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Offline Murderistic

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Legal Delegate
« on: December 02, 2014, 01:53:56 AM »

I propose a delegate get voted in at 100% pay to be used for any legal/lobbing funds that might be needed for the future.  Surely the large stakeholders and community would find this in their best interest?

What are your thoughts?

Offline islandking

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Re: Legal Delegate
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2014, 02:37:10 AM »
No. The whole point of crypto is to avoid government intervention. The US government does not determine the laws of the world and certainly not the internet.
There is no reason to be lobbying (bribing) officials for something we do not need their approval on.
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Offline xeroc

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Re: Legal Delegate
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2014, 07:09:45 AM »
No. The whole point of crypto is to avoid government intervention. The US government does not determine the laws of the world and certainly not the internet.
There is no reason to be lobbying (bribing) officials for something we do not need their approval on.
I disagree... (though you are right that the U.S. should not have a special say)

A legal delegate (role 6 in http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Delegate/PublicData#delegate.role) can also work for regulations and bringing clarity for delegates legal status in different countries ..

Also we can need someone to ensure noone is misusing our trademarks
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Offline donkeypong

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Re: Legal Delegate
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2014, 07:20:59 AM »
No. The whole point of crypto is to avoid government intervention. The US government does not determine the laws of the world and certainly not the internet.
There is no reason to be lobbying (bribing) officials for something we do not need their approval on.
I disagree... (though you are right that the U.S. should not have a special say)

A legal delegate (role 6 in http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Delegate/PublicData#delegate.role) can also work for regulations and bringing clarity for delegates legal status in different countries ..

Also we can need someone to ensure noone is misusing our trademarks

Do you mean a legal/lobbyist delegate? Bitpay and Coinbase have been hiring people who roam the hallways of the Capitol building in Washington, D.C. and have cocktails with members of Congress. This is a service for all of crypto, really. Do we want BitShares to be in this business?

Offline xeroc

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Re: Legal Delegate
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2014, 12:22:41 PM »
Not sure of "we" want that .. but we should consider that the "shareholders" might want it ..

it's not only about lobbyism .. the legal sector is huge .. and once merchants want to adopt big-style .. they might want to approach someone familiar with the tech .. so IMHO this is a huge opportunity to get a "first-mover" advantage as a legal firm ..
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Offline Riverhead

Re: Legal Delegate
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2014, 01:49:15 PM »
Having a fund that can be used in the event a delegate or other member of the community runs into legal issues regarding Bitshares would be fantastic. Often, especially in the US, the best lawyer wins. It doesn't matter what is legal/illegal/etc. Good law firms are expensive. Someone going it alone would get crushed.


I would vote for a legal fund delegate with a clear mandate and transparent spending. I would trust Murderistic to run such a delegate or perhaps some other trusted person from the community.

Offline Murderistic

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Re: Legal Delegate
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2014, 04:03:58 PM »
The lobbying would be for help in getting into more channels, in working with gov for favorable regulation if it must happen, or clarity and understanding of crypto more.

Legal is just that, to assist in the unfortunate occurrence of a legal problem for a delegate or BitShares in general.

Just wanting to avoid regulation or legal does not mean they will avoid us if they want to, right wrong or otherwise.

For me, I would consider this a very important role in the BitShares delegate ecosystem.

Legal could also be used in other countries to lobby for greater use and adoption of crypto as well...

Any other thoughts, concerns?

Offline Gentso1

Re: Legal Delegate
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2014, 07:00:54 PM »
Having a fund that can be used in the event a delegate or other member of the community runs into legal issues regarding Bitshares would be fantastic. Often, especially in the US, the best lawyer wins. It doesn't matter what is legal/illegal/etc. Good law firms are expensive. Someone going it alone would get crushed.


I would vote for a legal fund delegate with a clear mandate and transparent spending. I would trust Murderistic to run such a delegate or perhaps some other trusted person from the community.

Riverheads right on this one guys, The best lawyer/side that doesn't run out of money first is 9 out of 10 the winner.

I would suggest electing a delegate and just having someone(s) hold a key and let the funds accumulate for only 2 reasons.

1.legal trouble for Bitshares
2.legal trouble for delegates

Legal battles are $$$$$ so stockpiling money now could save a lot of trouble later.

On a side note I see I3 changed legal firm, they may be able to suggest someone and we could put them on retainer.

Not for lobbying in anyway.....leave marketing to marketers

Offline donkeypong

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Re: Legal Delegate
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2014, 01:24:03 AM »
I would support this if we found the right people to run it. A balance would need to be struck between funds for a legal reserve and funds for lobbying on legislation/regulations. And then, the delegate would need to have the freedom to act with discretion (rather like a trustee) to spend the legal funds when needed. I would not want the delegate to be same person who would get retained for legal representation (the money would just be spent needlessly); it needs to be someone who can direct the funds to the proper places when needed. A little legal expertise or knowledge could come in handy there for the delegate, but I won't pay much extra for it.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 01:27:41 AM by donkeypong »

Offline fuzzy

Re: Legal Delegate
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2014, 01:46:11 AM »
I would support this if we found the right people to run it. A balance would need to be struck between funds for a legal reserve and funds for lobbying on legislation/regulations. And then, the delegate would need to have the freedom to act with discretion (rather like a trustee) to spend the legal funds when needed. I would not want the delegate to be same person who would get retained for legal representation (the money would just be spent needlessly); it needs to be someone who can direct the funds to the proper places when needed. A little legal expertise or knowledge could come in handy there for the delegate, but I won't pay much extra for it.

Would it be possible to have it pooled in an account and we wait for the voting mechanism to be simplified and implemented so we can unlock those funds to specific accounts, as the need arises, by popular vote?
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Offline xeroc

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Re: Legal Delegate
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2014, 07:18:25 AM »
Would it be possible to have it pooled in an account and we wait for the voting mechanism to be simplified and implemented so we can unlock those funds to specific accounts, as the need arises, by popular vote?
I hope so .. at least with turing scripting that will be possible for sure ..
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Offline CLains

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Re: Legal Delegate
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2014, 09:38:33 AM »
Public, political awareness will help cause an outrage should the established powers try something unethical. Affiliating with existing political factions that fight for freedom of information and that are open to general libertarian ideas might be a good idea.

I helped making the Pirate Party in Norway official just a couple of years ago, and I think that whole network (there are Pirate Parties all over the world) would help stick up for us should something happen. The Australian WikiLeaks party is also something that might become bigger as generation Y comes into power. And this as well,

http://torrentfreak.com/kim-dotcom-announces-united-states-political-party-141202/

The Internet Party US and Bitshares could be a perfect match....

There is also the potential to affiliate with political individuals like Ron/Rand Paul, Falkvinge, Assange, etc. Political affiliations with the parties and people who try to work from within the system serves both to protect our nascent growth and as an on-ramp to the new, parallel society.

Offline Murderistic

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Re: Legal Delegate
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2014, 10:32:03 PM »
I would prefer not to be in charge of this particular delegate, perhaps the 101 voted in would have decision making power on the funds, and a smaller group have access to reach them if needed, or the top delegate would have access and if they are not available a way to send it to next delegate on the list, all the way down to the 101st delegate?

 

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