize that: 1.only a simple model can attract investors -  investors can easily understand, just like pts and ags.2.Profit model should be simple - invest one time, no need to be concerned about any more.OK,frankly, that means do not arbitrarily change the rules.Remember:trust is hard to built and easy to destroy .

I am very angry,  not angry with what 3i had done, but 3i has not yet aware of the problem, still no respect for market rules.

Am i agree with 3i now rules? Yes, if the beginning is so--at least not very bad.

But if PTS was not "POW",part of the BTSX was reserved for the developer and DNS was not born,that will be more porfect.
 
We must do something to make the situation better, from now on.a test chain? a good product manager? a good economic model for the division?

We need ALL!

1.Take the new asset-publishing rule as a example(on the line suddenly,damn!): auction or pay,which is better? floating charge or a fixed fee,which is better? 12345 letters asset charging rules can be refined? Why not protect these assets previously like BITUSD?

People can low-cost registered a number of BTS account, this is the first mistake; System critical account name was not protected previously, which is the second; after the market is on line, a lot of people lost money, unable to open positions result in burst positions, this is the third.If the farther back then, we can also found that many did not do things, and these things could have been avoided.

A test chain can largely solve this problem.

2.An easy to use wallet is the best publicity, can refer to Apple.

3.Economic model is the most important thing, do not arbitrary change, any change would have damage investor - even if it seems the system is not damaged. You can try several times on the test chain, or take to do mathematical modeling. In short, do not hurry to finish the work, to be stable.

In the United States you have Bitcoin Black Friday. People are going to spend as much Bitcoins as they can which could mean the price of Bitcoins may drop a lot. At the same time some people will start to cash out their BTS to buy gifts.

I'm waiting for anyone to refute this speculation but if that happens wouldn't the price of BTS dip a lot lower?
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

lzr1900

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Re: About the price,i want to say···
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2014, 11:35:10 PM »
Cause my english is poor,and i dont have enough time to modify,let me be bluntly.

I am a frequent trader, often "cut chives," I know very well the reasons behind the falling prices. If you need evidence, I can put some transaction records to prove my specialty - the evidence will show that I was a good trader, in most cases are cut chives, only in the bts, I was cut chives up-what a sad story! i call it"Faith pains" or "Cost of true love".

Price decline was due to investors departure,yes,they gone.

Market is a rather special place, filled with rational and irrational. When talking about the market, we should throw away the calculator, not 1 + 1 = 2 so simple. When it comes to the "dilution" will or not affect the price, we should not be holding a calculator, but to fully consider the impact of this matter on investor confidence. Investors leave because 1.btsx become more complex,so complex that is difficult to explain to most people - I mean changes in equity 2.3i dazzling showcase his capability to tamper with the bts -  emphasized the "capability",dont tell me there is no damage,please once again throw away your calculator.3i has given many people many reasons to attack bts,no "zuo"(equal to play fire) no die.

Emphasize that: 1.only a simple model can attract investors -  investors can easily understand, just like pts and ags.2.Profit model should be simple - invest one time, no need to be concerned about any more.OK,frankly, that means do not arbitrarily change the rules.Remember:trust is hard to built and easy to destroy .

I am very angry,  not angry with what 3i had done, but 3i has not yet aware of the problem, still no respect for market rules.

Am i agree with 3i now rules? Yes, if the beginning is so--at least not very bad.

But if PTS was not "POW",part of the BTSX was reserved for the developer and DNS was not born,that will be more porfect.
 
We must do something to make the situation better, from now on.a test chain? a good product manager? a good economic model for the division?

We need ALL!

1.Take the new asset-publishing rule as a example(on the line suddenly,damn!): auction or pay,which is better? floating charge or a fixed fee,which is better? 12345 letters asset charging rules can be refined? Why not protect these assets previously like BITUSD?

People can low-cost registered a number of BTS account, this is the first mistake; System critical account name was not protected previously, which is the second; after the market is on line, a lot of people lost money, unable to open positions result in burst positions, this is the third.If the farther back then, we can also found that many did not do things, and these things could have been avoided.

A test chain can largely solve this problem.

2.An easy to use wallet is the best publicity, can refer to Apple.

3.Economic model is the most important thing, do not arbitrary change, any change would have damage investor - even if it seems the system is not damaged. You can try several times on the test chain, or take to do mathematical modeling. In short, do not hurry to finish the work, to be stable.

In the United States you have Bitcoin Black Friday. People are going to spend as much Bitcoins as they can which could mean the price of Bitcoins may drop a lot. At the same time some people will start to cash out their BTS to buy gifts.

I'm waiting for anyone to refute this speculation but if that happens wouldn't the price of BTS dip a lot lower?
Come on.80% volume of BTS is trading in CNY!We Chinese didn't have Black Friday!!!!

Offline Ander

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Re: About the price,i want to say···
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2014, 11:46:54 PM »
At the same time some people will start to cash out their BTS to buy gifts.

When in your life have you ever sold off investments in order to buy gifts.  Does anyone do this?

Everyone buys gifts out of their paycheck or bonuses.  They dont sell their stocks to buy gifts, and they wont sell their bitshares to either.
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Offline cass

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Re: About the price,i want to say···
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2014, 12:00:10 AM »
People just have to understand that paid delegates is such a massive benefit that it had to be implemented no matter the short term effect on price. I feel stupid for not anticipating the selloff, but even with my current huge losses I'm more longterm bullish for bitshares than I've ever been.

well said  +5%
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