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sumantso

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Unhappy Chinese?
« on: December 29, 2014, 08:54:00 AM »

Today I ventured into the Chinese section, emboldened by the nifty translate feature on top of the threads. The first thread I clicked and I see that they seem to be unhappy.

Can the translate members explain to them the problem is solved and that BM has said he will take care of it?

Offline btswildpig

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Re: Unhappy Chinese?
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2014, 09:21:43 AM »
Today I ventured into the Chinese section, emboldened by the nifty translate feature on top of the threads. The first thread I clicked and I see that they seem to be unhappy.

Can the translate members explain to them the problem is solved and that BM has said he will take care of it?

Many of those unhappy people understand English quite well . The main point of the thread is that "there are always explanation to justify the actions , and those actions cost the BM-believer the most . Those who believe in BM the most , they're hurt the most . BTS is losing people , even long term fans , no matter how we want to tell us it's not . "

They're talking about things that has been going on for half a year . Not just a specific single event .

(Another unrelated topic : There was a thread back in August that predicted the way BM has been handling things on the forum would ultimately lead to disaster that hurts a lot of investors . Sadly to see the October mess has proven that thread right . )

The Chinese is not talking about something specific , just something that they've been complaining about for half a year . And they're too frustrated too see BM and Stan hasn't learned anything from all those lessons  . (Maybe they don't know back then ? But even if they did know , would there be changes ? )

One of the people who expressed his feelings in detail is the one who invented the slogon "BTS is good , worth 500 USD properly properly per coin " . The earliest evangelist of Bitshares in China . If people like him are feeling bad , think about the others .  :'(

I've expressed their concerns to Stan days ago . I'll continue to do so when I free up from other things . I hope one month , two months , 6 months from now , we won't be dancing around with the same issue .
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 12:01:42 PM by btswildpig »
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline btswildpig

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Re: Unhappy Chinese?
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2014, 09:27:48 AM »
My comment on this :

It's better address this like  "unhappy serious investors' , because those concerns are all the same for serious investors around the world , just most of the serious investors happened to be Chinese .


PS. I didn't want to drag BM to this conversion seeing how this would delay his development . That's why I didn't even translate the thread and point BM to it the first place .

Another PS. I don't want to be the Children who speaks the truth at all . But I would blame myself if I don't and something bad keeps happening .
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 09:51:42 AM by btswildpig »
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline BTSdac

Re: Unhappy Chinese?
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2014, 11:40:06 AM »
I am Chinese . and communicate with many people in QQ group everyday.  and also manage a small QQ group. recently many people join it and want to know what is BTS.
so far I think BTS is much good, and it is perfect if there is less change .some change is benefit like super DAC merge . but some change is completely unnecessary like DEV snapshot. we also know it is invaluable or a little valuable. but it is too complicated to investor . 11.05 snapshot,12.04 snapshot, PTS snapshot. it would drive away many potential investor . and I hope there never have snapshot in future.
github.com :pureland
BTS2.0 API :ws://139.196.37.179:8091
BTS2.0 API 数据源ws://139.196.37.179:8091

Offline Stan

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Re: Unhappy Chinese?
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2014, 02:00:23 PM »
Today I ventured into the Chinese section, emboldened by the nifty translate feature on top of the threads. The first thread I clicked and I see that they seem to be unhappy.

Can the translate members explain to them the problem is solved and that BM has said he will take care of it?

Many of those unhappy people understand English quite well . The main point of the thread is that "there are always explanation to justify the actions , and those actions cost the BM-believer the most . Those who believe in BM the most , they're hurt the most . BTS is losing people , even long term fans , no matter how we want to tell us it's not . "

They're talking about things that has been going on for half a year . Not just a specific single event .

(Another unrelated topic : There was a thread back in August that predicted the way BM has been handling things on the forum would ultimately lead to disaster that hurts a lot of investors . Sadly to see the October mess has proven that thread right . )

The Chinese is not talking about something specific , just something that they've been complaining about for half a year . And they're too frustrated too see BM and Stan hasn't learned anything from all those lessons  . (Maybe they don't know back then ? But even if they did know , would there be changes ? )

One of the people who expressed his feelings in detail is the one who invented the slogon "BTS is good , worth 500 USD properly properly per coin " . The earliest evangelist of Bitshares in China . If people like him are feeling bad , think about the others .  :'(

I've expressed their concerns to Stan days ago . I'll continue to do so when I free up from other things . I hope one month , two months , 6 months from now , we won't be dancing around with the same issue .

Believe me we are truly listening and would love to make everyone happy.

It seems to come down to the fact that this process isn't working:

1.  Post an idea or a proposal based on some new understanding we have gained.
2.  Listen to discussions.
3.  Refine our approach based on community input.
4.  Post what we have decided to do after thinking about it full time as a team with max available knowledge.

It always seems that we get hung up on a misunderstanding of what that first step means.
And that step is the only way we know to achieve steps 2 and 3.

Yet, if we skipped steps 1, 2, 3 and go straight to 4, then step 4 becomes step 1 and we have a bigger problem.

The answer might be, "Stop having new understanding" or "innovate slower".

But that would simply surrender the opportunity to our competitors and deny our investors the benefits of what we can do faster and better than those competitors.

If someone has a better way to integrate the lessons we are learning as we think and work, please say so.
So far, the only suggestion I've heard is, "Share your proposals with fewer people."

This, of course, simply means that the rest of our supporters will still be caught by surprise.

So we have problems:

1.  We can't stop innovating.
2.  We can't stop sharing our ideas.
3.  We can't stop fielding the best solutions we know.

Does this make us a bad investment that people should give up on?
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline btswildpig

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Re: Unhappy Chinese?
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2014, 02:10:18 PM »
Today I ventured into the Chinese section, emboldened by the nifty translate feature on top of the threads. The first thread I clicked and I see that they seem to be unhappy.

Can the translate members explain to them the problem is solved and that BM has said he will take care of it?

Many of those unhappy people understand English quite well . The main point of the thread is that "there are always explanation to justify the actions , and those actions cost the BM-believer the most . Those who believe in BM the most , they're hurt the most . BTS is losing people , even long term fans , no matter how we want to tell us it's not . "

They're talking about things that has been going on for half a year . Not just a specific single event .

(Another unrelated topic : There was a thread back in August that predicted the way BM has been handling things on the forum would ultimately lead to disaster that hurts a lot of investors . Sadly to see the October mess has proven that thread right . )

The Chinese is not talking about something specific , just something that they've been complaining about for half a year . And they're too frustrated too see BM and Stan hasn't learned anything from all those lessons  . (Maybe they don't know back then ? But even if they did know , would there be changes ? )

One of the people who expressed his feelings in detail is the one who invented the slogon "BTS is good , worth 500 USD properly properly per coin " . The earliest evangelist of Bitshares in China . If people like him are feeling bad , think about the others .  :'(

I've expressed their concerns to Stan days ago . I'll continue to do so when I free up from other things . I hope one month , two months , 6 months from now , we won't be dancing around with the same issue .

Believe me we are truly listening and would love to make everyone happy.

It seems to come down to the fact that this process isn't working:

1.  Post an idea or a proposal based on some new understanding we have gained.
2.  Listen to discussions.
3.  Refine our approach based on community input.
4.  Post what we have decided to do after thinking about it full time as a team with max available knowledge.

It always seems that we get hung up on a misunderstanding of what that first step means.
And that step is the only way we know to achieve steps 2 and 3.

Yet, if we skipped steps 1, 2, 3 and go straight to 4, then step 4 becomes step 1 and we have a bigger problem.

The answer might be, "Stop having new understanding" or "innovate slower".

But that would simply surrender the opportunity to our competitors and deny our investors the benefits of what we can do faster and better than those competitors.

If someone has a better way to integrate the lessons we are learning as we think and work, please say so.
So far, the only suggestion I've heard is, "Share your proposals with fewer people."

This, of course, simply means that the rest of our supporters will still be caught by surprise.

So we have problems:

1.  We can't stop innovating.
2.  We can't stop sharing our ideas.
3.  We can't stop fielding the best solutions we know.

Does this make us a bad investment that people should give up on?

Can you please count those people who replied at those proposals , you'll see that even posting on the forum , you were in fact still discussing with "a few" people ........  Most people won't even know it until it's done . You may even get more people to discuss your proposals in mumble

(If you don't believe me , do a head count on those threads , you'll know what kind of issue I'm talking about . )
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline btswildpig

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Re: Unhappy Chinese?
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2014, 02:32:10 PM »
Stan , if you really mean that you want a better solution to achieve the balance between openness and discretion , I'll work my ass off to think of a better one for you . And I bet it will get you more positive and useful input and less mess and disaster .

That being said , if you guys really want that .

Another point : Please don't ever mix the community with the forum . The core of the community is the people , not the forum . You can reach out to a lot of community members without the forum . We have community on mumble , we have community on Skype , we have community on QQ , we have community on nullstreet , why we're so fixated on the fact that this forum should be the only way to achieve the best ideas and the least damage ?
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 02:40:47 PM by btswildpig »
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline Stan

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Re: Unhappy Chinese?
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2014, 03:05:02 PM »
Stan , if you really mean that you want a better solution to achieve the balance between openness and discretion , I'll work my ass off to think of a better one for you . And I bet it will get you more positive and useful input and less mess and disaster .

That being said , if you guys really want that .

Another point : Please don't ever mix the community with the forum . The core of the community is the people , not the forum . You can reach out to a lot of community members without the forum . We have community on mumble , we have community on Skype , we have community on QQ , we have community on nullstreet , why we're so fixated on the fact that this forum should be the only way to achieve the best ideas and the least damage ?

By all means, if you have better ideas let us know.

Lately, Bytemaster has begun introducing his ideas on his new "Bytemaster's Blog".    If people who have better understanding of global sensitivities than we do, see something there that might need to be handled carefully, then perhaps they can suggest immediate use of one of those other forms of interaction.  Bytemaster is always willing to do a Fuzzy Mumble when people want to talk.  I'm sure he will entertain other constructive solutions.
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline wuyanren

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Re: Unhappy Chinese?
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2014, 03:05:45 PM »
i love you,stan

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Re: Unhappy Chinese?
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2014, 09:31:51 PM »
So we have problems:

1.  We can't stop innovating.
2.  We can't stop sharing our ideas.
3.  We can't stop fielding the best solutions we know.

Does this make us a bad investment that people should give up on?
First world problems  :-\

 :P

People need to either UNDERSTAND what BitShares stands for .. or have more patience if they can't understand </imho>
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Offline btswildpig

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Re: Unhappy Chinese?
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2014, 04:13:12 AM »
So we have problems:

1.  We can't stop innovating.
2.  We can't stop sharing our ideas.
3.  We can't stop fielding the best solutions we know.

Does this make us a bad investment that people should give up on?
First world problems  :-\

 :P

People need to either UNDERSTAND what BitShares stands for .. or have more patience if they can't understand </imho>

We're all smart people here , understanding should never be a one way channel . Bitshares need to be more patient with its investors and supporters as well .

Stan and I reached a deeper understanding about the cause of Bitshares , the role of the investors and the mission to care for both front .
As to the Chinese , their concerns will be addressed later .

Hope we'll see more positive outcome after this and to da moon .
« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 04:16:06 AM by btswildpig »
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline Riverhead

Re: Unhappy Chinese?
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2014, 05:35:30 AM »
Is QQ only for Chinese speakers? Would an English only speaker find any value in joining a QQ BTS community?

Offline btswildpig

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Re: Unhappy Chinese?
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2014, 05:54:22 AM »
Is QQ only for Chinese speakers? Would an English only speaker find any value in joining a QQ BTS community?

Fuzzy is in one of the QQ . However most discussions are held in Chinese so he usually use the QQ group to issue notice for meetings .
I can talk to you at Skype if you like .
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline wuyanren

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Re: Unhappy Chinese?
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2014, 06:03:48 AM »
So far things have been, also have no what can be discussed

 

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