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Offline cube

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The Chinese community is upset over BTC38's non-response
« on: February 10, 2015, 03:22:30 PM »

The Chinese community has been craving for a response for long to no avail.  I hope someone can help them.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=13529.msg184391#msg184391
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Offline xeroc

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Re: The Chinese community is upset over BTC38's non-response
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2015, 03:25:24 PM »
Responds to what?
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Offline cube

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Re: The Chinese community is upset over BTC38's non-response
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2015, 03:35:18 PM »
From their earlier correspondence, it seems BTC38 realised some discrepancies in their calculation and promised to investigate and provide a formal announcement.  This announcement never come to past.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=13529.msg179230#msg179230
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Offline LRENZ

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Re: The Chinese community is upset over BTC38's non-response
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2015, 03:37:47 PM »
I still have no idea what the issue is here. I can't read Chinese  :-\
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Offline btswildpig

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Re: The Chinese community is upset over BTC38's non-response
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2015, 03:39:38 PM »
It's a BTC38 matter anyway . I'll tell their staff to try to get the boss on this matter again .
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Re: The Chinese community is upset over BTC38's non-response
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2015, 03:47:31 PM »
Its a chicken and egg problem with all mayoe exchanges. .. we need them to trade bts for price discorvery yet we dont like them to store alot of bts for security reasons (see NXT) .. sucks ..

Still not directly a problem of this community and i fear the bigger part of the forum just cant approach btc38... but we should try to keep FUD low
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Offline arhag

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Re: The Chinese community is upset over BTC38's non-response
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2015, 03:52:07 PM »
Its a chicken and egg problem with all mayoe exchanges. .. we need them to trade bts for price discorvery yet we dont like them to store alot of bts for security reasons

We don't need centralized exchanges for price discovery. We could use bitcoin gateways instead. Then price discovery (and purchasing BTS directly with "bitcoins") is possible on our decentralized exchange. No counterparty risk for the BTS being traded (just the "bitcoins") and more importantly voting rights are kept in the hands of the stake owners and not the exchanges.

This is how I hope we do price discovery for DVS. We just need julian1 and/or monsterer to set up GATEBTC for DevShares.

Also, I would love it if we could have a BitShares Standard Gateway for ECDSA coins to further reduce the counterparty risk.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 03:54:03 PM by arhag »

Offline btswildpig

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Re: The Chinese community is upset over BTC38's non-response
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2015, 03:53:12 PM »
It's an issue of the DNS compensation thing . People feel like they're not getting the proper amount that I3 provided .
They can not agree upon on the same math .
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline xeroc

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Re: The Chinese community is upset over BTC38's non-response
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2015, 05:34:32 PM »
We don't need centralized exchanges for price discovery. We could use bitcoin gateways instead. Then price discovery (and purchasing BTS directly with "bitcoins") is possible on our decentralized exchange. No counterparty risk for the BTS being traded (just the "bitcoins") and more importantly voting rights are kept in the hands of the stake owners and not the exchanges.
Totally agree here .. !!

Quote
This is how I hope we do price discovery for DVS. We just need julian1 and/or monsterer to set up GATEBTC for DevShares.

Also, I would love it if we could have a BitShares Standard Gateway for ECDSA coins to further reduce the counterparty risk.
Thinking bigger Brian :)  +5%
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Offline Rune

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Re: The Chinese community is upset over BTC38's non-response
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2015, 05:52:47 PM »
We don't even need to have active IOU to bitshares markets for price discovery. Delegate price feeds can just measure the peg of bitassets instead, and then multiply the internal market rate with the peg deviation to produce the feed for minimum short price, or let bitassets be shorted freely if there is no peg deviation (say within 1% error margin).

Offline Ander

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Re: The Chinese community is upset over BTC38's non-response
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2015, 06:12:51 PM »
and that was how the little BitShares killed the centralized exchange

the end

No, its more like "How the 'merger' killed bitshares"
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Offline arhag

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Re: The Chinese community is upset over BTC38's non-response
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2015, 06:20:33 PM »
We don't even need to have active IOU to bitshares markets for price discovery. Delegate price feeds can just measure the peg of bitassets instead, and then multiply the internal market rate with the peg deviation to produce the feed for minimum short price, or let bitassets be shorted freely if there is no peg deviation (say within 1% error margin).

How would you know what is the peg deviation of DevUSD from real USD if it is not trading against any asset that derives its value (in USD) from some chain of trading pairs leading to USD? We would only know whether the peg is actually working or not if DevUSD started trading against something like BTC or BTS or BitUSD at the expected price. I guess DevUSD could trade against BTC in centralized exchanges, but then wouldn't they just integrate DVS as well? I would prefer if we avoid using centralized exchanges for any DevShares assets because of how frequently we expect to hard fork the blockchain.

I guess one other way we could do it without gateways is through atomic cross-chain trading. If people are exchanging DevUSD for BitUSD 1:1 then we know the peg is good and the price feed doesn't need adjustments. But that information isn't very transparent or easy for the delegates to aggregate. Gateway assets make this much easier. In fact, maybe we should just skip GATEBTC and go for a GATEBITUSD UIA on DevShares backed by BitUSD locked on the BitShares blockchain by the counterparty.

Offline dna_gym

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Re: The Chinese community is upset over BTC38's non-response
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2015, 05:42:39 AM »
No, its more like "How the 'merger' killed bitshares"
Satoshi was against incorporating "BitDNS" feature (and other "generalization" features) into Bitcoin,
saying:
Quote from: satoshi
Piling every proof-of-work quorum system in the world into one dataset doesn't scale.
I hope above helps.

Offline Troglodactyl

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Re: The Chinese community is upset over BTC38's non-response
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2015, 05:52:13 AM »
No, its more like "How the 'merger' killed bitshares"
Satoshi was against incorporating "BitDNS" feature (and other "generalization" features) into Bitcoin,
saying:
Quote from: satoshi
Piling every proof-of-work quorum system in the world into one dataset doesn't scale.
I hope above helps.
Which is why we use DPOS, to eliminate POW and enable scaling by limiting required redundancy to the point we consider it actually useful for resiliency and security.

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Re: The Chinese community is upset over BTC38's non-response
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2015, 07:58:49 AM »
Its a chicken and egg problem with all mayoe exchanges. .. we need them to trade bts for price discorvery yet we dont like them to store alot of bts for security reasons

We don't need centralized exchanges for price discovery. We could use bitcoin gateways instead. Then price discovery (and purchasing BTS directly with "bitcoins") is possible on our decentralized exchange. No counterparty risk for the BTS being traded (just the "bitcoins") and more importantly voting rights are kept in the hands of the stake owners and not the exchanges.

This is how I hope we do price discovery for DVS. We just need julian1 and/or monsterer to set up GATEBTC for DevShares.

Also, I would love it if we could have a BitShares Standard Gateway for ECDSA coins to further reduce the counterparty risk.

It's an interesting idea. One thing that's kept me from developing the btcgateway/xchain.info further is that I don't want to be the counterparty responsible for holding people's Bitcoin and Litecoin etc. And that applies irrespective of the fact that I believe I have a good sys-admin background to properly lock down servers.

The null-street marketers keep saying we need to tap Bitcoin evangelism for our common interest  with a shared-wallet. Another viable approach would be to have multi-sig/shamir's secret backed redeemable BTC/LTC 'upgrade' assets on our own fast blockchain. Bitshares can then be pitched as a Bitcoin 'side-chain' for the marketing network-effect.

Quote
Gateway assets make this much easier. In fact, maybe we should just skip GATEBTC and go for a GATEBITUSD UIA on DevShares backed by BitUSD locked on the BitShares blockchain by the counterparty.

I could do this.

Would there be interest in delegate sponsorship for something like this? I'm currently paying rent on multiple servers, and have already sunk about two months of development labor into GATEBTC (Still trying to make up the overtime/leave on my day job). I'm prepared to open-source, and can dramatically streamline the user-experience in terms of eliminating the need to expose private-keys.

 

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