How to increase the value of Devshares

[merockstar]

well yes brain , for example i really want to play around with bitshares , shorting the usd and such ,
but has a noob am too afraid of mucking something up and losing my bts (kinda was the same with bitcoin at first) ,
 so yes really looking forward to devshares and playing around with it kind of like a forex demo account.

PS: pinky was the good looking one ;p

I'm going to chime in to say that I would support this. I went to short bitUSD back at $0.013 and said "what the hell? interest rates? awww shit gotta research more now. how am i supposed to know what price to set the interest at?"

having devshares to dick around with sounds invaluable.

[Akado]

I thought devshares were designed for testing the network so I think people shouldn't worry on increasing their value. They were not created to make a profit. As long as they have non-zero value, they can be used for testing. I really think this goes against the concept of devshares, unless I got it wrong.

[Stan]

has the devshares share drop happened yet?

if not this could be a great marketing tool , think about it , when did most people get (understand)bitcoin? when you heard about it, or when you tried it out.

i heard about bitcoin many times but did not appreciate it till after i got enough bitcoin from a faucet to send bitcoin from one address to another.
no need for a sh$t loads of forms to fill out, just send and ka-ching its in my other wallet.

also did not appreciate  bitshares till i tried bitbtc , its awesome earning interest on bitcoin knowing i can take it out at anytime, (unlike pbmining(facepalm) cryptostocks(facepalm) bitcoin-trader.biz(facepalm) butterflylabs(Dont ask))

if you are looking to increase the value of Devshares, then share them out to has many people has possible so people can try out the bitshares platform for themselves.
its a much better way of understanding/promoting bitshares than interviews, articles  and the other promotional campaigns.
give them something to play with.

having more people/accounts on the devshares system would be helpful for bug hunting and looking for ways to improve the system, that is value right?

could also be less of a problem diluting Devshares , once a year create more coins and share them out.

something like
%20bts  10faucet 5pts  5bitcoin 5litecoin 5ripple 5stellar 5ltbcoin 5counterparty 5nxt 5namecoin 5darkcoin 5ltbcoin  5maidsafe 5ltbcoin 5doge

its just an idea , but if i got Dev-namecoin , Dev-nxt or other Dev-coin's dropped on my account i would check it out. especially if its free

So... DevShares becomes both a Proving Grounds and a Training Grounds!

Long ago Charles Hoskinson and I pondered a business model that had such a "training simulator" for people to safely experiment with beginning and advanced trading methods and tools...

I forget which of us said, "Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?"

well yes brain , for example i really want to play around with bitshares , shorting the usd and such ,
but has a noob am too afraid of mucking something up and losing my bts (kinda was the same with bitcoin at first) ,
 so yes really looking forward to devshares and playing around with it kind of like a forex demo account.

PS: pinky was the good looking one ;p

Egad, Brain, Brilliant!

[script]

has the devshares share drop happened yet?

if not this could be a great marketing tool , think about it , when did most people get (understand)bitcoin? when you heard about it, or when you tried it out.

i heard about bitcoin many times but did not appreciate it till after i got enough bitcoin from a faucet to send bitcoin from one address to another.
no need for a sh$t loads of forms to fill out, just send and ka-ching its in my other wallet.

also did not appreciate  bitshares till i tried bitbtc , its awesome earning interest on bitcoin knowing i can take it out at anytime, (unlike pbmining(facepalm) cryptostocks(facepalm) bitcoin-trader.biz(facepalm) butterflylabs(Dont ask))

if you are looking to increase the value of Devshares, then share them out to has many people has possible so people can try out the bitshares platform for themselves.
its a much better way of understanding/promoting bitshares than interviews, articles  and the other promotional campaigns.
give them something to play with.

having more people/accounts on the devshares system would be helpful for bug hunting and looking for ways to improve the system, that is value right?

could also be less of a problem diluting Devshares , once a year create more coins and share them out.

something like
%20bts  10faucet 5pts  5bitcoin 5litecoin 5ripple 5stellar 5ltbcoin 5counterparty 5nxt 5namecoin 5darkcoin 5ltbcoin  5maidsafe 5ltbcoin 5doge

its just an idea , but if i got Dev-namecoin , Dev-nxt or other Dev-coin's dropped on my account i would check it out. especially if its free

So... DevShares becomes both a Proving Grounds and a Training Grounds!

Long ago Charles Hoskinson and I pondered a business model that had such a "training simulator" for people to safely experiment with beginning and advanced trading methods and tools...

I forget which of us said, "Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?"

well yes brain , for example i really want to play around with bitshares , shorting the usd and such ,
but has a noob am too afraid of mucking something up and losing my bts (kinda was the same with bitcoin at first) ,
 so yes really looking forward to devshares and playing around with it kind of like a forex demo account.

PS: pinky was the good looking one ;p

[Stan]

has the devshares share drop happened yet?

if not this could be a great marketing tool , think about it , when did most people get (understand)bitcoin? when you heard about it, or when you tried it out.

i heard about bitcoin many times but did not appreciate it till after i got enough bitcoin from a faucet to send bitcoin from one address to another.
no need for a sh$t loads of forms to fill out, just send and ka-ching its in my other wallet.

also did not appreciate  bitshares till i tried bitbtc , its awesome earning interest on bitcoin knowing i can take it out at anytime, (unlike pbmining(facepalm) cryptostocks(facepalm) bitcoin-trader.biz(facepalm) butterflylabs(Dont ask))

if you are looking to increase the value of Devshares, then share them out to has many people has possible so people can try out the bitshares platform for themselves.
its a much better way of understanding/promoting bitshares than interviews, articles  and the other promotional campaigns.
give them something to play with.

having more people/accounts on the devshares system would be helpful for bug hunting and looking for ways to improve the system, that is value right?

could also be less of a problem diluting Devshares , once a year create more coins and share them out.

something like
%20bts  10faucet 5pts  5bitcoin 5litecoin 5ripple 5stellar 5ltbcoin 5counterparty 5nxt 5namecoin 5darkcoin 5ltbcoin  5maidsafe 5ltbcoin 5doge

its just an idea , but if i got Dev-namecoin , Dev-nxt or other Dev-coin's dropped on my account i would check it out. especially if its free

So... DevShares becomes both a Proving Grounds and a Training Grounds!

Long ago Charles Hoskinson and I pondered a business model that had such a "training simulator" for people to safely experiment with beginning and advanced trading methods and tools...

I forget which of us said, "Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?"

[script]

has the devshares share drop happened yet?

if not this could be a great marketing tool , think about it , when did most people get (understand)bitcoin? when you heard about it, or when you tried it out.

i heard about bitcoin many times but did not appreciate it till after i got enough bitcoin from a faucet to send bitcoin from one address to another.
no need for a sh$t loads of forms to fill out, just send and ka-ching its in my other wallet.

also did not appreciate  bitshares till i tried bitbtc , its awesome earning interest on bitcoin knowing i can take it out at anytime, (unlike pbmining(facepalm) cryptostocks(facepalm) bitcoin-trader.biz(facepalm) butterflylabs(Dont ask))

if you are looking to increase the value of Devshares, then share them out to has many people has possible so people can try out the bitshares platform for themselves.
its a much better way of understanding/promoting bitshares than interviews, articles  and the other promotional campaigns.
give them something to play with.

having more people/accounts on the devshares system would be helpful for bug hunting and looking for ways to improve the system, that is value right?

could also be less of a problem diluting Devshares , once a year create more coins and share them out.

something like
%20bts  10faucet 5pts  5bitcoin 5litecoin 5ripple 5stellar 5ltbcoin 5counterparty 5nxt 5namecoin 5darkcoin 5ltbcoin  5maidsafe 5ltbcoin 5doge

its just an idea , but if i got Dev-namecoin , Dev-nxt or other Dev-coin's dropped on my account i would check it out. especially if its free
 

[arhag]

we really do need and want DevShares to have some real value because only through having real value will a distributed user base actively test it; especially the market features. You cannot test BitAssets throughly unless the collateral has value.

Buying and burning DVS ensures that DVS will have non-zero value, because those seeking to get out of DVS will be able to find a buyer (assuming the delegate sells BTS for DVS using a no-reserve auction).

Yeah, it needs to have non-zero value, but that doesn't mean it has to have large value like so many people seem to be afraid of. If DVS has a decent amount of value by itself, then we don't need to spend any BTS funds supporting its value. If it would be worthless by itself, then some amount of support is necessary, but just enough to get us the desired properties we want for proper testing. Either way we have strong controls over how valuable DVS will be (with the exception of the unlikely but non-zero possibility that the chaos of the crowd latches onto DVS in a meme-like fashion and it gains a stronger network effect than BTS, but that risk is so incredibly small that it can be effectively ignored).

By the way, instead of just buying and burning DVS, we could use lotteries (rewarded in BTS or BitUSD) to give DVS value. Every month a snapshot could be taken and a winner chosen (where 1 DVS = 1 lottery ticket). The monthly lottery reward can be set to the lowest amount that gives us the desired DVS value. We can also be more efficient in how we spend the subsidy. We could give more weight to DVS in a short position for example to encourage people to short if there is not enough short testing naturally occurring. We could distinguish between regular DVS just sitting in a balance for a month (which would get the base lottery weight) and DVS that has been used in an advanced transaction that we are trying to test (multisig, escrow, etc.) at least once in the month (which would get a larger lottery weight).

[theoretical]

Have you read the devshares announcement / mission / directives? https://bytemaster.github.io/update/2014/12/19/The-Value-of-DevShares/

Yes.  From the announcement:

we really do need and want DevShares to have some real value because only through having real value will a distributed user base actively test it; especially the market features. You cannot test BitAssets throughly unless the collateral has value.

Buying and burning DVS ensures that DVS will have non-zero value, because those seeking to get out of DVS will be able to find a buyer (assuming the delegate sells BTS for DVS using a no-reserve auction).

Can we elect a delegate to buy and burn my personal testnet shares?

Yes, provided you have a convincing reason that doing so is a good value proposition for BTS holders.

bytemaster's post outlines some reasons BTS holders want DVS to have value.

[santaclause102]

I was listening to the last Mumble chat where BM talks about Devshares and I feel its going to suck value out of Bitshares. Which would have been fine except that Devshares decided to allocate 67% to AGS/PTS when we suffered loss in value when buying them off.

I am baffled now as to why BTS paid for them if they continue to get sharedropped on.

how does it suck value out of bts? I'd say it adds lots of value since there is a test network for bts.

[sumantso]

I was listening to the last Mumble chat where BM talks about Devshares and I feel its going to suck value out of Bitshares. Which would have been fine except that Devshares decided to allocate 67% to AGS/PTS when we suffered loss in value when buying them off.

I am baffled now as to why BTS paid for them if they continue to get sharedropped on.

[toast]

I will actively fight against a delegate buying DVS to burn them, or inflating BTS to drop on DVS. No no no

Could you explain your reasoning for this?

Can we elect a delegate to buy and burn my personal testnet shares?
Have you read the devshares announcement / mission / directives? https://bytemaster.github.io/update/2014/12/19/The-Value-of-DevShares/

[theoretical]

I will actively fight against a delegate buying DVS to burn them, or inflating BTS to drop on DVS. No no no

Could you explain your reasoning for this?

[clayop]

Dev shares need to have NO value at all. Otherwise people will just hoard them and not test on the platform because they have/may have "value". Nobody will test the network if they have a chance of losing the shares through experimentation .

I think Devshares should have value for "economic" experiments

[bytemaster]

Dev shares need to have NO value at all. Otherwise people will just hoard them and not test on the platform because they have/may have "value". Nobody will test the network if they have a chance of losing the shares through experimentation .

You cannot test BitAssets with 0 value.    People need to USE the network because it has value and the USE of the network will be the testing.

Just like we find bugs with BitShares today when people USE it... despite it working with our wallets.

[islandking]

Dev shares need to have NO value at all. Otherwise people will just hoard them and not test on the platform because they have/may have "value". Nobody will test the network if they have a chance of losing the shares through experimentation .