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Offline RenaudGagne

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BITUSD P2P Lending
« on: December 23, 2014, 06:16:10 AM »

Hey Everyone,

Fairly new here but having a blast. I have been interested in p2p lending for a while but in Canada, too much regulations makes it impossible.

How can we do this as a DAC?

Also, talking about the economics of it would be interesting too(BITUSD / BITGOLD ?). Jump into the discussion if you like the idea. :D

 




Offline bytemaster

Re: BITUSD P2P Lending
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2014, 06:29:34 AM »
Collateralized lending is planned for BTS.   Unfortunately, what most people want is uncollateralized, trust-based lending.  For the uncollateralized model to work you need a global ID / reputation system and that is under development for BTS.   
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline BTSdac

Re: BITUSD P2P Lending
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2014, 07:30:41 AM »

yes , base on block technology , many services can been supply base on BTS
great way  +5%. people can use lend bitsud to company  and get interest
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Offline RenaudGagne

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Re: BITUSD P2P Lending
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2014, 08:34:06 AM »
Thank you @bytemaster I didnt make the distinction between collateralized and uncolaterized. (Will look into it)

Offline RenaudGagne

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Re: BITUSD P2P Lending
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2014, 08:37:58 AM »
I get it now. It would be closer to a p2p bond market?

Offline Mysto

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Re: BITUSD P2P Lending
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2014, 06:33:19 PM »
Collateralized lending is planned for BTS.   Unfortunately, what most people want is uncollateralized, trust-based lending.  For the uncollateralized model to work you need a global ID / reputation system and that is under development for BTS.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=9806.0
« Last Edit: December 23, 2014, 06:41:37 PM by Mysto »

Offline RenaudGagne

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Re: BITUSD P2P Lending
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2014, 04:06:48 AM »
Collateralized lending is planned for BTS.   Unfortunately, what most people want is uncollateralized, trust-based lending.  For the uncollateralized model to work you need a global ID / reputation system and that is under development for BTS.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=9806.0
Good addon to the conversation.  Is there a Dev someone could refer me to?

Im a marketing strategist and this is a project I would like to sink my teeth into.

Offline biophil

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Re: BITUSD P2P Lending
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2014, 04:21:38 AM »
Collateralized lending is planned for BTS.   Unfortunately, what most people want is uncollateralized, trust-based lending.  For the uncollateralized model to work you need a global ID / reputation system and that is under development for BTS.

Would the purpose of this be to enter into true unrestricted short positions on bitAssets?

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Offline bytemaster

Re: BITUSD P2P Lending
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2014, 04:22:12 AM »
Collateralized lending is planned for BTS.   Unfortunately, what most people want is uncollateralized, trust-based lending.  For the uncollateralized model to work you need a global ID / reputation system and that is under development for BTS.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=9806.0
Good addon to the conversation.  Is there a Dev someone could refer me to?

Im a marketing strategist and this is a project I would like to sink my teeth into.

The Devs hang around the forum all the time.   This is something we could really use some help figuring out how to market.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline Mysto

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Re: BITUSD P2P Lending
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2014, 08:08:38 PM »
The Devs hang around the forum all the time.   This is something we could really use some help figuring out how to market.

I don't think marketing this would be very hard at all. Everyone is always looking for a loan and word of mouth will help quite a bit.



The funny thing is they used a referral program back around 2012-2013 as part of marketing. Now I think they are just using word of mouth and targeted ads across the internet, as well as new stories/articles.

Also as I mentioned in the other post regulation shouldn't be a huge problem. Lending Club is slowly but surely taking care of regulation.

The biggest problem I see is what do we offer that is different/more appealing. We can't just mirror everything that Lending Club does and expect to succeed. We need something that separates us from the crowd. Personally I don't think the fact that we are decentralized is going to help with that aspect very much.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2014, 08:10:37 PM by Mysto »

Offline RenaudGagne

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Re: BITUSD P2P Lending
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2014, 01:35:43 AM »
The Devs hang around the forum all the time.   This is something we could really use some help figuring out how to market.

I don't think marketing this would be very hard at all. Everyone is always looking for a loan and word of mouth will help quite a bit.



The funny thing is they used a referral program back around 2012-2013 as part of marketing. Now I think they are just using word of mouth and targeted ads across the internet, as well as new stories/articles.

Also as I mentioned in the other post regulation shouldn't be a huge problem. Lending Club is slowly but surely taking care of regulation.

The biggest problem I see is what do we offer that is different/more appealing. We can't just mirror everything that Lending Club does and expect to succeed. We need something that separates us from the crowd. Personally I don't think the fact that we are decentralized is going to help with that aspect very much.
Great points. Usually companies with minimal marketing budget starts with boosted word of mouth (referral) and then move towards search ads.

Still,  the unique selling proposition must be crystal clear and the website has got to convert visitors into customers.

What could be different?  People can OWN shares in the DAC to add to their portfolio? International in a way the gov can't regulate too much? Multi-currency? Earn interest if no position is taken (bitusd yield)?


Offline Mysto

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Re: BITUSD P2P Lending
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2014, 02:29:35 AM »
What could be different?  People can OWN shares in the DAC to add to their portfolio? Earn interest if no position is taken (bitusd yield)?
I think if we could we should leave it on the bitshares blockchain and not create a new DAC.

Owning shares would be unique if Lending Club didn't start trading on the NYSE 2 weeks ago...
https://www.google.com/finance?cid=291564398667183

International in a way the gov can't regulate too much? Multi-currency?
Yea that is one thing that could help us stand out. We could allow users from around the world to trade loans among each other as well as issue a loan to someone in a different country.

Other things that might help us stand out are...
We could allow people to trade notes (loans) for almost nothing. Right now it's 1% to trade notes which is very high.
From what I remember it takes a while to trade note (I think it was 3-4 days). We could do it in a matter of seconds.

PS You have the same first name (Renaud) as the CEO of Lending Club... :o :o coincidence?
I think not! lol

Offline bitsapphire

Re: BITUSD P2P Lending
« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2014, 01:20:38 PM »
Collateralized lending is planned for BTS.   Unfortunately, what most people want is uncollateralized, trust-based lending.  For the uncollateralized model to work you need a global ID / reputation system and that is under development for BTS.

Once the scripting language is up the way I would approach this is IOU tokens (like bonds) + external credit rating feeds. As a debtor you issue your IOUs to your creditors through crowdfunding. The debtor gets the bitUSD, the creditors get tradable IOUs. Some people or even contracts might even split and repackage the IOUs. The lenders decide whom to trust based on the external credit score data feed, which later can be modified and replicated internally on the DAC.

My only concern is that once bitUSD achieves close parity due to higher yields, the lower bound of interest creditors will accept on the market will be the effect annual bitUSD yield, pushing large debtors such as companies out of the P2P lending network, effectively slowing down the DAC expansion.
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Offline RenaudGagne

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Re: BITUSD P2P Lending
« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2014, 07:13:14 PM »
Quote

My only concern is that once bitUSD achieves close parity due to higher yields, the lower bound of interest creditors will accept on the market will be the effect annual bitUSD yield, pushing large debtors such as companies out of the P2P lending network, effectively slowing down the DAC expansion.

It would make sense since the interest rates for very safe loans would compete with the yield of BITUSD.

But we must realize that we live in a very artificially low interest rates environment. In time of higher interest rates (we can only go up from here) this DAC may end up being a good place for safe loans. (When prime goes around 7% or more.


Offline RenaudGagne

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Re: BITUSD P2P Lending
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2014, 07:27:47 PM »
Quote
I think if we could we should leave it on the bitshares blockchain and not create a new DAC.
Do you mean it shouldnt be a separate software? I would like to know more about why it would be better.

Quote
We could allow users from around the world to trade loans among each other as well as issue a loan to someone in a different country.

That is mainly where I come from.  I am in Canada and there is no way for me to get into it.

To make it international, there could be an internal credit score rating. Dont know how that would work though.

Quote
We could allow people to trade notes (loans) for almost nothing. Right now it's 1% to trade notes which is very high.

I am not familar with notes. I would love to learn more about that.

Quote
PS You have the same first name (Renaud) as the CEO of Lending Club... :o :o coincidence?
I think not! lol

Haha, I didnt know! Guess there is no coincidence.

 

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