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Offline toast

Guys can we stop shitting on nubits
« on: January 16, 2015, 10:44:41 PM »

It makes you look desperate and threatened.

Dan's blog posts were intended to communicate structural problems he saw in nubits. Everyone else took it as a green light to start more or less slandering their project.

It is clear they don't have malicious intent. You might disagree about whether their stuff can work or not, heck you might even feel a moral obligation to protect investors, but the right answer is to calmly point out structural problems.

Here is a positive example:  http://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/2smt81/proof_that_nubits_fractional_reserve_get_out_now/cnr0gke

Here is a negative example:  http://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/2smt81/proof_that_nubits_fractional_reserve_get_out_now/cnr1z0g
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Offline hpenvy2

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Re: Guys can we stop shitting on nubits
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2015, 10:47:04 PM »
 +5%

I have nothing to add, that says it all.

Offline Rune

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Re: Guys can we stop shitting on nubits
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2015, 11:35:27 PM »
I honestly can't take them seriously when it didn't even occur to them that they have to hedge their bitcoin exposure until after they lost 100's of thousands of dollars during the crash.

It's downright criminal when you combine it with deceptive marketing like this that doesn't even mention that risks exist and tries to paint the peg as something eternal and unbreakable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_imtRPCKCg

I'm tired of bitshares getting overshadowed by shitty altcoins with flashy, pump n dumpy marketing. I look forward to watching them crash and burn, hopefully as soon as possible.

Edit: I deleted the post toast linked to because I have to admit it was pretty fucking dumb and bad PR. To paraphrase what I said "we'll copy your nubots, and we will hedge because we're not retarded, and we will use a sound asset that is cryptographically backed by highly liquid collateral"
« Last Edit: January 16, 2015, 11:48:22 PM by Rune »

Offline fuzzy

Re: Guys can we stop shitting on nubits
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2015, 11:50:49 PM »
I honestly can't take them seriously when it didn't even occur to them that they have to hedge their bitcoin exposure until after they lost 100's of thousands of dollars during the crash.

It's downright criminal when you combine it with deceptive marketing like this that doesn't even mention that risks exist and tries to paint the peg as something eternal and unbreakable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_imtRPCKCg

I'm tired of bitshares getting overshadowed by shitty altcoins with flashy, pump n dumpy marketing. I look forward to watching them crash and burn, hopefully as soon as possible.

I for one think there is nothing wrong with calling out a system that would hurt people if it weren't called out.  If you look on twitter and in other places you will see nubits and all other competitors doing the same thing with us so this isn't a one-sided thing--its the nature of the game.  Besides, this controversy is doing a great deal for our name recognition.   

Someone posted to me something about how Pepsi never comes out attacking Coca Cola, but simply tries to make a better cola.  In defense of this "go along to get along" mentality, it definitely proves valuable for both, but then again when competitors are unwilling to point out the flaws in one another's structure they do no favors to the little guy.  It is a function of the competition, both the pretty and the ugly sides of it, that tends to form a protective layer for customers. 

In my opinion if we are too afraid to call out a dangerous scheme when we see one, we are no better than the current system where MSNBC tries to tell people to buy into a stock market at all time highs.  This may not be open collusion but the effect is the same...so I am for Rune's confrontation. 

Now if he was spreading pure FUD that has no basis in fact...it would be a completely different story.  However, that is not what he is doing.  Just my two cents...and let us hope that rather than flame us for calling them out, they choose to evolve their system to one that benefits its holders and all ecosystems to which it is tied as opposed to the house of cards they are currently building.
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Offline Ander

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Re: Guys can we stop shitting on nubits
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2015, 11:51:24 PM »
I agree, and I think that when we started attacking Nubits was a significant cause of the downtrend back in septembet.  It made us look very unprofessional and incompetent.  It still does, every time it happens.

Even if Nubits fails epically, people still will not reward us for saying Nubits will collapse. Thats not how things work.  No one likes the person who hated on something, even if they are proven right.
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Offline fuzzy

Re: Guys can we stop shitting on nubits
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2015, 11:56:38 PM »
I agree, and I think that when we started attacking Nubits was a significant cause of the downtrend back in septembet.  It made us look very unprofessional and incompetent.  It still does, every time it happens.

Even if Nubits fails epically, people still will not reward us for saying Nubits will collapse. Thats not how things work.  No one likes the person who hated on something, even if they are proven right.

What about those who were Goxxed?  Or the people who were predicting the 2008 collapse?  Were they doing a disservice to their name and those who listened? 

When we risk always being PR friendly, we take a step in the direction of complicity.  Now don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with having a PR guy who comes out and tries to put out the fires, but there is also nothing wrong with organic, rational and respectful debate.  It certainly is a balancing act, and I understand both your side and toasts...but I do not think we should be so intent on not shaking things up that we say nothing about projects with unsound fundamentals....
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Offline santaclause102

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Re: Guys can we stop shitting on nubits
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2015, 12:02:16 AM »
I honestly can't take them seriously when it didn't even occur to them that they have to hedge their bitcoin exposure until after they lost 100's of thousands of dollars during the crash.

It's downright criminal when you combine it with deceptive marketing like this that doesn't even mention that risks exist and tries to paint the peg as something eternal and unbreakable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_imtRPCKCg

I'm tired of bitshares getting overshadowed by shitty altcoins with flashy, pump n dumpy marketing. I look forward to watching them crash and burn, hopefully as soon as possible.

Edit: I deleted the post toast linked to because I have to admit it was pretty fucking dumb and bad PR. To paraphrase what I said "we'll copy your nubots, and we will hedge because we're not retarded, and we will use a sound asset that is cryptographically backed by highly liquid collateral"
I see your good intention and I also wonder about how irrational a market can be at times.

The question is how will nubits fanboys perceive it and how outsiders will perceive it. I bet that both of these groups are better convinced by behavior that can be expected from people that focus on content rather than personal accusation or threatening others (to convince them).
The two examples toast posted above are a great demonstration of this. 

Remember that people who do not know enough about the content (pegged assets) will judge the winner of the conversation by how discussants treat other people (and other implicit behavioral traits that reflect on the intellect and social health of someone).

The challenge is to combine provocation with adequate behavior that reflects well on us.

Quote
What about those who were Goxxed? Or the people who were predicting the 2008 collapse?  Were they doing a disservice to their name and those who listened? 

When we risk always being PR friendly, we take a step in the direction of complicity.  Now don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with having a PR guy who comes out and tries to put out the fires, but there is also nothing wrong with organic, rational and respectful debate.  It certainly is a balancing act, and I understand both your side and toasts...but I do not think we should be so intent on not shaking things up that we say nothing about projects with unsound fundamentals....
Why is being friendly and being controversial / calling things what they are a contradiction?

This http://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/2smt81/proof_that_nubits_fractional_reserve_get_out_now/cnr1z0g doesnt sound like a "organic, rational and respectful debate"

Shake things up but stay "superior" / on top by not getting emotional and by not attacking others personally. If someone has to attack personally or gets emotional it's a sign (especially for the calm outsider that is not involved in such a disucssion) that that person ran out of arguments.

https://discuss.nubits.com/t/apologies-from-a-bitshares-guy/1146  well written   +5%
« Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 12:29:26 AM by delulo »

Offline biophil

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Re: Guys can we stop shitting on nubits
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2015, 12:05:23 AM »
To get a 1st-hand perspective of what our recent NuBits-bashing is like, go over to the Nxt forum and try to start a discussion on BitShares. The mindless tribalistic hatred you will experience is something we should be very careful not to dish out to our competitors.

Well-thought-out criticism is great, but whatever we do, we should never act like the Nxt folks.

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Offline Damelon

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Re: Guys can we stop shitting on nubits
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2015, 12:40:32 AM »
To get a 1st-hand perspective of what our recent NuBits-bashing is like, go over to the Nxt forum and try to start a discussion on BitShares. The mindless tribalistic hatred you will experience is something we should be very careful not to dish out to our competitors.

Well-thought-out criticism is great, but whatever we do, we should never act like the Nxt folks.

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Sorry, but that's álso a generalisation :)
Some obviously do, and that's their problem.

Others (which is most probably the silent majority) are interested in both Nxt, Bitshares and a few others systems, too.

One of the problems is that the people who like to shout (in ány community) shout very loudly, up to the point where communities look like they are made up of a group of shouting baboons at time.

That happens on Bitcointalk, Nxt forum and no doubt you at times have the same.

I am admin on the Nxt forum, and no, I do not hate Bitshares. Neither do any of my colleagues. I may have my doubts about some things, but am open to being persuaded, like any sane person would be. I lurk here and also read along. It's only normal to do so.

"the Nxt folks" do not exist. Any community is diverse and will include nice and less nice people.


Offline santaclause102

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Re: Guys can we stop shitting on nubits
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2015, 12:46:24 AM »
To get a 1st-hand perspective of what our recent NuBits-bashing is like, go over to the Nxt forum and try to start a discussion on BitShares. The mindless tribalistic hatred you will experience is something we should be very careful not to dish out to our competitors.

Well-thought-out criticism is great, but whatever we do, we should never act like the Nxt folks.

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

Sorry, but that's álso a generalisation :)
Some obviously do, and that's their problem.

Others (which is most probably the silent majority) are interested in both Nxt, Bitshares and a few others systems, too.

One of the problems is that the people who like to shout (in ány community) shout very loudly, up to the point where communities look like they are made up of a group of shouting baboons at time.

That happens on Bitcointalk, Nxt forum and no doubt you at times have the same.

I am admin on the Nxt forum, and no, I do not hate Bitshares. Neither do any of my colleagues. I may have my doubts about some things, but am open to being persuaded, like any sane person would be. I lurk here and also read along. It's only normal to do so.

"the Nxt folks" do not exist. Any community is diverse and will include nice and less nice people.
Now everyone can test his position on how to best convince others:
Would you rather take a second look at NXT and listen to the doubts Damelon has about Bitshares when he come across as friendly and rational like this or would you rather listen to some angry and aggressive next guy that tries to threaten Bitshares?

Offline cgafeng

Re: Guys can we stop shitting on nubits
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2015, 12:46:42 AM »
can't agree more.
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Offline bytemaster

Re: Guys can we stop shitting on nubits
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2015, 01:03:32 AM »
It was actually a coincidence That I posted that on their single largest daily gain. I didn't notice their game until after I had published.   I thought the timing was perfect.   

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Offline biophil

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Re: Guys can we stop shitting on nubits
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2015, 05:48:02 AM »
To get a 1st-hand perspective of what our recent NuBits-bashing is like, go over to the Nxt forum and try to start a discussion on BitShares. The mindless tribalistic hatred you will experience is something we should be very careful not to dish out to our competitors.

Well-thought-out criticism is great, but whatever we do, we should never act like the Nxt folks.

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

Sorry, but that's álso a generalisation :)
Some obviously do, and that's their problem.

Others (which is most probably the silent majority) are interested in both Nxt, Bitshares and a few others systems, too.

One of the problems is that the people who like to shout (in ány community) shout very loudly, up to the point where communities look like they are made up of a group of shouting baboons at time.

That happens on Bitcointalk, Nxt forum and no doubt you at times have the same.

I am admin on the Nxt forum, and no, I do not hate Bitshares. Neither do any of my colleagues. I may have my doubts about some things, but am open to being persuaded, like any sane person would be. I lurk here and also read along. It's only normal to do so.

"the Nxt folks" do not exist. Any community is diverse and will include nice and less nice people.

Welcome, Damelon!

I realize that when I talk about "the Nxt folks," I'm mostly talking about 2Kool4Skewl. It's what you said - the people who shout loudly are the ones who the community becomes known for, and there's nothing that the "good" community members can do about that. I know as well as anybody that we have "the BitShares folks" too.

I guess I was trying to put in a word to help people be less like 2Kool4Skewl and/or tonyk (one of our loudmouths around here), and I'm sorry that I implicated the good people at Nxt. Don't worry, I really do know that you aren't all that way!

Offline mint chocolate chip

Re: Guys can we stop shitting on nubits
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2015, 06:38:17 AM »
This makes sense:
"Bad mouthing the competition may come out of frustration; you believe you can provide a genuinely better product or service but are having difficulty conveying it. You may even feel some comments are perfectly innocent; perhaps you’ve heard some horror stories or know for a fact you deliver a better service in some areas, but the reality is that buyers are looking for reasons to buy from you, not reasons why not to buy from someone else! By resorting to competitor-bashing, it puts you in to a weak position, undermining what you are saying and thereby making your comments counter-productive." http://www.business2community.com/strategy/bad-mouthing-competition-help-hinder-sales-0658482


Looking forward a few months NuBITS will probably be completely off our radar as we compete against new and improved projects that actually matter. From a value standpoint, it only makes sense to foster an ongoing positive reputation for BitShares.

Offline gamey

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Re: Guys can we stop shitting on nubits
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2015, 10:11:17 AM »
This makes sense:
"Bad mouthing the competition may come out of frustration; you believe you can provide a genuinely better product or service but are having difficulty conveying it. You may even feel some comments are perfectly innocent; perhaps you’ve heard some horror stories or know for a fact you deliver a better service in some areas, but the reality is that buyers are looking for reasons to buy from you, not reasons why not to buy from someone else! By resorting to competitor-bashing, it puts you in to a weak position, undermining what you are saying and thereby making your comments counter-productive." http://www.business2community.com/strategy/bad-mouthing-competition-help-hinder-sales-0658482


Looking forward a few months NuBITS will probably be completely off our radar as we compete against new and improved projects that actually matter. From a value standpoint, it only makes sense to foster an ongoing positive reputation for BitShares.
On the other hand, how would anyone know what makes you special if you don't frame your strengths appropriately?  Not everyone is a market geek.



These conversations are endlessly amusing to me.  What you have is a vocal minority complaining about a vocal minority and everyone else drawing conclusions about the quiet majority. 

What I do know is effective is complaining about how others behave because it tends to make a reality for anyone who doesn't already have an opinion.  Whats that mean?  I don't know but there is almost no downside to doing this.

I speak for myself and only myself.

 

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