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Offline mhps

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another PTS. and another ..
« on: December 07, 2013, 03:07:23 PM »

I am trying to get my head around protoshares.

Suppose PTS proves to be successful and DACs are paying shares to PTS owners. PTS price skyrockets. Many people wish they could mined some PTS but they can't because the door is closed two years after the first PTS had been mined. Then what if someone starts another copy of PTS, or a PTS fork that has different parameters -- for example with a better set initial difficulty so that the early miners wouldn't get most of the coins within a few weeks, or with more (or less for that matter) total coins, etc. ? Because the success of the orginal PTS there is no shortage of people the new PTS can attract.  Even many of the owners of the original PTS would want to get a piece of the new PTS because they understand the value of PTS and this time they can be an early miner! Since the marketing for PTS has already been done, new DACs won't have to use the original PTS to benefit from it -- the network effect and all, would they?

Actually if PTS is really as successful as its current believers believe, I can imagine there will be as many PTS variants as there are altcoins today. Will the return of current PTS be greatly watered down then?

If this question has been asked please point me to the answer.

Offline Lighthouse

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Re: another PTS. and another ..
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2013, 03:19:53 PM »
PTS represents a 10% stake in the future productive output of Invictus Innovations for the next two years at least.  There will be lots of other things like Protoshares, the difference will be the company backing it.  Each one is a bet on the company that honors the social contract.   Invictus thinks other companies will also honor the protoshares blockchain, we'l see.   There is lots of material on their webpage describing the projects.
Before you say the price of PTS is too high, take a look at theThe Reason.  Protoshares are an entirely new type of Cryptocurrency, one that pays to hold.

Offline Stan

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Re: another PTS. and another ..
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2013, 03:47:58 PM »
I am trying to get my head around protoshares.

Suppose PTS proves to be successful and DACs are paying shares to PTS owners. PTS price skyrockets. Many people wish they could mined some PTS but they can't because the door is closed two years after the first PTS had been mined. Then what if someone starts another copy of PTS, or a PTS fork that has different parameters -- for example with a better set initial difficulty so that the early miners wouldn't get most of the coins within a few weeks, or with more (or less for that matter) total coins, etc. ? Because the success of the orginal PTS there is no shortage of people the new PTS can attract.  Even many of the owners of the original PTS would want to get a piece of the new PTS because they understand the value of PTS and this time they can be an early miner! Since the marketing for PTS has already been done, new DACs won't have to use the original PTS to benefit from it -- the network effect and all, would they?

Actually if PTS is really as successful as its current believers believe, I can imagine there will be as many PTS variants as there are altcoins today. Will the return of current PTS be greatly watered down then?

If this question has been asked please point me to the answer.

The value of a protochain is not based on how the shares come into existence, its what the shares are good for.  In this case, its the potential, quality and performance of the company or companies behind it.

Invictus will always support PTS so that sets a value floor based on Invictus' track record.  Newcomers will have to decide whether it's better for them to join the PTS freight train or launch their own.  If lots of newcomers join some other freight train, it could develop into something people want to own more. 

Such is the nature of free markets.  Such is the benefit of competition.  May the best DACs (and DACframers) win!
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline mhps

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Re: another PTS. and another ..
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2013, 12:38:10 AM »

The value of a protochain is not based on how the shares come into existence, its what the shares are good for.  In this case, its the potential, quality and performance of the company or companies behind it.

Invictus will always support PTS so that sets a value floor based on Invictus' track record.  Newcomers will have to decide whether it's better for them to join the PTS freight train or launch their own.  If lots of newcomers join some other freight train, it could develop into something people want to own more. 

Such is the nature of free markets.  Such is the benefit of competition.  May the best DACs (and DACframers) win!

What if, after Invictus has shown the way, other companies does the same thing and eat your lunch? You can't patent your mode of operations. Other companies could do better than you exactly because it's a free market. Holders of your PTS may as well hold other Invictus-alike company's PTS.

Offline Lighthouse

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Re: another PTS. and another ..
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2013, 12:49:36 AM »
What would be the incentive for users to switch from the original system they know and use currently to the new cloned system?
Before you say the price of PTS is too high, take a look at theThe Reason.  Protoshares are an entirely new type of Cryptocurrency, one that pays to hold.

Offline Stan

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Re: another PTS. and another ..
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2013, 02:17:12 AM »

The value of a protochain is not based on how the shares come into existence, its what the shares are good for.  In this case, its the potential, quality and performance of the company or companies behind it.

Invictus will always support PTS so that sets a value floor based on Invictus' track record.  Newcomers will have to decide whether it's better for them to join the PTS freight train or launch their own.  If lots of newcomers join some other freight train, it could develop into something people want to own more. 

Such is the nature of free markets.  Such is the benefit of competition.  May the best DACs (and DACframers) win!

What if, after Invictus has shown the way, other companies does the same thing and eat your lunch? You can't patent your mode of operations. Other companies could do better than you exactly because it's a free market. Holders of your PTS may as well hold other Invictus-alike company's PTS.

We will invest in whoever we think has the best product while we are building on top of her improvements to our improvements to his improvements. With free, open source software there's no such thing as building a lead and sitting on it. Having competitors to keep the pendulum swinging means a healthy market with lots of investment opportunities for everybody.
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline mhps

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Re: another PTS. and another ..
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2013, 02:21:25 AM »
What would be the incentive for users to switch from the original system they know and use currently to the new cloned system?

"switch"? You have to think what the flood of newcomers think. They don't have any stake in the original PTS and are in a disadvantaged position to get any. From the PTS clone/forks they have opportunity to become early miners/adopters. There will be clones of PTS if PTS is successful, just like alt-coins vs. BTC.

Offline Stan

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Re: another PTS. and another ..
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2013, 02:34:26 AM »
What would be the incentive for users to switch from the original system they know and use currently to the new cloned system?

"switch"? You have to think what the flood of newcomers think. They don't have any stake in the original PTS and are in a disadvantaged position to get any. From the PTS clone/forks they have opportunity to become early miners/adopters. There will be clones of PTS if PTS is successful, just like alt-coins vs. BTC.

I'll take that deal.   :)
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline mhps

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Re: another PTS. and another ..
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2013, 02:43:14 AM »
Quote
What if, after Invictus has shown the way, other companies does the same thing and eat your lunch? You can't patent your mode of operations. Other companies could do better than you exactly because it's a free market. Holders of your PTS may as well hold other Invictus-alike company's PTS.

We will invest in whoever we think has the best product while we are building on top of her improvements to our improvements to his improvements. With free, open source software there's no such thing as building a lead and sitting on it. Having competitors to keep the pendulum swinging means a healthy market with lots of investment opportunities for everybody.

That is fine.  It will be a perpetual uphill battle as an business. I guess my question boils down to what your strategy you have to keep your edge.  Technology can be copied and improved by others. PTS' combination of limited supply and interesting prospect (high valuation) just makes alt-PTS more likely to happen.

Offline Lighthouse

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Re: another PTS. and another ..
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2013, 02:48:18 AM »
Quote
What if, after Invictus has shown the way, other companies does the same thing and eat your lunch? You can't patent your mode of operations. Other companies could do better than you exactly because it's a free market. Holders of your PTS may as well hold other Invictus-alike company's PTS.

We will invest in whoever we think has the best product while we are building on top of her improvements to our improvements to his improvements. With free, open source software there's no such thing as building a lead and sitting on it. Having competitors to keep the pendulum swinging means a healthy market with lots of investment opportunities for everybody.

That is fine.  It will be a perpetual uphill battle as an business. I guess my question boils down to what your strategy you have to keep your edge.  Technology can be copied and improved by others. PTS' combination of limited supply and interesting prospect (high valuation) just makes alt-PTS more likely to happen.

alt-PTS are inevitable and desirable.  The distinguishing factor of PTS is that Invictus (and posisbly others) will honor its social contract.  Creating a PTS that does not have a company backing it will not be creating a PTS, it will be creating an altcoin. 

So a "clone" is not a clone, unless you consider your neighbors house to be a clone of yours because it is also a house. 
Before you say the price of PTS is too high, take a look at theThe Reason.  Protoshares are an entirely new type of Cryptocurrency, one that pays to hold.

Offline mhps

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Re: another PTS. and another ..
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2013, 04:20:29 AM »

alt-PTS are inevitable and desirable.  The distinguishing factor of PTS is that Invictus (and posisbly others) will honor its social contract.  Creating a PTS that does not have a company backing it will not be creating a PTS, it will be creating an altcoin. 

So a "clone" is not a clone, unless you consider your neighbors house to be a clone of yours because it is also a house.

Agreed. Others have to create a company or system around a PTS-type of infrastructure. It's not trivial but not too difficult once someone has done the heavy lifting to show the way. Plus you don't need a real successful company to sell a me-too coin backed only by the concept at a me-too price, ultimately at original PTS' cost.

Offline Lighthouse

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Re: another PTS. and another ..
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2013, 04:58:44 AM »

alt-PTS are inevitable and desirable.  The distinguishing factor of PTS is that Invictus (and posisbly others) will honor its social contract.  Creating a PTS that does not have a company backing it will not be creating a PTS, it will be creating an altcoin. 

So a "clone" is not a clone, unless you consider your neighbors house to be a clone of yours because it is also a house.

Agreed. Others have to create a company or system around a PTS-type of infrastructure. It's not trivial but not too difficult once someone has done the heavy lifting to show the way. Plus you don't need a real successful company to sell a me-too coin backed only by the concept at a me-too price, ultimately at original PTS' cost.
Yes, but those inevitable failures will just increase the value of the ones that really do hold true to the social contract.  It's a natural process.
Before you say the price of PTS is too high, take a look at theThe Reason.  Protoshares are an entirely new type of Cryptocurrency, one that pays to hold.

Offline mhps

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Re: another PTS. and another ..
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2013, 03:41:35 AM »

alt-PTS are inevitable and desirable.  The distinguishing factor of PTS is that Invictus (and posisbly others) will honor its social contract.  Creating a PTS that does not have a company backing it will not be creating a PTS, it will be creating an altcoin. 

So a "clone" is not a clone, unless you consider your neighbors house to be a clone of yours because it is also a house.

Agreed. Others have to create a company or system around a PTS-type of infrastructure. It's not trivial but not too difficult once someone has done the heavy lifting to show the way. Plus you don't need a real successful company to sell a me-too coin backed only by the concept at a me-too price, ultimately at original PTS' cost.
Yes, but those inevitable failures will just increase the value of the ones that really do hold true to the social contract.  It's a natural process.

Well there will be true ones other than the original. I think there will be no end of "new-and-improved PTS" if the original PTS is successful and rare.

 

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