Author [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] Topic: Controversy is POISON when it divides the community  (Read 908 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline sschechter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 380
    • View Profile
Controversy is POISON when it divides the community
« on: February 03, 2015, 03:47:01 AM »

Who was it that said controversy is a good thing?  Was it the guy who no longer works here because most of the community was not satisfied with his work? I believe so...

-Controversy is a good thing if we are unified in our message

-Controversy is POISON if it divides the community

At the time of this message, 68% of voters think Bingo is a bad idea.  Please don't make the wrong decision.  If it will only take 80 hours to implement, instead, try using those hours on tooltips, help messages, a help section in the menu bar.  Even something simple like a link to the bitshares wiki would be useful.  Better yet, link context based help messages to appropriate section in the wiki.  What the hell do all those voting options means?  Well gee, how about a link to voting explained section in the wiki? This ISNT rocket science....

Imagine if BitShares was TurboTax.  Do you think Intuit would take a dump without any help messages and expect to keep their customers?  Surely you can do your taxes from the command line, why wouldn't anyone want to do that? You can Google your way to the answer, if you don't get distracted by a competitor along the way.

I'm a few versions back, so some of these points may be out of date.  But last I checked, the market was still....how do you say 'not sexy.'  Like a fat old toothless hag.  I want a smooth seamless trading experience like Bter. That alone will bring more gamblers to our system than some shitty bingo game.  I like bingo.  But I don't want it on BitShares when basic functions are lacking.  Where are multi-tabbed markets??  I can't trade GOLD, EUR and USD at the same time.  Where is the common panel where I can see all my feeds? Traders need to trade in multiple markets at once - and they need to see when prices move in one common dashboard type panel that's available from everywhere in the app.  Traders need to get in on the action as soon as the price moves.  They can't (and they wont) be bothered clicking back and forth all day.  If it takes 5 clicks to go from one market to another, no one will do it except the religious.  Online poker players don't play on one table at a time, and neither do traders. Multi-tabbed markets will bring move volume than some controversial gimmick. Minimizing the amount of button clicks needed to perform functions is UI design 101.

We are getting sharedropped by PLAY.  Why disrespect their community with this idea? Let them handle gaming.

Its quite amazing all these brilliant ideas that went into BitShares, while the basics keep getting fucked up.  It doesn't matter how far ahead of the curve it is, as long as BitShares can't get the basics right, it will remain a toy for overgrown children, and not a serious investment for mainstream adoption.  If its not easy, no one will use it except the people already using it.
BTSX: sschechter
PTS: PvBUyPrDRkJLVXZfvWjdudRtQgv1Fcy5Qe

Offline cn-members

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 365
    • View Profile
Re: Controversy is POISON when it divides the community
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2015, 03:50:14 AM »
Just a side note , PLAY don't do gambling themselves also .
BTS中文区发言人公共账号,帮助社区有效沟通与交流。
Chinese Community Spokesman Account,to help the effective communication between Chinese and other members of the community.We're not translators to do regular translations , but will help with vital ones as we see fit and available at that time.

Offline BunkerChain Labs

Re: Controversy is POISON when it divides the community
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2015, 04:01:59 AM »
Who was it that said controversy is a good thing?  Was it the guy who no longer works here because most of the community was not satisfied with his work? I believe so...

-Controversy is a good thing if we are unified in our message

-Controversy is POISON if it divides the community

At the time of this message, 68% of voters think Bingo is a bad idea.  Please don't make the wrong decision.  If it will only take 80 hours to implement, instead, try using those hours on tooltips, help messages, a help section in the menu bar.  Even something simple like a link to the bitshares wiki would be useful.  Better yet, link context based help messages to appropriate section in the wiki.  What the hell do all those voting options means?  Well gee, how about a link to voting explained section in the wiki? This ISNT rocket science....

Imagine if BitShares was TurboTax.  Do you think Intuit would take a dump without any help messages and expect to keep their customers?  Surely you can do your taxes from the command line, why wouldn't anyone want to do that? You can Google your way to the answer, if you don't get distracted by a competitor along the way.

I'm a few versions back, so some of these points may be out of date.  But last I checked, the market was still....how do you say 'not sexy.'  Like a fat old toothless hag.  I want a smooth seamless trading experience like Bter. That alone will bring more gamblers to our system than some shitty bingo game.  I like bingo.  But I don't want it on BitShares when basic functions are lacking.  Where are multi-tabbed markets??  I can't trade GOLD, EUR and USD at the same time.  Where is the common panel where I can see all my feeds? Traders need to trade in multiple markets at once - and they need to see when prices move in one common dashboard type panel that's available from everywhere in the app.  Traders need to get in on the action as soon as the price moves.  They can't (and they wont) be bothered clicking back and forth all day.  If it takes 5 clicks to go from one market to another, no one will do it except the religious.  Online poker players don't play on one table at a time, and neither do traders. Multi-tabbed markets will bring move volume than some controversial gimmick. Minimizing the amount of button clicks needed to perform functions is UI design 101.

We are getting sharedropped by PLAY.  Why disrespect their community with this idea? Let them handle gaming.

Its quite amazing all these brilliant ideas that went into BitShares, while the basics keep getting fucked up.  It doesn't matter how far ahead of the curve it is, as long as BitShares can't get the basics right, it will remain a toy for overgrown children, and not a serious investment for mainstream adoption.  If its not easy, no one will use it except the people already using it.

All very well said.  +5%

Your suggestions to improve the client are great too. I say yay to all that.
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
www.Peerplays.com | World's First Decentralized Tournament Platform Built Entirely on the Blockchain!
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Online nomoreheroes7

Re: Controversy is POISON when it divides the community
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2015, 04:08:11 AM »
Who was it that said controversy is a good thing?  Was it the guy who no longer works here because most of the community was not satisfied with his work? I believe so...

-Controversy is a good thing if we are unified in our message

-Controversy is POISON if it divides the community

At the time of this message, 68% of voters think Bingo is a bad idea.  Please don't make the wrong decision.  If it will only take 80 hours to implement, instead, try using those hours on tooltips, help messages, a help section in the menu bar.  Even something simple like a link to the bitshares wiki would be useful.  Better yet, link context based help messages to appropriate section in the wiki.  What the hell do all those voting options means?  Well gee, how about a link to voting explained section in the wiki? This ISNT rocket science....

Imagine if BitShares was TurboTax.  Do you think Intuit would take a dump without any help messages and expect to keep their customers?  Surely you can do your taxes from the command line, why wouldn't anyone want to do that? You can Google your way to the answer, if you don't get distracted by a competitor along the way.

I'm a few versions back, so some of these points may be out of date.  But last I checked, the market was still....how do you say 'not sexy.'  Like a fat old toothless hag.  I want a smooth seamless trading experience like Bter. That alone will bring more gamblers to our system than some shitty bingo game.  I like bingo.  But I don't want it on BitShares when basic functions are lacking.  Where are multi-tabbed markets??  I can't trade GOLD, EUR and USD at the same time.  Where is the common panel where I can see all my feeds? Traders need to trade in multiple markets at once - and they need to see when prices move in one common dashboard type panel that's available from everywhere in the app.  Traders need to get in on the action as soon as the price moves.  They can't (and they wont) be bothered clicking back and forth all day.  If it takes 5 clicks to go from one market to another, no one will do it except the religious.  Online poker players don't play on one table at a time, and neither do traders. Multi-tabbed markets will bring move volume than some controversial gimmick. Minimizing the amount of button clicks needed to perform functions is UI design 101.

We are getting sharedropped by PLAY.  Why disrespect their community with this idea? Let them handle gaming.

Its quite amazing all these brilliant ideas that went into BitShares, while the basics keep getting fucked up.  It doesn't matter how far ahead of the curve it is, as long as BitShares can't get the basics right, it will remain a toy for overgrown children, and not a serious investment for mainstream adoption.  If its not easy, no one will use it except the people already using it.

All very well said.  +5%

Your suggestions to improve the client are great too. I say yay to all that.

Yup. Nail, meet head. This is what BTS needs right now.

Offline yellowecho

Re: Controversy is POISON when it divides the community
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2015, 04:31:55 AM »
I think Play can handle the gaming for now.
Why couldn't the BitShares wallet just have an 'app store' that has a Games section with the DACs like Play?  It'd allow for BitShares to do cross-chain trading such as the upcoming noteUSD>bitUSD conversion too.
696c6f766562726f776e696573

Offline Helikopterben

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 202
    • View Profile
Re: Controversy is POISON when it divides the community
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2015, 04:40:30 AM »
I'm with you.  Heck, bitgold alone is potentially worth trillions.  The marketcap of gold is currently about 8 trillion dollars.  Imagine if gold were once again useful as money through bitgold.  Yet we are going to work on this little bingo side project to get more adoption?  That makes absolutely no sense.  Swing for the fences guys.  It looks like an easy home run to me, if done right.

Offline jsidhu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1337
    • View Profile
Re: Controversy is POISON when it divides the community
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2015, 04:48:49 AM »
Im not questioning bms judgement but I know he makes good ones after he goes away and reflects from within... I suggest he do the same with this.. If he says its a go i believe its the best for the project.. Just like all the other decisions they all end up looking good in hindsight..just need to step back and think..
Hired by blockchain | Developer
delegate: dev.sidhujag

Offline cass

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4329
  • /(┬.┬)\
    • View Profile
Re: Controversy is POISON when it divides the community
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2015, 05:07:26 AM »
I think Play can handle the gaming for now.
Why couldn't the BitShares wallet just have an 'app store' that has a Games section with the DACs like Play?  It'd allow for BitShares to do cross-chain trading such as the upcoming noteUSD>bitUSD conversion too.

I really like this idea but also pls after UX/UI got polished!
█║▌║║█  - - -  The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear  - - -  █║▌║║█

Offline werneo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 305
    • View Profile
    • chronicle of the precession of simulacra
  • BTS: werneo
Re: Controversy is POISON when it divides the community
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2015, 05:31:38 AM »
Who was it that said controversy is a good thing?  Was it the guy who no longer works here because most of the community was not satisfied with his work? I believe so...

-Controversy is a good thing if we are unified in our message

-Controversy is POISON if it divides the community

At the time of this message, 68% of voters think Bingo is a bad idea.  Please don't make the wrong decision.  If it will only take 80 hours to implement, instead, try using those hours on tooltips, help messages, a help section in the menu bar.  Even something simple like a link to the bitshares wiki would be useful.  Better yet, link context based help messages to appropriate section in the wiki.  What the hell do all those voting options means?  Well gee, how about a link to voting explained section in the wiki? This ISNT rocket science....

Imagine if BitShares was TurboTax.  Do you think Intuit would take a dump without any help messages and expect to keep their customers?  Surely you can do your taxes from the command line, why wouldn't anyone want to do that? You can Google your way to the answer, if you don't get distracted by a competitor along the way.

I'm a few versions back, so some of these points may be out of date.  But last I checked, the market was still....how do you say 'not sexy.'  Like a fat old toothless hag.  I want a smooth seamless trading experience like Bter. That alone will bring more gamblers to our system than some shitty bingo game.  I like bingo.  But I don't want it on BitShares when basic functions are lacking.  Where are multi-tabbed markets??  I can't trade GOLD, EUR and USD at the same time.  Where is the common panel where I can see all my feeds? Traders need to trade in multiple markets at once - and they need to see when prices move in one common dashboard type panel that's available from everywhere in the app.  Traders need to get in on the action as soon as the price moves.  They can't (and they wont) be bothered clicking back and forth all day.  If it takes 5 clicks to go from one market to another, no one will do it except the religious.  Online poker players don't play on one table at a time, and neither do traders. Multi-tabbed markets will bring move volume than some controversial gimmick. Minimizing the amount of button clicks needed to perform functions is UI design 101.

We are getting sharedropped by PLAY.  Why disrespect their community with this idea? Let them handle gaming.

Its quite amazing all these brilliant ideas that went into BitShares, while the basics keep getting fucked up.  It doesn't matter how far ahead of the curve it is, as long as BitShares can't get the basics right, it will remain a toy for overgrown children, and not a serious investment for mainstream adoption.  If its not easy, no one will use it except the people already using it.

 +5%

exactly right

Offline fuzzy

Re: Controversy is POISON when it divides the community
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2015, 05:39:08 AM »
Who was it that said controversy is a good thing?  Was it the guy who no longer works here because most of the community was not satisfied with his work? I believe so...

-Controversy is a good thing if we are unified in our message

-Controversy is POISON if it divides the community

At the time of this message, 68% of voters think Bingo is a bad idea.  Please don't make the wrong decision.  If it will only take 80 hours to implement, instead, try using those hours on tooltips, help messages, a help section in the menu bar.  Even something simple like a link to the bitshares wiki would be useful.  Better yet, link context based help messages to appropriate section in the wiki.  What the hell do all those voting options means?  Well gee, how about a link to voting explained section in the wiki? This ISNT rocket science....

Imagine if BitShares was TurboTax.  Do you think Intuit would take a dump without any help messages and expect to keep their customers?  Surely you can do your taxes from the command line, why wouldn't anyone want to do that? You can Google your way to the answer, if you don't get distracted by a competitor along the way.

I'm a few versions back, so some of these points may be out of date.  But last I checked, the market was still....how do you say 'not sexy.'  Like a fat old toothless hag.  I want a smooth seamless trading experience like Bter. That alone will bring more gamblers to our system than some shitty bingo game.  I like bingo.  But I don't want it on BitShares when basic functions are lacking.  Where are multi-tabbed markets??  I can't trade GOLD, EUR and USD at the same time.  Where is the common panel where I can see all my feeds? Traders need to trade in multiple markets at once - and they need to see when prices move in one common dashboard type panel that's available from everywhere in the app.  Traders need to get in on the action as soon as the price moves.  They can't (and they wont) be bothered clicking back and forth all day.  If it takes 5 clicks to go from one market to another, no one will do it except the religious.  Online poker players don't play on one table at a time, and neither do traders. Multi-tabbed markets will bring move volume than some controversial gimmick. Minimizing the amount of button clicks needed to perform functions is UI design 101.

We are getting sharedropped by PLAY.  Why disrespect their community with this idea? Let them handle gaming.

Its quite amazing all these brilliant ideas that went into BitShares, while the basics keep getting fucked up.  It doesn't matter how far ahead of the curve it is, as long as BitShares can't get the basics right, it will remain a toy for overgrown children, and not a serious investment for mainstream adoption.  If its not easy, no one will use it except the people already using it.

All very well said.  +5%

Your suggestions to improve the client are great too. I say yay to all that.

Yup. Nail, meet head. This is what BTS needs right now.

 +5%

I agree on all fronts.  While someone who has used the wallet since near day one (me) can somehow "lose" 50,000 BTS, it is a really bad idea to start focusing on other things...get the danged wallet PERFECT.  Then we can start talking about all the other stuff we can do to "customize" our own wallets. 

I think Play can handle the gaming for now.
Why couldn't the BitShares wallet just have an 'app store' that has a Games section with the DACs like Play?  It'd allow for BitShares to do cross-chain trading such as the upcoming noteUSD>bitUSD conversion too.
It will not work that way.  PLAY would be the app store for bitshares (or rather ONE of them, because there would likely be others).  As far as the cross-chain trading, I agree 100%.  I think we should be trying to get BitShares PERFECT, then reaching out and trying to get every other blockchain to utilize DPoS as the gold standard, then have their own version of USD so that eventually we can just start using each decentralized exchange for price feeds instead of centralized ones. 

Im not questioning bms judgement but I know he makes good ones after he goes away and reflects from within... I suggest he do the same with this.. If he says its a go i believe its the best for the project.. Just like all the other decisions they all end up looking good in hindsight..just need to step back and think..
I love you jsidhu...really bro, but now that this is coming to a head in the community, I want to say that I wholely agree we should not be adding this to the wallet until it is polished. 

Nobody is going to download our BitShares Wallet, try using it, encounter errors with little to no documentation, seek help on the forums, cry, rinse and repeat..then right before they are about to delete the thing go "oh wait, I can play a game of bingo...I guess I'll keep it".  BM I know you have pressure to get bitUSD and the bitAssets more volume, but this will happen over time---as long as you stick to your core principles of making it Perfectly Polished. 

Doesn't this remind you of the days when everyone was giving us hell about not even having a product?  You were working on making something truly innovative and when it FINALLY came out, people were pumped and the market showed how impressed it was.  Don't steer away of the original goal. 
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline CalabiYau

Re: Controversy is POISON when it divides the community
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2015, 09:43:56 AM »
Who was it that said controversy is a good thing?  Was it the guy who no longer works here because most of the community was not satisfied with his work? I believe so...

-Controversy is a good thing if we are unified in our message

-Controversy is POISON if it divides the community

At the time of this message, 68% of voters think Bingo is a bad idea.  Please don't make the wrong decision.  If it will only take 80 hours to implement, instead, try using those hours on tooltips, help messages, a help section in the menu bar.  Even something simple like a link to the bitshares wiki would be useful.  Better yet, link context based help messages to appropriate section in the wiki.  What the hell do all those voting options means?  Well gee, how about a link to voting explained section in the wiki? This ISNT rocket science....

Imagine if BitShares was TurboTax.  Do you think Intuit would take a dump without any help messages and expect to keep their customers?  Surely you can do your taxes from the command line, why wouldn't anyone want to do that? You can Google your way to the answer, if you don't get distracted by a competitor along the way.

I'm a few versions back, so some of these points may be out of date.  But last I checked, the market was still....how do you say 'not sexy.'  Like a fat old toothless hag.  I want a smooth seamless trading experience like Bter. That alone will bring more gamblers to our system than some shitty bingo game.  I like bingo.  But I don't want it on BitShares when basic functions are lacking.  Where are multi-tabbed markets??  I can't trade GOLD, EUR and USD at the same time.  Where is the common panel where I can see all my feeds? Traders need to trade in multiple markets at once - and they need to see when prices move in one common dashboard type panel that's available from everywhere in the app.  Traders need to get in on the action as soon as the price moves.  They can't (and they wont) be bothered clicking back and forth all day.  If it takes 5 clicks to go from one market to another, no one will do it except the religious.  Online poker players don't play on one table at a time, and neither do traders. Multi-tabbed markets will bring move volume than some controversial gimmick. Minimizing the amount of button clicks needed to perform functions is UI design 101.

We are getting sharedropped by PLAY.  Why disrespect their community with this idea? Let them handle gaming.

Its quite amazing all these brilliant ideas that went into BitShares, while the basics keep getting fucked up.  It doesn't matter how far ahead of the curve it is, as long as BitShares can't get the basics right, it will remain a toy for overgrown children, and not a serious investment for mainstream adoption.  If its not easy, no one will use it except the people already using it.

I fully agree        +5%

Offline matt608

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 878
    • View Profile
Re: Controversy is POISON when it divides the community
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2015, 09:48:34 AM »
Agree fully.

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12336
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BTS: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
Re: Controversy is POISON when it divides the community
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2015, 10:29:50 AM »
I am in .. and if I knew how to help out i would certainly do ..

Cant the devs just take a full day and improve on the in-client documentation? maybe just add tooltip refs and let the community work out the text (for a bounty)
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu powered by ChainSquad GmbH

Offline cass

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4329
  • /(┬.┬)\
    • View Profile
Re: Controversy is POISON when it divides the community
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2015, 10:38:01 AM »
i'll install local web wallet gui again also later! Maybe i can fix some GUI issues also!
█║▌║║█  - - -  The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear  - - -  █║▌║║█

Offline Empirical1.2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1366
    • View Profile
Re: Controversy is POISON when it divides the community
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2015, 10:55:56 AM »
I think it's clear this shouldn't be messed with in BTS right now as the community consensus is pretty unanimous and specifically because of the negative impact it may have on the Chinese market.

I think the numbers (early Bitcoin as well as new sites) show that a DAC which offered blockchain based BitAsset gambling could easily surpass BitShares.
If you want to take the island burn the boats

 

Google+