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Offline Gentso1

a question about shorting
« on: January 26, 2015, 01:32:25 PM »

So I have been playing with shorting and I recently tried to cover 2 small orders. I did not have enough bitUSD to cover the orders. I did have more then enough in collateral for the orders. When you click the cover button I assumed that it would market sell the needed bts held in collateral to cover the order.I found that this was not the case instead all I got was a insufficient funds message.


Is this a bug or is it supposed to be this way? If it is supposed to be this why can someone please explain why.

Offline graffenwalder

Re: a question about shorting
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2015, 01:34:41 PM »
You are supposed to buy back bitusd and use that to cover your short.

If you don't do anything your short will cover itself automaticly after 30 days at price feed, but an 5% fee is applied then.

Offline bytemaster

Re: a question about shorting
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2015, 01:36:47 PM »
No 5% fee for expired cover, only low margin cover. 
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Offline Gentso1

Re: a question about shorting
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2015, 01:47:52 PM »
Ok but say you shorted with your whole stash of bts, Why can't the market take the bitUSD it needs off the top at the market rate before it gives you your locked up shares back.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2015, 01:52:12 PM by Gentso1 »

Offline lil_jay890

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Re: a question about shorting
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2015, 02:45:06 PM »
Ok but say you shorted with your whole stash of bts, Why can't the market take the bitUSD it needs off the top at the market rate before it gives you your locked up shares back.

This is a very important question.  The covering process should buy back bitUSD at market price...  We shouldn't have to go out and buy bitUSD in a separate order just to cover our open shorts

Offline xeroc

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Re: a question about shorting
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2015, 02:48:50 PM »
Ok but say you shorted with your whole stash of bts, Why can't the market take the bitUSD it needs off the top at the market rate before it gives you your locked up shares back.

This is a very important question.  The covering process should buy back bitUSD at market price...  We shouldn't have to go out and buy bitUSD in a separate order just to cover our open shorts
And what do you tell people that have bitUSD in their wallet complaining about the client BUYing bitUSD instead of using the own ones (hint: the blockchain does not know how many bitUSD you already have) ..
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Offline liondani

Re: a question about shorting
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2015, 02:53:15 PM »
No 5% fee for expired cover, only low margin cover.

can you not create a "self expiring"-like  button or auto-cover button?... (sorry if it's a dump question)
« Last Edit: January 26, 2015, 03:38:50 PM by liondani »
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Offline lil_jay890

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Re: a question about shorting
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2015, 03:10:27 PM »
Ok but say you shorted with your whole stash of bts, Why can't the market take the bitUSD it needs off the top at the market rate before it gives you your locked up shares back.

This is a very important question.  The covering process should buy back bitUSD at market price...  We shouldn't have to go out and buy bitUSD in a separate order just to cover our open shorts
And what do you tell people that have bitUSD in their wallet complaining about the client BUYing bitUSD instead of using the own ones (hint: the blockchain does not know how many bitUSD you already have) ..

So if we have all our bts tied up in collateral and want to cover our shorts we can't?  We just have to wait until the 30 days expire?  If this is true it is beyond dumb...  No one will ever trade on this platform and I now understand why the market cap of bitassets has been falling

Offline graffenwalder

Re: a question about shorting
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2015, 03:24:36 PM »
Ok but say you shorted with your whole stash of bts, Why can't the market take the bitUSD it needs off the top at the market rate before it gives you your locked up shares back.

This is a very important question.  The covering process should buy back bitUSD at market price...  We shouldn't have to go out and buy bitUSD in a separate order just to cover our open shorts
And what do you tell people that have bitUSD in their wallet complaining about the client BUYing bitUSD instead of using the own ones (hint: the blockchain does not know how many bitUSD you already have) ..

So if we have all our bts tied up in collateral and want to cover our shorts we can't?  We just have to wait until the 30 days expire?  If this is true it is beyond dumb...  No one will ever trade on this platform and I now understand why the market cap of bitassets has been falling
What is dumb?
Going short with your entire BTS holdings?
Not keeping some BTS aside so you can buy back along the 30 days?
Using a trading platform without understanding the rules?

Offline liondani

Re: a question about shorting
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2015, 03:40:19 PM »
Ok but say you shorted with your whole stash of bts, Why can't the market take the bitUSD it needs off the top at the market rate before it gives you your locked up shares back.

This is a very important question.  The covering process should buy back bitUSD at market price...  We shouldn't have to go out and buy bitUSD in a separate order just to cover our open shorts
And what do you tell people that have bitUSD in their wallet complaining about the client BUYing bitUSD instead of using the own ones (hint: the blockchain does not know how many bitUSD you already have) ..

So if we have all our bts tied up in collateral and want to cover our shorts we can't?  We just have to wait until the 30 days expire?  If this is true it is beyond dumb...  No one will ever trade on this platform and I now understand why the market cap of bitassets has been falling
What is dumb?
Going short with your entire BTS holdings?
Not keeping some BTS aside so you can buy back along the 30 days?
Using a trading platform without understanding the rules?

You are right but it would be much better to have less rules and make this thing as simple as possible!
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Offline lil_jay890

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Re: a question about shorting
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2015, 03:44:33 PM »
Hitting "cover" should execute the exact same process as a margin call.  It should use the bts locked up in collateral to buy the bitUSD back.  It should buy at the price feed.

No exchange makes you buy back short positions with money that was not locked up in the original collateral.

Offline Gentso1

Re: a question about shorting
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2015, 04:20:10 PM »
Hitting "cover" should execute the exact same process as a margin call.  It should use the bts locked up in collateral to buy the bitUSD back.  It should buy at the price feed.

No exchange makes you buy back short positions with money that was not locked up in the original collateral.

This is all I was saying/suggesting/asking....



I am not a day trader and this was my first shorting experience on any platform. I have done research about shorting in general and believe I understand the concept. If someone could explain why the above would be a bad idea I would like to hear it. You are buying bitUSD at the current given market rate whatever that is.

Offline liondani

Re: a question about shorting
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2015, 04:45:37 PM »
Hitting "cover" should execute the exact same process as a margin call.  It should use the bts locked up in collateral to buy the bitUSD back.  It should buy at the price feed.

No exchange makes you buy back short positions with money that was not locked up in the original collateral.

 +5%

PS of course without the 5% penalty  :)
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Offline vlight

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Re: a question about shorting
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2015, 04:49:25 PM »
Don't open one large short order, split it to several smaller shorts. Then you will need less BTS remaining in your account.

I have no idea why we have to buy BitUSD first to cover shorts whenever we want.

Offline Riverhead

Re: a question about shorting
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2015, 05:05:06 PM »

Since BTS is fungible it makes little difference if the short is covered with unlocked BTS or locked BTS. They'll both be unlocked as soon as the cover is executed and it'll be the same pool of funds again; indistinguishable from each other.

I suppose it could be argued that you should keep enough BTS aside for the eventual cover, effectively making it 4x collateral required, but I don't see the point.

 

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