Bitshares and LLC

Riverhead · January 20, 2015, 03:27:54 PM

What about a REIT that only sold to people not living in the US. That might get you off the SEC's radar.

Gentso1 · January 20, 2015, 03:15:48 PM

I too have thought about this but I am not sure how it would be possible.

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/security.asp

Any thoughts on the above?

wesphily · January 20, 2015, 02:46:47 PM

Bytemaster,

That sounds cool. Is that what you meant by tracking property rights?

bytemaster · January 20, 2015, 02:28:58 PM

Quote from: wesphily on January 20, 2015, 01:56:39 PM
Quote from: xiahui135 on January 20, 2015, 01:16:30 PM
What will happen if someone lost his/her token? In real world, you can get back the account will your ID card or other things. it is dangerous to use bitshare because once one's computer is hacked and the shares will be lost and could never get back.
Can some give solutions to solve this problem?

This is a unique problem to crypto shares. There most likely is not a solution that you would like. I expect that it would mean that you just lost a lot of uninsured money. You could try to use law to find and sue the guilty party, but the chances of that being successful or almost -%.

With new UIA system you can white list owner accounts which will prevent theft by strangers and who ever is in charge of "the books" can retain full control over all shares. As long as they don't lose their cold multi-sig keys then it should be fine.

That said, this market is very young and immature so use at your own risk.

wesphily · January 20, 2015, 01:56:39 PM

Quote from: xiahui135 on January 20, 2015, 01:16:30 PM
What will happen if someone lost his/her token? In real world, you can get back the account will your ID card or other things. it is dangerous to use bitshare because once one's computer is hacked and the shares will be lost and could never get back.
Can some give solutions to solve this problem?

This is a unique problem to crypto shares. There most likely is not a solution that you would like. I expect that it would mean that you just lost a lot of uninsured money. You could try to use law to find and sue the guilty party, but the chances of that being successful or almost -%.

wesphily · January 20, 2015, 01:47:54 PM

Quote from: bytemaster on January 20, 2015, 01:08:31 PM
Bitshares can do your accounting and track property rights, but it cannot make it trust free.

I understand how it can do accounting. How can it track property rights?

xiahui135 · January 20, 2015, 01:16:30 PM

What will happen if someone lost his/her token? In real world, you can get back the account will your ID card or other things. it is dangerous to use bitshare because once one's computer is hacked and the shares will be lost and could never get back.
Can some give solutions to solve this problem?

bytemaster · January 20, 2015, 01:08:31 PM

Bitshares can do your accounting and track property rights, but it cannot make it trust free.

wesphily · January 20, 2015, 12:44:28 PM

Quote from: cube on January 20, 2015, 05:30:17 AM
Quote from: wesphily on January 20, 2015, 05:12:18 AM
Some people create a new LLC for each deal depending on if the same partners are used are not. LLC is popular due to no double tax. Would it be ideal to create a new asset for each deal? I could setup the terms so that investors know exactly what they could return.

The only downside is that I'm not sure how to make it trustless. I'd have to somehow prove to others my intent to perform.

Even though LLC can avoid the so-called 'double tax', a corporation will give you better legal protection. The entity is separate from the individual. A corporation issues shares and you can use bitshare as a tool to issue share as tokens. You can use the user-issued-asset for this or you can have your own bitshare tool where each 'bts' is treated as a share in your corporation.

That may be the only true way. It is many times more cumbersome/regulated/expensive to do though. My hope is that bitshares has the power to enable people on the lower end of the spectrum. If it can't then I'll need to wait for a feature/coin that can if it ever exists. "Doing for business what bitcoin did....." I'd like to believe small businesses were thought of in that quote. The first coin that can incubate small businesses will easily beat out other coins.

cube · January 20, 2015, 05:30:17 AM

Quote from: wesphily on January 20, 2015, 05:12:18 AM
Some people create a new LLC for each deal depending on if the same partners are used are not. LLC is popular due to no double tax. Would it be ideal to create a new asset for each deal? I could setup the terms so that investors know exactly what they could return.

The only downside is that I'm not sure how to make it trustless. I'd have to somehow prove to others my intent to perform.

Even though LLC can avoid the so-called 'double tax', a corporation will give you better legal protection. The entity is separate from the individual. A corporation issues shares and you can use bitshare as a tool to issue share as tokens. You can use the user-issued-asset for this or you can have your own bitshare tool where each 'bts' is treated as a share in your corporation.

wesphily · January 20, 2015, 05:12:18 AM

Some people create a new LLC for each deal depending on if the same partners are used are not. LLC is popular due to no double tax. Would it be ideal to create a new asset for each deal? I could setup the terms so that investors know exactly what they could return.

The only downside is that I'm not sure how to make it trustless. I'd have to somehow prove to others my intent to perform.

toast · January 20, 2015, 05:08:56 AM

Quote from: crypto_prometheus on January 20, 2015, 04:56:19 AM
Is somebody working on a whitepaper for User issued assets? I too have been trying to find answers to questions about their function and how they allow compliance with securities laws.

http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/09/Overstock-to-Crypto-Stock/

CryptoPrometheus · January 20, 2015, 04:56:19 AM

Is somebody working on a whitepaper for User issued assets? I too have been trying to find answers to questions about their function and how they allow compliance with securities laws.

wesphily · January 20, 2015, 04:51:14 AM

Quote from: toast on January 20, 2015, 04:40:31 AM
Quote from: wesphily on January 20, 2015, 04:35:10 AM
I definitely do not want to get around laws. My goal is to increase my leverage so that I can do larger and more profitable deals. I am hoping that I can utilize bitshares in some way to accomplish this.

Why would real estate not be "dacafiable?" There are several publicly traded real estate firms.

Basically you're looking to issue your equity onto a blockchain. You can do that!

Being publicly traded doesn't make your company decentralized or autonomous. You will still be a traditional centralized company with a traditional centralized incentive structure, you'll just have your shares use hip new technology instead of being listed on NASDAQ.

That's exactly what I want to do. The reason I'm not going to be listing on Nasdaq/S&P 500/whatever is because my company would not qualify. It could qualify on bitshares though. It would enable a small business like mine to conquer larger deals while returning decent profit to serious investors.

However, would this idea be completely dismissed since the company itself would not be a dac? Has anybody else discussed an idea like this?

toast · January 20, 2015, 04:40:31 AM

Quote from: wesphily on January 20, 2015, 04:35:10 AM
I definitely do not want to get around laws. My goal is to increase my leverage so that I can do larger and more profitable deals. I am hoping that I can utilize bitshares in some way to accomplish this.

Why would real estate not be "dacafiable?" There are several publicly traded real estate firms.

Basically you're looking to issue your equity onto a blockchain. You can do that!

Being publicly traded doesn't make your company decentralized or autonomous. You will still be a traditional centralized company with a traditional centralized incentive structure, you'll just have your shares use hip new technology instead of being listed on NASDAQ.