Author Topic: Decentraliced Dice Game is a awsome idea!  (Read 12445 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Empirical1.2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1366
    • View Profile
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/oct/03/bet365-profit-china-online-gambling

Bet365 is a company with $350 million annual profit and $40 Billion turnover.

Quote
• Bet365 frequently changes its website addresses in China, thereby side-stepping attempts by local regulators to close sites down.

• The company has constructed a complex payments system that allows it to take bets placed using China’s currency, the renminbi.


Sure sounds like they would benefit from using DNS & BitCNY.




Asia the future of online gambling and a DAC like BTS is the most competitive vehicle to provide it.

« Last Edit: April 20, 2015, 12:45:29 pm by Empirical1.2 »
If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline xiahui135

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 496
    • View Profile

In fact there are several dices in NXT.  If we want to do it, then we should make it good. The users should not just the bts holders. It should be on a website as a gateway to attract new blood.

Yes it would be good if there was eventually a website too.

Where are the NXT dice sites? In the wallet?

I had a brief look.

http://neodice.com/   

It's a UIA in NXT. It says it's currently in beta. It has a CAP of $130 000. Doubt it will be popular as you have to trade your NXT for NEOCHIPS and then you have to deal with the very slow NXT blockchain (by comparison to centralised site.) Seems you might have to wait 4 minutes + to know if you had a winning spin.

PangeaPoker

It's another UIA on NXT. It has a CAP of $450 000 even though it is a few months away from launch. Not looked into it more. https://nxtforum.org/nxtventures/pangea-poker/

PrivateBet

UIA on NXT. A CAP of $70 000. Casino games and P2P sports betting. Also not launched yet might be same people doing NeoDice. Looks like they won funding/auction from Come-From-Beyond to develop it http://nxter.org/privatebet-asset-nxt-ae/

I don't know about the poker but I imagine the other games will be incredibly slow compared to centralized options, it also seems they will also require you to use UIA tokens as opposed to NXT.

Competitors like NXT are pursuing & working on dice, poker, casino games & P2P sports betting.
just need a website to list all the gamble for choosing.

Offline Empirical1.2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1366
    • View Profile
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/oct/03/bet365-profit-china-online-gambling

Bet365 is a company with $350 million annual profit and $40 Billion turnover.

Quote
• Bet365 frequently changes its website addresses in China, thereby side-stepping attempts by local regulators to close sites down.

• The company has constructed a complex payments system that allows it to take bets placed using China’s currency, the renminbi.


Sure sounds like they would benefit from using DNS & BitCNY.
If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline Empirical1.2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1366
    • View Profile
In fact there are several dices in NXT.  If we want to do it, then we should make it good. The users should not just the bts holders. It should be on a website as a gateway to attract new blood.

Yes it would be good if there was eventually a website too.

Where are the NXT dice sites? In the wallet?

I had a brief look.

http://neodice.com/   

It's a UIA in NXT. It says it's currently in beta. It has a CAP of $130 000. Doubt it will be popular as you have to trade your NXT for NEOCHIPS and then you have to deal with the very slow NXT blockchain (by comparison to centralised site.) Seems you might have to wait 4 minutes + to know if you had a winning spin.

PangeaPoker

It's another UIA on NXT. It has a CAP of $450 000 even though it is a few months away from launch. Not looked into it more. https://nxtforum.org/nxtventures/pangea-poker/

PrivateBet

UIA on NXT. A CAP of $70 000. Casino games and P2P sports betting. Also not launched yet might be same people doing NeoDice. Looks like they won funding/auction from Come-From-Beyond to develop it http://nxter.org/privatebet-asset-nxt-ae/

I don't know about the poker but I imagine the other games will be incredibly slow compared to centralized options, it also seems they will also require you to use UIA tokens as opposed to NXT.

Competitors like NXT are pursuing & working on dice, poker, casino games & P2P sports betting.


« Last Edit: February 02, 2015, 12:10:43 pm by Empirical1.2 »
If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline CalabiYau

........
The developers are getting paid, software is being written. In order to expand the market in my opinion you have to show that Bitshares is safe and regulatable either programmatically or externally depending on what users want. Minebitshares can market BitAssets and the serious games can be built into that but I don't see any reason why we need or require dice or gambling.
...........


 +5%

Offline joele

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 467
    • View Profile
If it's like bet on markets gambling like binary.com then it will be awesome

Offline luckybit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2921
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: Luckybit
I agree with Helikoperben, this is  a terrible idea. This kind of thing is better addressed by Play, putting gambling in BTS will just make us look desperate.

We are desperate; we are closer to the cliff than you realise.

I hate this idea, but sadly a dying person can't pick and choose.

I'm not desperate. I never thought Bitshares was "get rich quick".

So what are you desperate for when you're only one year in and it's a crypto recession?

The developers are getting paid, software is being written. In order to expand the market in my opinion you have to show that Bitshares is safe and regulatable either programmatically or externally depending on what users want. Minebitshares can market BitAssets and the serious games can be built into that but I don't see any reason why we need or require dice or gambling.

We were attracted to the idea of prediction markets. We should be predicting the outcome of the Superbowl not playing dice.  Economic activity we produce must also have social utility so it can be marketed as something "good" to mainstream society. Bingo might be fun but it's not going to save the world or even benefit Bitshares very much.

So in my opinion there has to be "serious games" which solve some social problem while also being fun. These "serious games" should help usher a new era and new kind of replacement for what we today call "jobs". It should be marketed as a fun way to make a profit while helping improve society. Dice cannot be marketed in that way and neither can Bingo.
In fact there are several dices in NXT.  If we want to do it, then we should make it good. The users should not just the bts holders. It should be on a website as a gateway to attract new blood.

Yes it would be good if there was eventually a website too.

Where are the NXT dice sites? In the wallet?

Gambling this early on will make the founders of Bitshares look greedy and unnecessarily shady. In my opinion you can have gaming elements, you can have chance, but it should be way more creative than to just take Dice or Bingo. That lack of creativity makes it look like a money making scam to attract suckers.

I understand that an influx of volume is good for Bitshares but I think simulating mining, and coming up with beneficial "serious games" is better than to just use casino style advertising. The whole point here is to advertise the protocol and show what it can do but you also have to innovate.

You can for example set up games where BTS are burned per play but maybe these serial games have puzzles in it which if solved actually benefit efforts in the real world. Think carefully about how games can be designed which are fun, which cost BTS, but which offer a chance to win, and make sure those games also have social utility. The idea is if you can you can make Bitshares look good while also increasing volume.

Also there is no reason to build it into the wallet. If you want to build it into the wallet that would be fine but there is no reason why it has to be.

In one of my previous posts I listed all sorts of serious games or beneficial games wihch can be used. I mentioned innovation games for example which could take advantage of the voting functionality to let people competitively generate innovation. I suggest you look into how these sorts of games can be created to the benefit of Bitshares:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innovation_game

If it cannot be done right then in my opinion it's better not to do it at all. I don't see anything innovative about Dice or Bingo. So it's just copying what other groups are doing and it doesn't seem to indirectly benefit Bitshares or even negligibly contribute to science like Primecoin. Marketing it to people who are already rich and who don't like gambling becomes impossible because it will lack social utility or utility for the Bitshares ecosystem. Minebitshares and Bitshares Wildcard seem like they are just gambling but if you look closely at the idea it has strategic social utility and benefits the ecosystem of crypto as a whole.

I think if Bitshares is going to do games it should do something different and live up to the reputation of innovation. I also think why not work with Bitshares Play which seems specifically designed for this purpose?

Maybe Bitshares Play can focus on gamification and then Bitshares can adopt what is proven to be fun.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2015, 02:49:34 am by luckybit »
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline Empirical1.2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1366
    • View Profile
In fact there are several dices in NXT.  If we want to do it, then we should make it good. The users should not just the bts holders. It should be on a website as a gateway to attract new blood.

Yes it would be good if there was eventually a website too.

Where are the NXT dice sites? In the wallet?
If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline xiahui135

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 496
    • View Profile
In fact there are several dices in NXT.  If we want to do it, then we should make it good. The users should not just the bts holders. It should be on a website as a gateway to attract new blood.

Offline Empirical1.2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1366
    • View Profile
Just one small side note :

If this gambling thing is build-in BTS wallet and goes viral  , it may hurt the adoption of BitCNY in China . Even lead to the ban of Bitshares in China .


So you better hope it's worth the risks . I'll be contacting lawyers to evaluate it  .


Play is taking a different approach using third party design  .

Well China is the biggest market atm. So yes that would be very important as well as the legal implications in general.

I'm afraid it'll even implicate those individual who provide 1:1 exchange with BitCNY  .
That's years of sentence in jail .

Oh well. That's a pity that BTS probably can't offer it  :'(

I see some centralized betting companies operate through China and make billions of dollars.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/oct/03/bet365-profit-china-online-gambling

Quote
China is one of the world’s largest online gambling markets despite the government having outlawed betting in all but a few controlled scenarios.

Quote
• Bet365 frequently changes its website addresses in China, thereby side-stepping attempts by local regulators to close sites down.

• The bookmaker has created a large call centre in Stoke staffed by Chinese-speaking workers.

• The company has constructed a complex payments system that allows it to take bets placed using China’s currency, the renminbi.

Quote
The Guardian has established that only about half of the £1.3bn the company won from gamblers in 2013 came from countries where bet365 possessed a licence to operate.

Quote
“There is no legislation that expressly prohibits the supply of remote gambling services into China by operators who are based outside China. Bet365 has no people, assets or infrastructure in China and does not engage any agents, aggregators or intermediaries, for any purpose, in China.

“In the view of bet365, and its lawyers, Chinese law does not extend to the provision of services into China by gambling operators and service providers who themselves have no nexus with the territory. Any allegation of illegality on the part of bet365 is therefore untrue.”

well , that's the thing , unlike bet365 , many people and groups who works for BTS are in China .

Yeah. It's just unfortunate that a DAC is at a disadvantage to a centralized company in this situation.

----

Bet365 had $350 million in profit in 2014, attracts millions of users and had $40 Billion wagered.

Quote
Pre-tax profits have risen by more than 44 per cent to £213.8 million – compared to £148 million – as the firm's 2.9 million active users in 2013/14 wagered more than £26 billion.

http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/bet-365-reports-massive-rise-profits-Stoke-Trent/story-21449091-detail/story.html

yeah , no one cares about decentralized or not for a gambling service , as long as they fee that they can get rich through it .
Centralized gambling is not necessary a buzz kill for  gambles . On the contrary , many of those centralized gambling sites have crazy volume .

Yes, I would say $40 billion is pretty crazy volume for 1 company in 1 year :)

I think DPOS blockchains can undercut centralized betting providers and solve the problem of smaller sites taking people's money as many Bitcoin ones have done.

Bitcoin options also have volatility which many gamblers and sites have been complaining about, which I linked to earlier in the thread.

So I think there's a lucrative market here, pity we can't be a part of it.
If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline btswildpig

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1424
    • View Profile
Just one small side note :

If this gambling thing is build-in BTS wallet and goes viral  , it may hurt the adoption of BitCNY in China . Even lead to the ban of Bitshares in China .


So you better hope it's worth the risks . I'll be contacting lawyers to evaluate it  .


Play is taking a different approach using third party design  .

Well China is the biggest market atm. So yes that would be very important as well as the legal implications in general.

I'm afraid it'll even implicate those individual who provide 1:1 exchange with BitCNY  .
That's years of sentence in jail .

Oh well. That's a pity that BTS probably can't offer it  :'(

I see some centralized betting companies operate through China and make billions of dollars.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/oct/03/bet365-profit-china-online-gambling

Quote
China is one of the world’s largest online gambling markets despite the government having outlawed betting in all but a few controlled scenarios.

Quote
• Bet365 frequently changes its website addresses in China, thereby side-stepping attempts by local regulators to close sites down.

• The bookmaker has created a large call centre in Stoke staffed by Chinese-speaking workers.

• The company has constructed a complex payments system that allows it to take bets placed using China’s currency, the renminbi.

Quote
The Guardian has established that only about half of the £1.3bn the company won from gamblers in 2013 came from countries where bet365 possessed a licence to operate.

Quote
“There is no legislation that expressly prohibits the supply of remote gambling services into China by operators who are based outside China. Bet365 has no people, assets or infrastructure in China and does not engage any agents, aggregators or intermediaries, for any purpose, in China.

“In the view of bet365, and its lawyers, Chinese law does not extend to the provision of services into China by gambling operators and service providers who themselves have no nexus with the territory. Any allegation of illegality on the part of bet365 is therefore untrue.”

well , that's the thing , unlike bet365 , many people and groups who works for BTS are in China .

Yeah. It's just unfortunate that a DAC is at a disadvantage to a centralized company in this situation.

----

Bet365 had $350 million in profit in 2014, attracts millions of users and had $40 Billion wagered.

Quote
Pre-tax profits have risen by more than 44 per cent to £213.8 million – compared to £148 million – as the firm's 2.9 million active users in 2013/14 wagered more than £26 billion.

http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/bet-365-reports-massive-rise-profits-Stoke-Trent/story-21449091-detail/story.html

yeah , no one cares about decentralized or not for a gambling service , as long as they fee that they can get rich through it .
Centralized gambling is not necessary a buzz kill for  gambles . On the contrary , many of those centralized gambling sites have crazy volume .
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline Empirical1.2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1366
    • View Profile
Just one small side note :

If this gambling thing is build-in BTS wallet and goes viral  , it may hurt the adoption of BitCNY in China . Even lead to the ban of Bitshares in China .


So you better hope it's worth the risks . I'll be contacting lawyers to evaluate it  .


Play is taking a different approach using third party design  .

Well China is the biggest market atm. So yes that would be very important as well as the legal implications in general.

I'm afraid it'll even implicate those individual who provide 1:1 exchange with BitCNY  .
That's years of sentence in jail .

Oh well. That's a pity that BTS probably can't offer it  :'(

I see some centralized betting companies operate through China and make billions of dollars.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/oct/03/bet365-profit-china-online-gambling

Quote
China is one of the world’s largest online gambling markets despite the government having outlawed betting in all but a few controlled scenarios.

Quote
• Bet365 frequently changes its website addresses in China, thereby side-stepping attempts by local regulators to close sites down.

• The bookmaker has created a large call centre in Stoke staffed by Chinese-speaking workers.

• The company has constructed a complex payments system that allows it to take bets placed using China’s currency, the renminbi.

Quote
The Guardian has established that only about half of the £1.3bn the company won from gamblers in 2013 came from countries where bet365 possessed a licence to operate.

Quote
“There is no legislation that expressly prohibits the supply of remote gambling services into China by operators who are based outside China. Bet365 has no people, assets or infrastructure in China and does not engage any agents, aggregators or intermediaries, for any purpose, in China.

“In the view of bet365, and its lawyers, Chinese law does not extend to the provision of services into China by gambling operators and service providers who themselves have no nexus with the territory. Any allegation of illegality on the part of bet365 is therefore untrue.”

well , that's the thing , unlike bet365 , many people and groups who works for BTS are in China .

Yeah. It's just unfortunate that a DAC is at a disadvantage to a centralized company in this situation.

----

Bet365 had $350 million in profit in 2014, attracts millions of users and had $40 Billion wagered.

Quote
Pre-tax profits have risen by more than 44 per cent to £213.8 million – compared to £148 million – as the firm's 2.9 million active users in 2013/14 wagered more than £26 billion.

http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/bet-365-reports-massive-rise-profits-Stoke-Trent/story-21449091-detail/story.html
« Last Edit: February 01, 2015, 06:58:36 pm by Empirical1.2 »
If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline btswildpig

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1424
    • View Profile
Just one small side note :

If this gambling thing is build-in BTS wallet and goes viral  , it may hurt the adoption of BitCNY in China . Even lead to the ban of Bitshares in China .


So you better hope it's worth the risks . I'll be contacting lawyers to evaluate it  .


Play is taking a different approach using third party design  .

Well China is the biggest market atm. So yes that would be very important as well as the legal implications in general.

I'm afraid it'll even implicate those individual who provide 1:1 exchange with BitCNY  .
That's years of sentence in jail .

Oh well. That's a pity that BTS probably can't offer it  :'(

I see some centralized betting companies operate through China and make billions of dollars.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/oct/03/bet365-profit-china-online-gambling

Quote
China is one of the world’s largest online gambling markets despite the government having outlawed betting in all but a few controlled scenarios.

Quote
• Bet365 frequently changes its website addresses in China, thereby side-stepping attempts by local regulators to close sites down.

• The bookmaker has created a large call centre in Stoke staffed by Chinese-speaking workers.

• The company has constructed a complex payments system that allows it to take bets placed using China’s currency, the renminbi.

Quote
The Guardian has established that only about half of the £1.3bn the company won from gamblers in 2013 came from countries where bet365 possessed a licence to operate.

Quote
“There is no legislation that expressly prohibits the supply of remote gambling services into China by operators who are based outside China. Bet365 has no people, assets or infrastructure in China and does not engage any agents, aggregators or intermediaries, for any purpose, in China.

“In the view of bet365, and its lawyers, Chinese law does not extend to the provision of services into China by gambling operators and service providers who themselves have no nexus with the territory. Any allegation of illegality on the part of bet365 is therefore untrue.”

well , that's the thing , unlike bet365 , many people and groups who works for BTS are in China .
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline Empirical1.2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1366
    • View Profile
Just one small side note :

If this gambling thing is build-in BTS wallet and goes viral  , it may hurt the adoption of BitCNY in China . Even lead to the ban of Bitshares in China .


So you better hope it's worth the risks . I'll be contacting lawyers to evaluate it  .


Play is taking a different approach using third party design  .

Well China is the biggest market atm. So yes that would be very important as well as the legal implications in general.

I'm afraid it'll even implicate those individual who provide 1:1 exchange with BitCNY  .
That's years of sentence in jail .

Oh well. That's a pity that BTS probably can't offer it  :'(

I see some centralized betting companies operate through China and make billions of dollars.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/oct/03/bet365-profit-china-online-gambling

Quote
China is one of the world’s largest online gambling markets despite the government having outlawed betting in all but a few controlled scenarios.

Quote
• Bet365 frequently changes its website addresses in China, thereby side-stepping attempts by local regulators to close sites down.

• The bookmaker has created a large call centre in Stoke staffed by Chinese-speaking workers.

• The company has constructed a complex payments system that allows it to take bets placed using China’s currency, the renminbi.

Quote
The Guardian has established that only about half of the £1.3bn the company won from gamblers in 2013 came from countries where bet365 possessed a licence to operate.

Quote
“There is no legislation that expressly prohibits the supply of remote gambling services into China by operators who are based outside China. Bet365 has no people, assets or infrastructure in China and does not engage any agents, aggregators or intermediaries, for any purpose, in China.

“In the view of bet365, and its lawyers, Chinese law does not extend to the provision of services into China by gambling operators and service providers who themselves have no nexus with the territory. Any allegation of illegality on the part of bet365 is therefore untrue.”
If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline btswildpig

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1424
    • View Profile
Just one small side note :

If this gambling thing is build-in BTS wallet and goes viral  , it may hurt the adoption of BitCNY in China . Even lead to the ban of Bitshares in China .


So you better hope it's worth the risks . I'll be contacting lawyers to evaluate it  .


Play is taking a different approach using third party design  .

Well China is the biggest market atm. So yes that would be very important as well as the legal implications in general.

I'm afraid it'll even implicate those individual who provide 1:1 exchange with BitCNY  .
That's years of sentence in jail .
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.