Author [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] Topic: What is the property of DPOS that allows 1 block confirmations?  (Read 462 times)

Offline gamey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2252
    • View Profile
What is the property of DPOS that allows 1 block confirmations?
« on: December 03, 2014, 05:28:21 PM »


How does this work?  What is the difference between a DPOS block and a POW block that allows 1 block  vs 6 blocks recommended confirmation times?  Is this because the delegates are elected and thus the trust level is higher for the block-signers?  Or is it something else?
I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline Ander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3488
    • View Profile
  • BTS: Ander
Re: What is the property of DPOS that allows 1 block confirmations?
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2014, 07:01:53 PM »
I wrote a reply, and then realized that I had just accidentally explained the ripple protocol instead, lol.

Maybe there is something here to answer you:
wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/DPOS
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline bytemaster

Re: What is the property of DPOS that allows 1 block confirmations?
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2014, 07:07:57 PM »

How does this work?  What is the difference between a DPOS block and a POW block that allows 1 block  vs 6 blocks recommended confirmation times?  Is this because the delegates are elected and thus the trust level is higher for the block-signers?  Or is it something else?

1) The probability of a FORK after a block has been produced is very low.  < 0.01%  where as Bitcoin has 25 orphans in the last 22 days (about 1 per day) which translates into 0.7% of blocks are orphaned.   
2) We are normally at 100% delegate participation and when we are less than that it is more often because a delegate was DOWN and didn't produce a block than because they produced a fork.

It would be interesting to have SVK produce a chart that shows the median time between orphaned blocks / forks.   Right now bitsharesblocks reports 1 fork in the last 24 hours which puts us at .01%.

3) Forks are almost always resolved within 30 seconds.
4) When a fork is produced it is very likely that all delegates have seen and processed your transaction and thus no alternative transactions can be broadcast and the next delegate is almost certain to include your transaction.
5) All delegates are much more trusted than miners.

So after 1 block (10 seconds) we are mathematically over 70x less likely to orphan than Bitcoin after 1 block (10 minutes).   After 3 blocks (30 seconds) any random orphan will have been resolved and the probability of alternative chains is much lower .000001 than Bitcoin.    By the time Bitcoin gets to .7% orphan probability (1 block) BitShares has 60 blocks which would have a probability of being orphaned 1*10^-120. 

 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11957
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BTS: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
Re: What is the property of DPOS that allows 1 block confirmations?
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2014, 07:51:05 PM »
We need this in a FAQ ... or at least in the wiki ... i am mobile atm .. who can do it?
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu powered by ChainSquad GmbH

Offline gamey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2252
    • View Profile
Re: What is the property of DPOS that allows 1 block confirmations?
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2014, 07:56:30 PM »
We need this in a FAQ ... or at least in the wiki ... i am mobile atm .. who can do it?

I'll throw it in the wiki.  The answer is thorough.  Thanks, DanMaster.

edit - wow half the FAQ is PTS/AGS.   It is good information to keep around, but I am not sure where in the wiki.  RAQ?  (Rarely asked questions - separate page.)
« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 07:58:33 PM by gamey »
I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11957
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BTS: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
Re: What is the property of DPOS that allows 1 block confirmations?
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2014, 08:03:41 PM »
Can you put it into an FAQ paragraph directly in DPOS?
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu powered by ChainSquad GmbH

Offline bytemaster

Re: What is the property of DPOS that allows 1 block confirmations?
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2014, 09:33:30 PM »
I just recorded a Video for bitshares.tv that addresses this topic.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline Ander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3488
    • View Profile
  • BTS: Ander
Re: What is the property of DPOS that allows 1 block confirmations?
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2014, 09:37:15 PM »
I just recorded a Video for bitshares.tv that addresses this topic.

Awesome!  I cant wait to watch it, will it be out soon?
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline bytemaster

Re: What is the property of DPOS that allows 1 block confirmations?
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2014, 09:39:06 PM »
I just recorded a Video for bitshares.tv that addresses this topic.

Awesome!  I cant wait to watch it, will it be out soon?

I don't know the intended release schedule.  bitshares.tv will launch sometime in the next week.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline gamey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2252
    • View Profile
Re: What is the property of DPOS that allows 1 block confirmations?
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2014, 10:20:12 PM »

Back in the 80s when I was only 35...   MTV had tons of commercials that said.. "I want my MTV"..  So now we need a "I want my bitshares TV"..  Hmm.. doesn't sound as good.   Maybe a big bitshares b with TV ... "I want my b t v".

The reason they did it was to encourage people to demand cable companies to adopt MTV.  Anyway ... highly irrelevant...

OR IS IT !?
I speak for myself and only myself.

zerosum

  • Guest
Re: What is the property of DPOS that allows 1 block confirmations?
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2014, 10:41:45 PM »

Back in the 80s when I was only 35...   MTV had tons of commercials that said.. "I want my MTV"..  So now we need a "I want my bitshares TV"..  Hmm.. doesn't sound as good.   Maybe a big bitshares b with TV ... "I want my b t v".

The reason they did it was to encourage people to demand cable companies to adopt MTV.  Anyway ... highly irrelevant...

OR IS IT !?
BTV is a registered trademark in....wait for it...

Offline hpenvy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 451
    • View Profile
Re: What is the property of DPOS that allows 1 block confirmations?
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2014, 05:29:57 AM »

Back in the 80s when I was only 35...   MTV had tons of commercials that said.. "I want my MTV"..  So now we need a "I want my bitshares TV"..  Hmm.. doesn't sound as good.   Maybe a big bitshares b with TV ... "I want my b t v".

The reason they did it was to encourage people to demand cable companies to adopt MTV.  Anyway ... highly irrelevant...

OR IS IT !?

 +5%
=============
btsx address: hpenvy
Tips appreciated for good work

 

Google+