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Online Shentist

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We need more delegates for marketing
« on: December 28, 2014, 08:22:55 PM »

So anyone is waiting that "someone" will volunteer to do the job for free.

I don't agree with this assumtion.

All the critic i had with Brian was always not to be open and coordinate the many volunteers here in the forum. We have planty of them.

BUT

we have to coordinate and honor their efforts and to pay them. And if it is a small amount it is ok - here is more the gesture important then the money.

Do you guys really believe without marketing or now preparing for the "big" push, we will get anyway? I don't think Brian left much to us, so we have to do all the stuff new and we have no time to get lazy now and wait for something.

On Nullstreet it was suggested that we can run a delegate for marketing and provide funds to people who will need them.

Just my 5 bitUSD.

So actions?

1. We get some discussion what the community is thinking how many delegates for marketing we need "now"?
2. I am willing to fund 1 delegate 100% but don't want to run it.
3. I can only fund it if we get a kind of consensus and Bytemaster will in advance agree to vote for him

So time to discuss!

Offline gamey

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Re: We need more delegates for marketing
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2014, 08:28:54 PM »
I started a similar thread about a month ago.  Suggesting funds be put in a multisig address of 3 people.

Matt608 was the only one who responded positively AFAIK.  Toast suggested I start out with a lower paid delegate.  (Which thinking about it some more, with price feeds etc I can understand that suggestion but meh it complicates the whole issue)  Anyway, seeing the lack of community support and realizing I was just setting myself up to be committed to another half-baked project I deleted the thread. I have enough half-baked projects - thank you!

It does seem to me that marketing could use a general funds account to be used by any project.  I would suggest that the multi-sig holders be in charge of deciding where the money would go.  2/3 would protect everyone involved.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2014, 09:06:54 PM by gamey »
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Re: We need more delegates for marketing
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2014, 08:38:33 PM »

I started a similar thread about a month ago.  Suggesting funds be put in a multisig address of 3 people.

Matt608 was the only one who responded positively AFAIK.  Toast suggested I start out with a lower paid delegate.  (Which thinking about it some more, with price feeds etc I can understand that suggestion but meh it complicates the whole issue)  Anyway, seeing the lack of community support and realizing I was just setting myself up to be committed to another half-baked project I deleted the thread. I have another half-baked projects - thank you!

It does seem to me that marketing could use a general funds account to be used by any project.  I would suggest that the multi-sig holders be in charge of deciding where the money would go.  2/3 would protect everyone involved.

We spend >100k in the past for marketing and now we have 1 deleagte for 2k a month? We are not talking about taking money for your own (at least not all) but to have funds under someones controll who will allocate them. We have many programmers, but not 1 person who is doing fulltime "business development". Coordinate all the people who are willing to help and allocate funds to them.

Matt608 is willing to do something for 3 month. So it would cost 6k. What a big deal. We did much worth in the past and now is the time to throw little money around to get the wheels moving. I would like to hear from Bytemaster about how this will be handled or who is doing it. Always we are talking about developers (great) but no company is going to be successful without the other guys around. We need now a infrastracture for them as well. 1-3 people would be great!

Offline gamey

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Re: We need more delegates for marketing
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2014, 09:08:51 PM »

I started a similar thread about a month ago.  Suggesting funds be put in a multisig address of 3 people.

Matt608 was the only one who responded positively AFAIK.  Toast suggested I start out with a lower paid delegate.  (Which thinking about it some more, with price feeds etc I can understand that suggestion but meh it complicates the whole issue)  Anyway, seeing the lack of community support and realizing I was just setting myself up to be committed to another half-baked project I deleted the thread. I have another half-baked projects - thank you!

It does seem to me that marketing could use a general funds account to be used by any project.  I would suggest that the multi-sig holders be in charge of deciding where the money would go.  2/3 would protect everyone involved.

We spend >100k in the past for marketing and now we have 1 deleagte for 2k a month? We are not talking about taking money for your own (at least not all) but to have funds under someones controll who will allocate them. We have many programmers, but not 1 person who is doing fulltime "business development". Coordinate all the people who are willing to help and allocate funds to them.

Matt608 is willing to do something for 3 month. So it would cost 6k. What a big deal. We did much worth in the past and now is the time to throw little money around to get the wheels moving. I would like to hear from Bytemaster about how this will be handled or who is doing it. Always we are talking about developers (great) but no company is going to be successful without the other guys around. We need now a infrastracture for them as well. 1-3 people would be great!

You are singing to the choir buddy. 

The worst thing that can happen is we took all this negative PR for cause an inflating DAC that is barely utilized.
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Re: We need more delegates for marketing
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2014, 09:35:24 PM »
At current usd price levels, 1 marketer would need about 5 100% delegates to do anything meaningful right out of the gate.

At $2k per month, what, you buy one ad on reddit that would last less than a day if based on views. It's a joke to think any marketing would get done by a delegate at these price levels or even double. This is why I withdrew my intentions as a marketing delegate awhile back. It's just not realistic. And for the community to expect anything in the meantime is absurd.  I would suggest I3 should be kicking out some BTS for marketing supplements since AGS has been used up, but at current levels that reserve would get exhausted rather fast.

I think it's time we all except that BTS is going to have to reach the masses the old fashioned way: word of mouth. I don't think it is unreasonable to think we will likely take the same path and time as Bitcoin took to get to where it is now. Just hope no one rides our technological coat tails and surpasses us with AGS style crowd funds that go purely into marketing the same product with a different name.

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Re: We need more delegates for marketing
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2014, 09:38:59 PM »

I started a similar thread about a month ago.  Suggesting funds be put in a multisig address of 3 people.

Matt608 was the only one who responded positively AFAIK.  Toast suggested I start out with a lower paid delegate.  (Which thinking about it some more, with price feeds etc I can understand that suggestion but meh it complicates the whole issue)  Anyway, seeing the lack of community support and realizing I was just setting myself up to be committed to another half-baked project I deleted the thread. I have another half-baked projects - thank you!

It does seem to me that marketing could use a general funds account to be used by any project.  I would suggest that the multi-sig holders be in charge of deciding where the money would go.  2/3 would protect everyone involved.

We spend >100k in the past for marketing and now we have 1 deleagte for 2k a month? We are not talking about taking money for your own (at least not all) but to have funds under someones controll who will allocate them. We have many programmers, but not 1 person who is doing fulltime "business development". Coordinate all the people who are willing to help and allocate funds to them.

Matt608 is willing to do something for 3 month. So it would cost 6k. What a big deal. We did much worth in the past and now is the time to throw little money around to get the wheels moving. I would like to hear from Bytemaster about how this will be handled or who is doing it. Always we are talking about developers (great) but no company is going to be successful without the other guys around. We need now a infrastracture for them as well. 1-3 people would be great!

You are singing to the choir buddy. 

The worst thing that can happen is we took all this negative PR for cause an inflating DAC that is barely utilized.

We should not call it inflation, because it is not.
We are creating BTS to pay for the employees we need. It is much better then always increase the issued shares because we need more funds. Bytemaster realized it in time so we need to fix our thinking as well. The community get a "loan" from himself to pay the employees. The employees need to create value for us, otherwise the "loan" will not get repaid in increasing marketcap.

This should not a reason why we are not hiring marketing or business developers.

Online Shentist

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Re: We need more delegates for marketing
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2014, 09:42:44 PM »
At current usd price levels, 1 marketer would need about 5 100% delegates to do anything meaningful right out of the gate.

At $2k per month, what, you buy one ad on reddit that would last less than a day if based on views. It's a joke to think any marketing would get done by a delegate at these price levels or even double. This is why I withdrew my intentions as a marketing delegate awhile back. It's just not realistic. And for the community to expect anything in the meantime is absurd.  I would suggest I3 should be kicking out some BTS for marketing supplements since AGS has been used up, but at current levels that reserve would get exhausted rather fast.

I think it's time we all except that BTS is going to have to reach the masses the old fashioned way: word of mouth. I don't think it is unreasonable to think we will likely take the same path and time as Bitcoin took to get to where it is now. Just hope no one rides our technological coat tails and surpasses us with AGS style crowd funds that go purely into marketing the same product with a different name.

we are talking about 2 different things. I think it is to early to pay for advertisment, in fact i am against paying advertisment. It will give not enough back. What we need are persons who will get Bytemaster interviews, will get us links on webpages etc. this is done for "free" but you have to pay this guy. In the past i expected Brian doing this kind of job, but i was wrong.

So now we need someone who will do this and coordinate the community efforts.

Offline gamey

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Re: We need more delegates for marketing
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2014, 09:52:53 PM »

I started a similar thread about a month ago.  Suggesting funds be put in a multisig address of 3 people.

Matt608 was the only one who responded positively AFAIK.  Toast suggested I start out with a lower paid delegate.  (Which thinking about it some more, with price feeds etc I can understand that suggestion but meh it complicates the whole issue)  Anyway, seeing the lack of community support and realizing I was just setting myself up to be committed to another half-baked project I deleted the thread. I have another half-baked projects - thank you!

It does seem to me that marketing could use a general funds account to be used by any project.  I would suggest that the multi-sig holders be in charge of deciding where the money would go.  2/3 would protect everyone involved.

We spend >100k in the past for marketing and now we have 1 deleagte for 2k a month? We are not talking about taking money for your own (at least not all) but to have funds under someones controll who will allocate them. We have many programmers, but not 1 person who is doing fulltime "business development". Coordinate all the people who are willing to help and allocate funds to them.

Matt608 is willing to do something for 3 month. So it would cost 6k. What a big deal. We did much worth in the past and now is the time to throw little money around to get the wheels moving. I would like to hear from Bytemaster about how this will be handled or who is doing it. Always we are talking about developers (great) but no company is going to be successful without the other guys around. We need now a infrastracture for them as well. 1-3 people would be great!

You are singing to the choir buddy. 

The worst thing that can happen is we took all this negative PR for cause an inflating DAC that is barely utilized.

We should not call it inflation, because it is not.
We are creating BTS to pay for the employees we need. It is much better then always increase the issued shares because we need more funds. Bytemaster realized it in time so we need to fix our thinking as well. The community get a "loan" from himself to pay the employees. The employees need to create value for us, otherwise the "loan" will not get repaid in increasing marketcap.

This should not a reason why we are not hiring marketing or business developers.

Thank you for the lecture, but I don't think it matters what we call it in threads like this.  Ok.. no inflation.. dilution.. whatever

I didn't say it was a reason, I was just pointing out that it would be a shame if that is the case.  Although it will at least pay the core developers something for their continued support which is absolutely critical.

This is partially why things like this never go anywhere, people get sidetracked on bullshit.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2014, 09:54:38 PM by gamey »
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Offline matt608

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Re: We need more delegates for marketing
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2014, 09:53:18 PM »
Yes, the need for marketing delegates is getting higher and higher.  At this rate we will have 1.0 protocol launch and almost no marketing budget.  People seem to forget that only 50% of my pay is pledged to go to the Argentina campaign, perhaps the name I chose for my delegate was a mistake as it suggests 100%.  The other 50% can be used for the many western marketing projects, videos, bitcointalk sig space, tipping hard working community members, targeted bitasset giveaways, sponsored blog posts, conference travel expenses for volunteers, etc, the list of options is long.

Voters, you've got to use the people who are available and ready to go.  You've got to give people a chance.  Do you choose to vote for almost no marketing?  Or do you want to give your stake a chance to be worth something?

If you think I am

1.  Loyal to serving BitShares
2.  Not an idiot

You should vote for me.

I can tell you, not only am I loyal, I am obsessed and easily capable of the task. 

I have an Argentina team ready and already in action, fran2k and elmato being the main team members.

I have listed the kind of projects I will fund.

So go ahead and make use of DPOS.  Empower this community.

Offline Xeldal

Re: We need more delegates for marketing
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2014, 09:56:38 PM »
At current usd price levels, 1 marketer would need about 5 100% delegates to do anything meaningful right out of the gate.

At $2k per month, what, you buy one ad on reddit that would last less than a day if based on views. It's a joke to think any marketing would get done by a delegate at these price levels or even double. This is why I withdrew my intentions as a marketing delegate awhile back. It's just not realistic. And for the community to expect anything in the meantime is absurd.  I would suggest I3 should be kicking out some BTS for marketing supplements since AGS has been used up, but at current levels that reserve would get exhausted rather fast.

I think it's time we all except that BTS is going to have to reach the masses the old fashioned way: word of mouth. I don't think it is unreasonable to think we will likely take the same path and time as Bitcoin took to get to where it is now. Just hope no one rides our technological coat tails and surpasses us with AGS style crowd funds that go purely into marketing the same product with a different name.

I would have no problem with 5 100%'s going to a highly professional/skill/trusted/established/verifiable marketing team, but I agree with you that at this point most of what will get done is via word of mouth, small motivated groups willing to work for peanuts either because they love it or are already heavily invested and have much to gain by doing the work. 

Myself, I'm looking into putting together one of these small teams and intent to fund it entirely myself until I've got something to show for it.  We are still early in getting big capital eyes interest in taking one of these 101 seats.  The way I see it, for anyone with even the slightest wherewithal to do it, its a huge opportunity to jump in there and establish yourself.  If bitshares moves where we all hope it will, the effort and money you expend now will pay off massively in the future.  ... or maybe it won't, but that's the risk we're taking for what could be a great reward.  Even if its not a delegate position, this space is full of opportunity, but it doesn't suit everyone's risk apatite.

Offline gamey

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Re: We need more delegates for marketing
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2014, 09:58:21 PM »
Yes, the need for marketing delegates is getting higher and higher.  At this rate we will have 1.0 protocol launch and almost no marketing budget.  People seem to forget that only 50% of my pay is pledged to go to the Argentina campaign, perhaps the name I chose for my delegate was a mistake as it suggests 100%.  The other 50% can be used for the many western marketing projects, videos, bitcointalk sig space, tipping hard working community members, targeted bitasset giveaways, sponsored blog posts, conference travel expenses for volunteers, etc, the list of options is long.

Voters, you've got to use the people who are available and ready to go.  You've got to give people a chance.  Do you choose to vote for almost no marketing?  Or do you want to give your stake a chance to be worth something?

If you think I am

1.  Loyal to serving BitShares
2.  Not an idiot

You should vote for me.

I can tell you, not only am I loyal, I am obsessed and easily capable of the task. 

I have an Argentina team ready and already in action, fran2k and elmato being the main team members.

I have listed the kind of projects I will fund.

So go ahead and make use of DPOS.  Empower this community.

+5% 

I also agree about someone helping bytemaster get the word out there is more effective than ads on crypto sites. 

Although Argentina and other  global hotspots having a currency crisis might have value in ads.

It would also be nice to hear what Agent86 is doing so we can avoid blatant overlap.
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Online Shentist

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Re: We need more delegates for marketing
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2014, 10:02:12 PM »

I started a similar thread about a month ago.  Suggesting funds be put in a multisig address of 3 people.

Matt608 was the only one who responded positively AFAIK.  Toast suggested I start out with a lower paid delegate.  (Which thinking about it some more, with price feeds etc I can understand that suggestion but meh it complicates the whole issue)  Anyway, seeing the lack of community support and realizing I was just setting myself up to be committed to another half-baked project I deleted the thread. I have another half-baked projects - thank you!

It does seem to me that marketing could use a general funds account to be used by any project.  I would suggest that the multi-sig holders be in charge of deciding where the money would go.  2/3 would protect everyone involved.

We spend >100k in the past for marketing and now we have 1 deleagte for 2k a month? We are not talking about taking money for your own (at least not all) but to have funds under someones controll who will allocate them. We have many programmers, but not 1 person who is doing fulltime "business development". Coordinate all the people who are willing to help and allocate funds to them.

Matt608 is willing to do something for 3 month. So it would cost 6k. What a big deal. We did much worth in the past and now is the time to throw little money around to get the wheels moving. I would like to hear from Bytemaster about how this will be handled or who is doing it. Always we are talking about developers (great) but no company is going to be successful without the other guys around. We need now a infrastracture for them as well. 1-3 people would be great!

You are singing to the choir buddy. 

The worst thing that can happen is we took all this negative PR for cause an inflating DAC that is barely utilized.

We should not call it inflation, because it is not.
We are creating BTS to pay for the employees we need. It is much better then always increase the issued shares because we need more funds. Bytemaster realized it in time so we need to fix our thinking as well. The community get a "loan" from himself to pay the employees. The employees need to create value for us, otherwise the "loan" will not get repaid in increasing marketcap.

This should not a reason why we are not hiring marketing or business developers.

Thank you for the lecture, but I don't think it matters what we call it in threads like this.  Ok.. no inflation.. dilution.. whatever

I didn't say it was a reason, I was just pointing out that it would be a shame if that is the case.  Although it will at least pay the core developers something for their continued support which is absolutely critical.

This is partially why things like this never go anywhere, people get sidetracked on bullshit.

Gamey i didn't wanted to lecture you! I just wanted to say, that at least the community should use different words.

Inflation is - you get nothing back!
Hiring people with increasing the sharebase is ? I don't know the right word, but maybe we should think about it!

We could see as example the BTS as an Startup and we have 101 Fundingrounds for our investors. Our investors are not contributing money, but time. Time they should spend to create value for us.

We are hiring and paying with new created funds.

We are doing constant fundingrounds daily. I think we have to invent a new word for this kind of blockchain/shares.

We are paying our employees with company shares :D

Online Shentist

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Re: We need more delegates for marketing
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2014, 10:05:40 PM »
Yes, the need for marketing delegates is getting higher and higher.  At this rate we will have 1.0 protocol launch and almost no marketing budget.  People seem to forget that only 50% of my pay is pledged to go to the Argentina campaign, perhaps the name I chose for my delegate was a mistake as it suggests 100%.  The other 50% can be used for the many western marketing projects, videos, bitcointalk sig space, tipping hard working community members, targeted bitasset giveaways, sponsored blog posts, conference travel expenses for volunteers, etc, the list of options is long.

Voters, you've got to use the people who are available and ready to go.  You've got to give people a chance.  Do you choose to vote for almost no marketing?  Or do you want to give your stake a chance to be worth something?

If you think I am

1.  Loyal to serving BitShares
2.  Not an idiot

You should vote for me.

I can tell you, not only am I loyal, I am obsessed and easily capable of the task. 

I have an Argentina team ready and already in action, fran2k and elmato being the main team members.

I have listed the kind of projects I will fund.

So go ahead and make use of DPOS.  Empower this community.

matt, you can include on the left side of the post your delegate, maybe this will help to get more attention. In fact anyone who is supporting you can do it. I did it with monsterer!

Offline matt608

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Re: We need more delegates for marketing
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2014, 10:17:01 PM »


matt, you can include on the left side of the post your delegate, maybe this will help to get more attention. In fact anyone who is supporting you can do it. I did it with monsterer!

Done, thanks for the tip.

Offline gamey

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Re: We need more delegates for marketing
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2014, 10:19:20 PM »
Gamey i didn't wanted to lecture you! I just wanted to say, that at least the community should use different words.

Inflation is - you get nothing back!
Hiring people with increasing the sharebase is ? I don't know the right word, but maybe we should think about it!

We could see as example the BTS as an Startup and we have 101 Fundingrounds for our investors. Our investors are not contributing money, but time. Time they should spend to create value for us.

We are hiring and paying with new created funds.

We are doing constant fundingrounds daily. I think we have to invent a new word for this kind of blockchain/shares.

We are paying our employees with company shares :D

I'm just super cranky lately.  Honestly I am not sure why.  I'm not the most patient of people and it has been showing lately.

While I agree with you and like this thread.. I'd rather stick with how to get the most out of our delegate pay so I become irritated/frustrated too quickly... sigh

I'll try to stop using inflation because although the word doesn't register with me as a bad thing, it will with others and my usage does  promote using it elsewhere.  In fact I'm sure I use it elsewhere also, so I'll take your suggestion.
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