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Offline teenagecheese

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Management/Implementation Delegate Proposal
« on: February 07, 2015, 09:35:53 PM »

So it seems I've spurred some discussion about bitOIL and there appears to be interest, but it also seems like nothing is going to develop from this.

Maybe there is not enough of a demand for bitOIL, but whether it happens or not  is not the point. How do we provide a mechanism to get actually put this, and any other ideas, into action?

This is a bigger discussion than bitOIL feeds. It is about improving the bitshares system to make it so things that are good and will increase the value get done. Currently they do not. I propose that we have an implementation/management delegate to choose ideas the community wants, find people to implement, and track, review, and announce their progress in a public forum (maybe bitsharesblocks?) so people can vote them out if they don't do it what they should, to motivate them to make progress.

Offline gamey

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Re: Management/Implementation Delegate Proposal
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2015, 09:42:40 PM »

lmao
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Offline teenagecheese

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Re: Management/Implementation Delegate Proposal
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2015, 09:48:20 PM »
More about this:

"yes, I am on all of those except Nullstreet. Regardless, I was trying to make a point that we do not seem to have a solid plan for ultimate profitabity and adoption. We have some things in the works, but I do not feel they are enough. I do not feel that simply implementing those that are in the works is enough. Beside what I listed off the top of my head, I was asking to see a layout of the complete features planned that with make people use bitshares, bitassets, or other bitshares things.

I think we should have some central location where every feature that is going to happen is layed out with a schedule and who is working on them. Not just github for code, or Nullstreet for marketing, but everything in one place. This will help people to be able to vote out people that are not doing what they should and increase the productivity of delegates. I've just continued this idea on a new thread: Implementation/Management Delegate Proposal. Please read."

Offline teenagecheese

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Re: Management/Implementation Delegate Proposal
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2015, 09:49:08 PM »

Offline BunkerChain Labs

Re: Management/Implementation Delegate Proposal
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2015, 11:43:46 PM »

lmao

Please elaborate.

I think it means "Laugh My Ass Off".

I can't speak for gamey, but if I had to guess, I think this meant he found your proposal funny.

What part? I am not sure, there is a lot to choose from. Perhaps the centralized delegate dictator idea that sort of has no place for a decentralized ecosystem in particular? My best guess.

If you aren't happy with the product development everything is open source, you can always create your own to contribute and create them in the manner you have outlined as your method of organization.

Hope this helped elaborate.
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Offline eagleeye

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Re: Management/Implementation Delegate Proposal
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2015, 12:03:23 AM »
I propose anyone that wants to be a delegate who backs Method or Rgcrypto with there funding (meaning they dont take a salary initially) is allowed to be a delegate.

If the market cap of bitshares becomes 250 million they can all take small salaries (10% which would be like $1300 US a month)

Offline gamey

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Re: Management/Implementation Delegate Proposal
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2015, 12:10:55 AM »

Actually I was mainly being rude for no reason.  Carry on.  I thought you suggested this person motivate existing delegates somehow by themselves existing...

« Last Edit: February 08, 2015, 12:17:17 AM by gamey »
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Offline teenagecheese

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Re: Management/Implementation Delegate Proposal
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2015, 12:23:42 AM »
Data Security Node, I of course I know what lmao means, I was asking for what he thought was so funny. He has now specifiied.

As for your point, of course it would need to be done in some kind objective impartial way. I was merely proposing a concept, you decided to put words in my mouth and specify details of the concept which would obviously not fit well in this decentralized ecosystem.

Furthermore, due to my current full time job and circumstances, it would be very difficult for me to provide adequate services as a delegate, thus I put up a proposal in hopes that I could spur someone else to do it.

Offline edilliam

Re: Management/Implementation Delegate Proposal
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2015, 12:30:31 AM »
Management delegate? Don't forget, this is a leaderless, decentralized experiment. Who gives authority to this manager? Why should other delegates obey this delegate? The idea with the delegate system is that the best will be voted in by the stakeholders. If one delegate is failing and another potential delegate is doing a better job he should be voted in if he can communicate this effectively to the stakeholders. If the community feels like a role is needed and it doesn't exist then they will vote the best candidate in for this role. Management denotes hierarchy which is something we are trying to minimize as much as possible at the top level. This is really brand new exciting territory here! Sure, individual teams can and do have structure and hierarchy within them, but there should be no hierarchy across the top level of this DAC.

Management delegate, no. Communications delegate, perhaps.

I agree we need better roadmaps and we should improve our communication. Right now this is handled individually by the delegates. One of the problems is that there is so much stuff going on right now and so many different teams and individuals working in different areas and several sources of information about this that it can be hard for the casual observer to grasp all the goings on. The delegates that do not communicate effectively will probably be replaced by others of similar skill level that are better communicators. Don't forget we are still very close to the beginning of this experiment. We will evolve and get better at this over time.

One potential idea right now for example that I see would be for someone to create a site where all the delegates can have their own section to post details of what they have accomplished so far, what they are currently working on with regular updates, what their proposed business plans are, finances, budgets etc. The best delegates should rise to the top.

Edit: Also, like gamey, I saw the word management and jumped to the wrong conclusion looking back. Looks like we are in agreement then  :D  However, I believe this sort of thing should be in a User Generated Content style. If one delegate is reporting on others, how will they report on themselves? They will also have bias on reporting others. Even if they try their very hardest to not be biased, there will always be some bias. I say let the delegates report themselves, but give them better structure in which to do so.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2015, 12:47:13 AM by edilliam »

Offline gamey

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Re: Management/Implementation Delegate Proposal
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2015, 12:47:36 AM »
In the US lets say a very mediocre developer costs $70k a year.  We' pay a fraction of that.  This person has to understand the software codebase to even manage it.  So now we need 2 delegates to get the work from one person. etc. So they find others.. but they'll have to be overseas.  Now you basically have a software manager.  Are they doing to take the job for a delegate's pay?  Making a thread is great.. but the odds of finding the right person for this to work out is very hard.. and then if you find them, they'll likely need to have a lot of experience with hiring people from India etc.  Then they have to communicate the codebase to those Indian guys who won't give a crap about BitShares.. but before that they have to have a delegate voted in to pay for the work.  (Not picking on Indians here...)

So you see all these problems, and you come up with a solution.  It isn't bad it is just a tad naive.

We need a place to put updates.  I still like some variation of wall burning then it cna be put on bitsharesblocks .  There are a few problems though .. burning is anonymous, and even if it isn't, a person might not have their delegate's keys available to make the update.  Having it all integrated into the blockchain would be very nice and give a nice air of authority to what we are doing.  It also makes it obvious those who are doing nothing.
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Offline BunkerChain Labs

Re: Management/Implementation Delegate Proposal
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2015, 01:00:31 AM »
We need a place to put updates.  I still like some variation of wall burning then it cna be put on bitsharesblocks .  There are a few problems though .. burning is anonymous, and even if it isn't, a person might not have their delegate's keys available to make the update.  Having it all integrated into the blockchain would be very nice and give a nice air of authority to what we are doing.  It also makes it obvious those who are doing nothing.

I think a wiki format would be ideal. Directory of all current 101 delegates and past delegates that fell away. Each have their own page telling their history and their story. Delegates would have to keep a standardized timetable of reporting on the pages updated. Also maintain any other relevant information to what they are doing including links out to possible projects they are working on in relation.

I would be willing to setup a wiki for this purpose for everyone, however, your idea about the burn using the blockchain like you said makes sense... but if it comes to that perhaps if that new feature gets implemented it can have a feed with it so that it can be exported to be part of their wiki information.

Sound good? Other suggestions?
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Offline gamey

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Re: Management/Implementation Delegate Proposal
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2015, 01:04:22 AM »
We need a place to put updates.  I still like some variation of wall burning then it cna be put on bitsharesblocks .  There are a few problems though .. burning is anonymous, and even if it isn't, a person might not have their delegate's keys available to make the update.  Having it all integrated into the blockchain would be very nice and give a nice air of authority to what we are doing.  It also makes it obvious those who are doing nothing.

I think a wiki format would be ideal. Directory of all current 101 delegates and past delegates that fell away. Each have their own page telling their history and their story. Delegates would have to keep a standardized timetable of reporting on the pages updated. Also maintain any other relevant information to what they are doing including links out to possible projects they are working on in relation.

I would be willing to setup a wiki for this purpose for everyone, however, your idea about the burn using the blockchain like you said makes sense... but if it comes to that perhaps if that new feature gets implemented it can have a feed with it so that it can be exported to be part of their wiki information.

Sound good? Other suggestions?

Wiki works but I don't know why you'd want such an unstructured approach to the data.  It makes it hard to manage the updates.  I would like to see  updates sorted by date so we can see those who haven't been around etc. I also like the idea of short updates so we can feed some of it into twitter and maybe push out some interesting tweets.
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Offline teenagecheese

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Re: Management/Implementation Delegate Proposal
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2015, 01:06:52 AM »
Everyone, many of your answers to me are phrased as if I do not understand and am being ridiculous. You are acting as if this system is working perfectly and everything is getting done great. It is not doing that well though, barely anyone votes and many things are not getting done. I want to improve this mechanism.

I know it's supposed to be a decentralized system where bad delegates are voted out. I want it to be decentralized. Bitshares is a great basic concept, that is why I am here.

Stop taking my use of the word "management" so literally. Start assuming everything I suggest is supposed to fit within the decentralized framework of bitshares. We will make a lot more progress that way. If I have to literally type out everything I think in specific detail to make my point it would take too long. Work with me here, stop assuming all the negative possible intentions of my suggestions and instead assume the positive.

I am trying to find a find a way to improve bitshares. Help me.

Offline nomoreheroes7

Re: Management/Implementation Delegate Proposal
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2015, 01:12:00 AM »
I agree with teenagecheese's overall sentiment here, and not sure why people seem to be jumping down his throat. He's absolutely right the the current system flat out doesn't seem to be working, and appears to have some terrible inefficiencies at doing what it's supposed to do best -- incentivising shit to get done.

While another delegate may not be the right answer, the discussion to arrive at an answer is what's important. Because right now, shit stinks.

Offline teenagecheese

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Re: Management/Implementation Delegate Proposal
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2015, 01:22:58 AM »
Thank you. You understand. And I totally agree, it doesn't have to be another delegate. Just needs to be something. I should have come at this from another angle. The title should be: Help me figure out a way to improve bitshares, or something.

 

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