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Offline taa

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Dan

I found someone in china by manipulating the bitshare's price of bter and btc38  then use the ALT's delegates auto feed to manipulate bts price in our internal market.

please ask delegate to stop using ALT's delegates auto feed script!!!! 
ALT's delegates auto feed script need to be revised and add minimum  number of sampling  price for calculation 

Thanks

temp. solution to increase the sample no. to 600

Quote
   "common3": "we use the media price, how many samples need to use",
    "median_length": 600
« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 05:45:38 PM by taa »

Offline xeroc

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Re: please ask delegate to stop using ALT's delegates auto feed script!!!!
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2014, 05:19:12 PM »
Do you have details about the manipulation? I also maintain a feed script which might be affected aswell
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Offline taa

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Re: please ask delegate to stop using ALT's delegates auto feed script!!!!
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2014, 05:24:25 PM »
I am try to get BM to look into it. to be safe ,please increase the sample size in  this script

Offline Rune

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Re: please ask delegate to stop using ALT's delegates auto feed script!!!!
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2014, 05:25:15 PM »
Nice to see someone catching this. Hope it gets fixed asap.

Offline gamey

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Re: please ask delegate to stop using ALT's delegates auto feed script!!!!
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2014, 05:38:46 PM »

SO someone finds thin buy orders.. sells to them and price decreases.  Then feed is lowered briefly and they can purchase bts shorts below what they should be able to.  Market quickly corrects and they have a lead in their shorts because the shorts were bought at a lower price?

I've been trying to understand all the market stuff so this is my guess.  Anyone?
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Offline taa

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Re: please ask delegate to stop using ALT's delegates auto feed script!!!!
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2014, 05:47:42 PM »
you got it. due to more than 90% of the delegates are using alt's auto feed script so thing getting worse

SO someone finds thin buy orders.. sells to them and price decreases.  Then feed is lowered briefly and they can purchase bts shorts below what they should be able to.  Market quickly corrects and they have a lead in their shorts because the shorts were bought at a lower price?

I've been trying to understand all the market stuff so this is my guess.  Anyone?

Offline CalabiYau

Re: please ask delegate to stop using ALT's delegates auto feed script!!!!
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2014, 05:59:01 PM »
I am try to get BM to look into it. to be safe ,please increase the sample size in  this script

Good catch, thank you. Script fixed.

Offline liondani

Re: please ask delegate to stop using ALT's delegates auto feed script!!!!
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2014, 06:08:19 PM »
should bm consider again to give more power to the free market instead of the feeds?  like he did in the first place? is the market depth not helping right now?at least for bitUSD...

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Offline lil_jay890

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Re: please ask delegate to stop using ALT's delegates auto feed script!!!!
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2014, 06:18:02 PM »
should bm consider again to give more power to the free market instead of the feeds?  like he did in the first place? is the market depth not helping right now?at least for bitUSD...

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Feeds are required for the time being... at least until we have moved to 1.0 and have an order book 100X as big as it is now.

Without feed restrictions, the market will be manipulated until it blows up

Offline bytemaster

Re: please ask delegate to stop using ALT's delegates auto feed script!!!!
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2014, 07:10:27 PM »
Explain to me what is going on?

If you manipulate the feed you can in theory cause some shorts to execute at a slightly better price (say the price was manipulated 1% on an exchange)... but the spread on the internal market is in excess of 1% so the accuracy of the feed below those tolerances is not an issue.

Can you show a time where the feed was "manipulated" by more than 1%?

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Offline taa

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Re: please ask delegate to stop using ALT's delegates auto feed script!!!!
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2014, 08:02:03 PM »
PMed.  ALT price feed trigger  is default to 0.5% change on bter and btc38

Explain to me what is going on?

If you manipulate the feed you can in theory cause some shorts to execute at a slightly better price (say the price was manipulated 1% on an exchange)... but the spread on the internal market is in excess of 1% so the accuracy of the feed below those tolerances is not an issue.

Can you show a time where the feed was "manipulated" by more than 1%?

Offline emski

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Re: please ask delegate to stop using ALT's delegates auto feed script!!!!
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2014, 08:14:28 PM »
Isn't this free market?
Isn't this supposed to work this way?
My version of the script is extra sensitive to negative price movements 0.1% (at default settings) trigger feed update.

Online fluxer555

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Re: please ask delegate to stop using ALT's delegates auto feed script!!!!
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2014, 08:32:10 PM »
Isn't this free market?
Isn't this supposed to work this way?
My version of the script is extra sensitive to negative price movements 0.1% (at default settings) trigger feed update.

The problem is that the current price feed system does not factor in volume into the spot price, and spot price has little to do with actual valuation in an illiquid market. Look at Mastercoin's market cap, for example, vs its volume. If you were a MSC whale, you'd have a very hard time divesting at the 'spot price'.

Offline emski

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Re: please ask delegate to stop using ALT's delegates auto feed script!!!!
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2014, 08:42:07 PM »
Isn't this free market?
Isn't this supposed to work this way?
My version of the script is extra sensitive to negative price movements 0.1% (at default settings) trigger feed update.

The problem is that the current price feed system does not factor in volume into the spot price, and spot price has little to do with actual valuation in an illiquid market. Look at Mastercoin's market cap, for example, vs its volume. If you were a MSC whale, you'd have a very hard time divesting at the 'spot price'.

My version of the script uses the volume reported by the exchange. If the volume is low its (that exchange's) price weight is reduced.

The only way to make more accurate script is if we collect all deals from all exchanges in the last few minutes and average everything accounting for volume and price of each trade.

Online fluxer555

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Re: please ask delegate to stop using ALT's delegates auto feed script!!!!
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2014, 08:47:45 PM »
Perhaps the best script would look at each individual trade from an exchange (or all exchanges at once?), take a rolling window of X number of BTS traded, and average the price from those X BTS. X could be determined by a percentage of the 1-hour window of total volume across all exchanges, so that when there is more volume, it takes more BTS into account when making the average.

If there aren't public APIs for this data, you could probably pull it from the front-end JSON API for listing recent trades...
« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 08:51:45 PM by fluxer555 »

 

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