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Offline hasher

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Macroeconomic point: currency / DAC with VAT / tax feature
« on: December 06, 2013, 09:45:24 AM »

 :)
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 06:21:44 AM by hasher »

Offline que23

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Re: Macroeconomic point: currency / DAC with VAT / tax feature
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2013, 02:33:01 PM »
The main issue with Bitcoin like currencies is not their anonymity itself, because this barrier could be easily overcome even with fiat currencies, but its untaxable nature, what if we could make currency with VAT feature customized by voting proof mechanism?

That will help to solve many issues with socialization of cryptoeconomy to mainstream,
for example, people need to finance government, defence, medical support, pension funds on basic level to keep very minimum of social services, to control anarchy, but without taxation it impossible to plan budget, that is the problem.

I had a real laugh at "to control anarchy,". I'd love to support a government committed to protecting property rights. But a government that can just take or print the money it wants has no interest in catering to my needs.
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Offline bytemaster

Re: Macroeconomic point: currency / DAC with VAT / tax feature
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2013, 04:37:09 PM »
I suggest you think outside the box you have lived in your whole life and stop assuming a government is needed or that you need to "control a society without rulers and ruled". 

1) Your approach is to create a decentralized solution for funding the ultimate form of centralization.
2) The goal is to decentralize power to end corruption
3) Imagine a world where justice, defense, dispute resolution, medical, retirement, charity can all be provided at the highest quality, lowest cost, with out the need to resort to impose a double standard between the 'ruled' and the 'rulers'?    A double standard that says the two may be held to different moral standards. 

I set out to invent the solutions to these problems rather than simply accept that the only way to have justice for some is to cause an injustice for others.  Create a DAC that causes selfish motives to align with your desired global outcome and does not depend upon force to do so.   
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline hasher

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Re: Macroeconomic point: currency / DAC with VAT / tax feature
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2013, 04:51:06 PM »
The main issue with Bitcoin like currencies is not their anonymity itself, because this barrier could be easily overcome even with fiat currencies, but its untaxable nature, what if we could make currency with VAT feature customized by voting proof mechanism?

That will help to solve many issues with socialization of cryptoeconomy to mainstream,
for example, people need to finance government, defence, medical support, pension funds on basic level to keep very minimum of social services, to control anarchy, but without taxation it impossible to plan budget, that is the problem.

I had a real laugh at "to control anarchy,". I'd love to support a government committed to protecting property rights. But a government that can just take or print the money it wants has no interest in catering to my needs.

well, if we talk about US government, they do not printing money, truly speaking US government have no power to print money at all, its banksters business, and banks "printing" debts for people/government needs in form of USD, and government forced to take these debts from investors, speculators and banks when they can not collect enough taxes to cover their spends on social programs.

But if we could change matter of things, and offer another system, cryptocurrency Budgeting for municipal and federal governments, that will make difference.

No more debts, no more banksters monopoly, independence of governments from oligarchs, true straight democracy, because if people decide to elect another Congress, they will vote through Bitxxxx system to not pay taxes.
 ...:)

 

Offline hasher

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Re: Macroeconomic point: currency / DAC with VAT / tax feature
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2013, 04:58:40 PM »
I suggest you think outside the box you have lived in your whole life and stop assuming a government is needed or that you need to "control a society without rulers and ruled". 

1) Your approach is to create a decentralized solution for funding the ultimate form of centralization.
2) The goal is to decentralize power to end corruption
3) Imagine a world where justice, defense, dispute resolution, medical, retirement, charity can all be provided at the highest quality, lowest cost, with out the need to resort to impose a double standard between the 'ruled' and the 'rulers'?    A double standard that says the two may be held to different moral standards. 

I set out to invent the solutions to these problems rather than simply accept that the only way to have justice for some is to cause an injustice for others.  Create a DAC that causes selfish motives to align with your desired global outcome and does not depend upon force to do so.   
ok, maybe im wrong, i just tried to analyze what will happen if modern government system stop works as it should, and how we going to live in near future  :)

Offline bytemaster

Re: Macroeconomic point: currency / DAC with VAT / tax feature
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2013, 06:47:50 PM »
I suggest you think outside the box you have lived in your whole life and stop assuming a government is needed or that you need to "control a society without rulers and ruled". 

1) Your approach is to create a decentralized solution for funding the ultimate form of centralization.
2) The goal is to decentralize power to end corruption
3) Imagine a world where justice, defense, dispute resolution, medical, retirement, charity can all be provided at the highest quality, lowest cost, with out the need to resort to impose a double standard between the 'ruled' and the 'rulers'?    A double standard that says the two may be held to different moral standards. 

I set out to invent the solutions to these problems rather than simply accept that the only way to have justice for some is to cause an injustice for others.  Create a DAC that causes selfish motives to align with your desired global outcome and does not depend upon force to do so.   
ok, maybe im wrong, i just tried to analyze what will happen if modern government system stop works as it should, and how we going to live in near future  :)

The modern government system HAS stopped working as its proponents claim it should.   We need to create a system that does work.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Macroeconomic point: currency / DAC with VAT / tax feature
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2013, 08:37:14 PM »
Quote
best example democracy in the world,

And thus a warning to all that democracy is not an ideal to be achieved, but something to fear.  Democracy is the modern equivalent of 'divine right of kings' in that it deceives people into believing that through voting certain people may gain the right to initiate violence against people who did not consent to the voting process.   It is this false legitimacy that ultimately enables tyranny.   Lastly, even if you agree with the premise, for Democracy to be fair everyone must understand what they are voting for and it must assume people vote for what is in the best interest of society instead of what is in their best interest.   Here you will quickly discover that most people have no clue what is in their own best interest and even less of a clue as to what is in the best interest of society.   These people are then manipulated by whomever has the best advertising that appeals to emotion, greed, hate, rather than objective analysis.   

The point of the Invictus Movement is to show a new way, the DAC way, of governing society in a decentralized voluntary way.  A way that is entirely non-violent and yet inescapable in its ability to motivate just outcomes, fair trade, and enforcement of contracts. 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline luckybit

Re: Macroeconomic point: currency / DAC with VAT / tax feature
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2013, 10:10:38 PM »
I suggest you think outside the box you have lived in your whole life and stop assuming a government is needed or that you need to "control a society without rulers and ruled". 

1) Your approach is to create a decentralized solution for funding the ultimate form of centralization.
2) The goal is to decentralize power to end corruption
3) Imagine a world where justice, defense, dispute resolution, medical, retirement, charity can all be provided at the highest quality, lowest cost, with out the need to resort to impose a double standard between the 'ruled' and the 'rulers'?    A double standard that says the two may be held to different moral standards. 

I set out to invent the solutions to these problems rather than simply accept that the only way to have justice for some is to cause an injustice for others.  Create a DAC that causes selfish motives to align with your desired global outcome and does not depend upon force to do so.   
ok, maybe im wrong, i just tried to analyze what will happen if modern government system stop works as it should, and how we going to live in near future  :)

The modern government system HAS stopped working as its proponents claim it should.   We need to create a system that does work.
im not american, but i think, US system is still the best example democracy in the world, but it have degraded many years ago (maybe in Reigan period) when banksters changed from gold standard to debt standard, and receive unprecedented power and influence over industrial sector,
some people in Russia think it was because USA failed in Vietnam and faced problems with low economy growth, debt growth helped US to overcome stagnation, but now we see Rome in last days of its existance :)

PS yea i know its high political bullshit, and i hope we will live without it our P2P way  :)

The US is not the best democracy in the world. In the US you cannot even pass a budget. If the US was alright do you think Bitcoin would be catching on so quickly?
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