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Offline NewMine

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Accounting question
« on: December 15, 2014, 10:34:57 PM »

In the https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtRmp4NraeAydElLdUpwSERlY3luVkZNZnoxRm5md3c&usp=sharing#gid=0 there has been 2171BTC cashed out and the USD amount marked as "not spent" and many of the dollar values are missing. Where is this money? At current prices, which is at the low end of the spectrum over the past year, this equates to $749,000.00 Is there another google doc somewhere that accounts for this?

Also, why is Virginia Tech getting $55,000.00?

P.S. That google doc is a mess and gives no real checks and balance as you do not have running totals for what has been banked vs. what has been spent. It also appears that you guys have been actively trading BTC for BTSX and BTSX for BTC from July 30 through November 2. What is this about?

sumantso

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Re: Accounting question
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2014, 11:00:04 PM »
I have one question: How much in total did Brian and co. receive?

Offline teenagecheese

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Re: Accounting question
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2014, 04:22:06 AM »
NewMine, there is some announcement somewhere from follow my vote that explains this but, I know Follow My Vote started with support from the Virginia Tech entrepreneurial community before they joined Bitshares. I believe they were originally granted some "VOTES" as a reward for their help back before Follow My Vote merged with Bitshares as it is now. So this would just be honoring that donation and is legit.


Offline NewMine

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Re: Accounting question
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2014, 04:18:42 PM »
Anyone point me to the sheet that explains where this over $750K was spent? Or, if it has not been spent, why do BM, Toast and Stan have 100% delegates if there is money in the coffers to still pay them from AGS donations?

Offline bytemaster

Re: Accounting question
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2014, 06:19:08 PM »
Anyone point me to the sheet that explains where this over $750K was spent? Or, if it has not been spent, why do BM, Toast and Stan have 100% delegates if there is money in the coffers to still pay them from AGS donations?

There was a sub spread sheet managed by Stan that should account for 100% of the BTC spending.   The vast majority of it has been spent.

10 Full Time Equivalent Developers for the past year adds up to about $1,000,000 if you use an average salary of $100K (est)
Lawyers, Accountants, and other consultants probably totaled about $250,000 (est)
Chinese team received 10%  of donations ($250,000)
Marketing team spent 10% of donations (conferences, web sites, videos, salaries, travel, ads) ($250,000)
Follow My Vote advanced $250,000 to get their team and buy in. 
Virginia Tech is working with us to advance crypto awareness among their students  $55,000 (media, promotion, tax write off)

All told we have spent in 2014 an amount equal to the dollar value of the BTC donations at the time we received them and thus our expenses offset our income.

Was it as efficient as possible?  No.   Was it at least 65% efficient and thus better than holding the funds and paying 35% in taxes?  Most likely.

Are there funds left over?  Yes we have BTS with a cost basis of 0 that we are holding in reserve to handle any future legal/tax issues along with making special deals when the time comes. 
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Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline Ander

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Re: Accounting question
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2014, 06:59:25 PM »
I feel that overall, we got a ton of value for the money. 

In terms of marketing, the Chinese team overperformed.  We complain about the other marketing teams, (mainly because we havent seen the results yet and haven't been given much idea about the plans that are coming - perhaps in three months we will feel that this money was also well spent?).  But even then, we have had one marketing team hit it big, and they made BTS gain a strong chinese community.


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Offline NewMine

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Re: Accounting question
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2014, 07:15:35 PM »
Anyone point me to the sheet that explains where this over $750K was spent? Or, if it has not been spent, why do BM, Toast and Stan have 100% delegates if there is money in the coffers to still pay them from AGS donations?

There was a sub spread sheet managed by Stan that should account for 100% of the BTC spending.   The vast majority of it has been spent.

10 Full Time Equivalent Developers for the past year adds up to about $1,000,000 if you use an average salary of $100K (est)
Lawyers, Accountants, and other consultants probably totaled about $250,000 (est)
Chinese team received 10%  of donations ($250,000)
Marketing team spent 10% of donations (conferences, web sites, videos, salaries, travel, ads) ($250,000)
Follow My Vote advanced $250,000 to get their team and buy in. 
Virginia Tech is working with us to advance crypto awareness among their students  $55,000 (media, promotion, tax write off)

All told we have spent in 2014 an amount equal to the dollar value of the BTC donations at the time we received them and thus our expenses offset our income.

Was it as efficient as possible?  No.   Was it at least 65% efficient and thus better than holding the funds and paying 35% in taxes?  Most likely.

Are there funds left over?  Yes we have BTS with a cost basis of 0 that we are holding in reserve to handle any future legal/tax issues along with making special deals when the time comes.

Thanks. Is that spread sheet available? I figured the money had to be spent but the google doc has zero usd expenditures and all BTC, PTS and BTSX liquidations are marked as the dollar value unspent.


Offline Stan

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Re: Accounting question
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2014, 09:05:33 PM »
Quote
Thanks. Is that spread sheet available? I figured the money had to be spent but the google doc has zero usd expenditures and all BTC, PTS and BTSX liquidations are marked as the dollar value unspent.

You can see it on the third tab of the same spreadsheet link you have been referencing. 

So far, the BTS wallet doesn't give us very good tools for dumping out a self-documenting ledger.

Generally, I agree, the spreadsheets are nearly incomprehensible, even to me six months later.   They capture each transfer event, but not very clearly.

We are working with Grant Thornton, an international accounting firm, to figure out how to document this for the governments who will need to review it.  Rather than make an attempt myself to clean this up, I plan to publish the backup documents we will have prepared by then for the inevitable auditors.

Meanwhile, to answer your main question, when a line says "sold, not spent" that means that I have transferred that amount to some exchange (BTER, BTC38, Cryptsy, BitStamp) to convert into another currency (BTS, PTS, BTC, USD) and it has not actually been spent at that point.  Anything that gets converted to USD is usually wired to our corporate account at Wells Fargo where it is used to pay bills and payroll.  Then it has been spent - usually within 30 to 60 days.

These events are documented inside traditional accounting software (QuickBooks) which we then use for preparing tax statements.  That's why you don't see them on Google Docs.

Also, as BM disclosed back in August, there was a brief period when we converted about 600 BTC to BTS for diversification reasons.  There have been other times when we bought and sold small amounts for various purposes.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 09:12:06 PM by Stan »
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

 

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