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Offline btswildpig

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Long Post : Looking at things from another perspective
« on: January 14, 2015, 04:25:49 PM »

For those who don't know me yet , I'm the unnamed Wordmaster in this community .

I often debate with dozens of people at once and I still beat them in speed , no matter if they speak Chinese or English , until I finally lost the interest to debate anymore .

I can do that because I can think of so many counter arguments from various aspects once I made a remark and predict what arguments the counter party will be going with. And the rest is just my typing speed and my knowledge in multiple fields .

With that said , yes , eventually , I'm arguing with myself constantly . And quite oddly , I can win in both side of the argument , if I have picked a direction first .

So , that brings out another line of questions :
Is there a "right" opinion ? Is everything just a matter of perspective ? So what's the point of proving something if there are no "right" answers to begin with ?

Somebody might say it's easy to answer :
At the end of the day , those who can produce the most convincing argument wins .

OK , now we're getting somewhere .  ( look , this is the living proof that I can argue with myself on behalf of somebody else ) .

Wait a minute , who will be there to judge which one is more convincing than the other ?

In most scenario , those who applause for you would be the same ones who has the exact idea in mind. Those who disagrees with you , their opinion can only be changed if they believe the same thing as you in their subconscious . 

OK , dude , I must be crazy . If that's the case , what's the point of convincing somebody ?

Here comes the best part :
You only need to convince those people who can offer you the most once they believe in you .

For a insurance agent , he/she should convince their potential clients to buy insurance policies , because that would bring profit for him/her .
For a politician , he/she should convince the people to vote for he/she , because that would make his/her career .

So , what happens to those arguments which won't give you any benefits even if you win them ?

That's a weird question , because like I said before :
everything is about perspective , you can't actually win an argument against everybody . Because they would tell you this sentence repeatly "everything is about perspective"  . 


It's always easier to answer a question instead of act on it .
It's in our nature to grab an existing answer to a question because that answer is always the ground for our previous decision . Without that answer , our decision would be wrong from the start .

So , what happens to communication if everything is about perspective  ?
Perspective can't solve any issue for you , just easier to understand them .
If you can look at things at another perspective in every conflict , then you'll be a very patient and understanding guy .
But does that solve the original conflict and problem ? Well , that's the thing , it doesn't .
Communication should be about improving things , not just about answering and understanding things .

Looking things at another perspective will make you ignore the problem , not solving it .

When people looked at the mining cost at another perspective , they become hard core Bitcoin fans , while the mining are still sucking the blood out of them .

When we looked at lack of marketing at another perspective , we become content with marketcap since "no marketing and still get there , think of what will happen if we have great marketing" , and we lose a great window before the bear market .

When we look at lack of prioritizing at another perspective , we'll think it's ok to drop something for a bit , while it wasn't .

The end

So , you're saying , words and speeches and answers are some sort of game that doesn't change anything ?

It all depends on how you want to proceed .
If you just want to win an argument , then forget it , because you can always win by looking at another perspective .
If you want to get some opinions and review the effort you're doing , try to argue with yourself first with the opinion from those who oppose you .

disclaimer: I had too much coffee tonight .
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline Musewhale

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Re: Long Post : Looking at things from another perspective
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2015, 04:42:35 PM »
You will always be a winner  :P :P :P
MUSE witness:mygoodfriend     vote for me

Offline davidpbrown

Re: Long Post : Looking at things from another perspective
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2015, 04:55:53 PM »
I often debate with dozens of people at once and I still beat them in speed , no matter if they speak Chinese or English , until I finally lost the interest to debate anymore .

I think you just lost against yourself! :P

Here comes the best part :
You only need to convince those people who can offer you the most once they believe in you .

That's the weakest part.. it's fallacy.

"everything is about perspective"

Is wrong too.

So , what happens to communication if everything is about perspective  ? 

You haven't proven that is the case.. just stated it.

If you just want to win an argument , then forget it , because you can always win by looking at another perspective .

Again not true.

disclaimer: I had too much coffee tonight .

Yeah that must be it!
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Offline btswildpig

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Re: Long Post : Looking at things from another perspective
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2015, 04:58:55 PM »
I often debate with dozens of people at once and I still beat them in speed , no matter if they speak Chinese or English , until I finally lost the interest to debate anymore .

I think you just lost against yourself! :P

Here comes the best part :
You only need to convince those people who can offer you the most once they believe in you .

That's the weakest part.. it's fallacy.

"everything is about perspective"

Is wrong too.

So , what happens to communication if everything is about perspective  ? 

You haven't proven that is the case.. just stated it.

If you just want to win an argument , then forget it , because you can always win by looking at another perspective .

Again not true.

disclaimer: I had too much coffee tonight .

Yeah that must be it!

disclaimer again :
I wasn't the one who invented "perspective" , I merely state that what will happen if we take this "perspective' thing seriously in every potential problem to be an excuse to avoid problems .
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline davidpbrown

Re: Long Post : Looking at things from another perspective
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2015, 05:02:52 PM »
Welcome to Philosophy 101

So, we begin with a simple idea that there is no good. That nothing is better than anything else.
Can anyone suggest why this is wrong?
[Exercise for the reader]

Ok, so if something is better than another, then some perspective that evidences that, will exist.

An opinion that is correct will resonate with that reality; and the perspective that is most true, will be the better one overall. Whether it is the most persuasive, is a matter of how that perspective is communicated and the willingness of others to question their own understanding.. but the perspective that is on target for what is better, wins.. in theory. In practice, time is a factor in the survival of a problem. Problems do change their character over time; so, what is the better solution at one moment might evolve to be something else - a dynamic response then is important in all endeavours.
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Offline speedy

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Re: Long Post : Looking at things from another perspective
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2015, 05:03:44 PM »
Debating for its own sake is pointless. Action is what counts.

Offline davidpbrown

Re: Long Post : Looking at things from another perspective
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2015, 05:05:07 PM »
Debating for its own sake is pointless. Action is what counts.

Fools jump in..

Debating is an education. Thinking issues through before acting, is best.
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Offline davidpbrown

Re: Long Post : Looking at things from another perspective
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2015, 05:11:42 PM »
Philosophy 102

Looking at any issue from multiple perspectives, is very useful. That is not a matter of disagreeing with yourself and taking other person's perspective but considering the different dimensions of a problems. So, considering whether some action is robust, requires considering multiple aspects of its nature.

When we consider BitShares, we can look at it from different perspectives, emulating the interests of different audiences or considering the strengths and weaknesses of the markets; of the devs; of marketing; of our technical legal capability, etc. Each of those perspectives can be distinct from each other and none of them are wrong and yet all of them can be right. So, two perspectives can be correct, different and non-interfering.
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Offline btswildpig

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Re: Long Post : Looking at things from another perspective
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2015, 05:15:50 PM »
Philosophy 102

Looking at any issue from multiple perspectives, is very useful. That is not a matter of disagreeing with yourself and taking other person's perspective but considering the different dimensions of a problems. So, considering whether some action is robust, requires considering multiple aspects of its nature.

When we consider BitShares, we can look at it from different perspectives, emulating the interests of different audiences or considering the strengths and weaknesses of the markets; of the devs; of marketing; of our technical legal capability, etc. Each of those perspectives can be distinct from each other and none of them are wrong and yet all of them can be right. So, two perspectives can be correct, different and non-interfering.

We need many perspectives for things before they even created , so we can build them better .

We only need few perspectives for solving problems for the very reason that perspectives may easily become an excuse .
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline Thom

Re: Long Post : Looking at things from another perspective
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2015, 05:21:55 PM »
Debating for its own sake is pointless. Action is what counts.

^ This.

I differ in my perspective from BM in that I believe in OR not SR. Principles matter, objective truth exists.

If you consider that actions follow from beliefs as speedy infers it would seem BM must also believe (at least subconsciously) in OR too because he behaves that way. If SR is true from the hypothetical perspective of a super consciousness, it doesn't matter b/c at the individual conscious level we each have a unique, individual role and awareness of a personal identity. You can't deny your personal identity and then proceed to use it to make the denial, that's a self detonating argument.
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech2 Witness Reports: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23902.0.html

Offline davidpbrown

Re: Long Post : Looking at things from another perspective
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2015, 05:32:56 PM »
We need many perspectives for things before they even created , so we can build them better .

We only need few perspectives for solving problems for the very reason that perspectives may easily become an excuse .

Well, yes.. perspectives provide feedback, both positive and negative; nothing is as powerful as feedback for making progress - the original target is usually not the best one in time.
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