Poll

Should we Consider 4c and work to achieve it?

Yes, Defnitely...
16 (64%)
Yes...kind of interested
4 (16%)
Neutral
2 (8%)
No...not really interested
1 (4%)
No...Definitely not...
2 (8%)

Total Members Voted: 22

Author [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] Topic: Do you want stake in DPoS altChains?  (Read 714 times)

Offline fuzzy

Do you want stake in DPoS altChains?
« on: February 15, 2015, 08:51:52 PM »

I have been thinking about this for a Long time now.  In fact, Beyond Bitcoin was the beginning of this thought process and that started over a year ago!  But as we continue to see projects like Masternodes prove to us just how correct Dan Larimer was in his understanding of the economics of flawed POW systems, we are going to begin seeing more and more projects move in our direction.

There are a few scenarios I see potentially playing out here  (in order from worst to best case--from a BitShares' Investors' reasonable vantage point):
1)  Some "better" system arises:  meaning it is backed by current entrenched interests and their trillions in stolen cash (gaining 100% traction on every news and media outlet, adoption by all large industries...etc), or a system that is truly more empowering than DPoS (in my mind--highly unlikely). 
2) Masternodes will begin spreading through all POW chains, further centralizing the control of the infrastructure away from small holders (because small holders will not be able to combine forces to kick out a masternode).
3) Altchains recognize this and begin cloning DPoS.
 
So with this said, our community should start considering how we need to move forward in any of these given situations.  All the above situations are already potentially in play as we speak and we would never know unless we somehow had a hand in it.  It is from that vantage point that I reach out to the community.  I hope that we can try to keep emotions at a minimum and look at it as objectively as possible because in the end we are going to have to find a balance between compensation for our community's vision and sacrifice while also working to keep the world's power structures truly decentralized and in the hands of all people.

Let's start:

Threat Cases (From worst to Best from a BitShares' Investors' Long Term Benefit: 
1)  Some system backed by Goldman Sachs or other huge entrenched interests with unlimited dark funding become acceptable alternatives (sold as legitimate), allying with the current system's players---who care more about short term profits and control over others than Freedom and Liberty, the ultimate reason for DPoS' and TITAN's construction. 
    1a)  Some better system arises for this purpose (again---very unlikely and thus not following the "worst to best" order).
2)  Masternodes become an acceptable alternative to DPoS; DAC UN-Savvy investors think of short term profits only and nothing of the dangers of such a system in the long-term.  ASIC Manufacturers and controllers of chipset construction gain control of currency creation and always have an edge on those without such power.
3)  Altchains recognize the dangers of the prior two situations (absent the unlikely scenario 1a playing out) and decide to switch to DPoS.
    3a)  They see the sacrifices of many of the community members and offer them a large sum of their shares to pull them away from the BitShares community in an attempt to steal away the BitShares founders (also potentially fracturing the community and setting BitShares itself back)
   3b)   They choose not to sharedrop on us because they see no reason to, hoping their own communities and networks will prove superior to BitShares'
   3c)   They Sharedrop on all holders in hopes of converting a target demographic from the original BitShares Chain
   4c) They Sharedrop on all holders because we have assets they want to use in order to establish further legitimacy in the realm of cryptocurrency, piggy-backing (and indirectly contributing to) the valuable foundation BitShares and its community has created.   

What assets currently currently form our foundation:
-  A development team that fully understands DPoS and how to move forward with it---Led by the man who actually Engineered it
-  faddat, his code guru and the open source hardware platform customizable for bitshares DACs that sharedrop on us (and on DAWN)
-  A core community that has a deep understanding of the possiblities of DACs and DPoS
-  A core community of IT experts capable of forking bitshares, building infrastructure and running delegates at short notice
-  Beyond Bitcoin Hangouts/Conferences that turns the current Bitcointalk [ANN] model on its head
-  Max Wright and BitSharesTV
-  A community of Marketers who are working hard and sacrificing together to see marketing efforts through


My initial proposal?
We have less than 6 weeks until one of our biggest competitors launches.  I Propose we get consensus from all our assets to move forward to ensure 4c DPoS becomes the Crypto Gold Standard.  More to come on my ideas regarding how we do this, but I want to leave it at this to see our community's thoughts and to start the discussion.  So let's begin!


 
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 06:37:41 PM by fuzzy »
BROWNIE==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits Welcome to  the Sharing Economy w/ BeyondBitcoin.org Partners--ShareBits.io & OpenLedger.info
TIP FORMAT: #sharebits "ForumHandleInQuotes" Quanity Token_Name

Offline fuzzy

Re: Do you want stake in DPoS altChains?
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2015, 01:12:15 AM »
Noone agrees or disagrees?

Im looking for conversation--not affirmation.  :)
BROWNIE==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits Welcome to  the Sharing Economy w/ BeyondBitcoin.org Partners--ShareBits.io & OpenLedger.info
TIP FORMAT: #sharebits "ForumHandleInQuotes" Quanity Token_Name

Offline BunkerChain Labs

Re: Do you want stake in DPoS altChains?
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2015, 01:33:13 AM »
What are the cost to benefit ratios?

There are a lot of scenarios and assumptions but no cost factoring into each option. That ultimately is going to have a rather large impact on how any of those scenarios may or may not happen.

How much do each of those scenarios cost and who pays the tab on it?
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
www.Peerplays.com | World's First Decentralized Tournament Platform Built Entirely on the Blockchain!
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Offline BunkerChain Labs

Re: Do you want stake in DPoS altChains?
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2015, 01:52:57 AM »
Also regarding the poll.. it's kinda fuzzy exactly what is being voted on. Pun intended  ;D

Maybe someone smarter than I can clarify.
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
www.Peerplays.com | World's First Decentralized Tournament Platform Built Entirely on the Blockchain!
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Offline fuzzy

Re: Do you want stake in DPoS altChains?
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2015, 05:30:42 PM »
Also regarding the poll.. it's kinda fuzzy exactly what is being voted on. Pun intended  ;D

Maybe someone smarter than I can clarify.
has nothing to do with being smarter than you! What I'm asking is if our community should start considering the utilization of our assets to incentivize altchains to exist and sharedrop on us before they start doing it on their own without sharedropping.

:)
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 06:29:10 PM by fuzzy »
BROWNIE==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits Welcome to  the Sharing Economy w/ BeyondBitcoin.org Partners--ShareBits.io & OpenLedger.info
TIP FORMAT: #sharebits "ForumHandleInQuotes" Quanity Token_Name

Offline klosure

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 112
    • View Profile
Re: Do you want stake in DPoS altChains?
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2015, 05:43:15 PM »
Also regarding the poll.. it's kinda fuzzy exactly what is being voted on. Pun intended  ;D

Maybe someone smarter than I can clarify.
has nothing to do with being smarter than you! What I'm asking is if our community should start considering the utilization of our assets to incentive at chains to exist and sharedrop on us before they start doing it on their own without sharedropping.
You see you can make it in one sentence :).
My answer is yes. If we were not keen on encouraging other DACs (even competing ones) to copy our technology, the whole concept of the DAC toolkit and social consensus would make no sense.

edit: typo
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 05:54:05 PM by klosure »

Offline BunkerChain Labs

Re: Do you want stake in DPoS altChains?
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2015, 05:52:33 PM »
Also regarding the poll.. it's kinda fuzzy exactly what is being voted on. Pun intended  ;D

Maybe someone smarter than I can clarify.
has nothing to do with being smarter than you! What I'm asking is if our community should start considering the utilization of our assets to incentive at chains to exist and sharedrop on us before they start doing it on their own without sharedropping.

:)

Ok then.. I guess to aswer that question it really depends on the cost to benefit ratio as I asked about before. There is a real expense attached to everything, and I couldn't make an informed decision without understanding that element to determine just how much value is being brought by that particular line of action. It might reveal another way to be more efficient.. like the targets email list so to speak that arhag mentioned in another thread the other day where we reward those with a real interest instead of creating a giant pump and dump event with a whole chain sharedrop.

By doing that the cost of it all goes towards people who have a real interest and will more likely hold than dump.. and it is equally showing a good faith move.

This suggestion was not in your options though... so I couldn't vote on it. :)
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
www.Peerplays.com | World's First Decentralized Tournament Platform Built Entirely on the Blockchain!
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Offline donkeypong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2331
    • View Profile
Re: Do you want stake in DPoS altChains?
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2015, 05:58:19 PM »
Yes, Fuzz, I agree. 4c is essential. I think we should try to get consensus on this going forward.

Offline fuzzy

Re: Do you want stake in DPoS altChains?
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2015, 06:35:21 PM »
thanks everyone.  lets keep this alive.  I want to figure out what the community thinks. 

Also, as for this smartypants:
You see you can make it in one sentence :).
My answer is yes. If we were not keen on encouraging other DACs (even competing ones) to copy our technology, the whole concept of the DAC toolkit and social consensus would make no sense.
edit: typo

I had to provide context before asking :)
BROWNIE==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits Welcome to  the Sharing Economy w/ BeyondBitcoin.org Partners--ShareBits.io & OpenLedger.info
TIP FORMAT: #sharebits "ForumHandleInQuotes" Quanity Token_Name

Offline xiahui135

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 496
    • View Profile
Re: Do you want stake in DPoS altChains?
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2015, 01:00:11 AM »
It is hard to finish a sharedrop because all the coin is dividend for other alt coins.
Way of Ethereum may be considered. All alts using our tool kit must spend some bts to continue work.

Offline fuzzy

Re: Do you want stake in DPoS altChains?
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2015, 03:08:20 AM »
It is hard to finish a sharedrop because all the coin is dividend for other alt coins.
Way of Ethereum may be considered. All alts using our tool kit must spend some bts to continue work.

 One problem: does this further centralize?

I believe it does.   I would prefer to have an alliance of DACs that are drop on us so we have many bitshares "nations" instead of one single nation that forces compliance.   

Can't we find a way to incentivize alliances between chains with similar-but-different philosophies?
BROWNIE==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits Welcome to  the Sharing Economy w/ BeyondBitcoin.org Partners--ShareBits.io & OpenLedger.info
TIP FORMAT: #sharebits "ForumHandleInQuotes" Quanity Token_Name

Offline VoR0220

Re: Do you want stake in DPoS altChains?
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2015, 09:42:37 PM »
I think it's very possible to find alliances with coins of different philosophies. Market what you can do best and find a synthesis between our product and theirs and what they do best.
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline fuzzy

Re: Do you want stake in DPoS altChains?
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2015, 10:20:23 PM »
I think it's very possible to find alliances with coins of different philosophies. Market what you can do best and find a synthesis between our product and theirs and what they do best.
I agree. The idea of sharedropping simply works as a mechanism for the identification of people who are unwavering believers in technology that most the world barely understands. 
It is also a way to thank those people and enrich those who have the best chance of seeing the technology used for the reasons for which it was originally intended.

I have much more to say about this topic. ..but don't have time right now ;)
BROWNIE==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits Welcome to  the Sharing Economy w/ BeyondBitcoin.org Partners--ShareBits.io & OpenLedger.info
TIP FORMAT: #sharebits "ForumHandleInQuotes" Quanity Token_Name

Offline hadrian

Re: Do you want stake in DPoS altChains?
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2015, 09:14:55 PM »
Here we go Fuzzy, I have a question which will reveal my ignorance!
I have a general idea, but can you clarify for me what exactly is meant by 4c?

Quote
Should we Consider 4c and work to achieve it?

I think it's the 4 c's of marketing?
  • Clients
  • Costs
  • Communications
  • Convenience

There seem to be variations on a theme, but do I have the jist here?
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline fuzzy

Re: Do you want stake in DPoS altChains?
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2015, 05:08:30 PM »
Here we go Fuzzy, I have a question which will reveal my ignorance!
I have a general idea, but can you clarify for me what exactly is meant by 4c?

Quote
Should we Consider 4c and work to achieve it?

I think it's the 4 c's of marketing?
  • Clients
  • Costs
  • Communications
  • Convenience

There seem to be variations on a theme, but do I have the jist here?

4c) They Sharedrop on all holders because we have assets they want to use in order to establish further legitimacy in the realm of cryptocurrency, piggy-backing (and indirectly contributing to) the valuable foundation BitShares and its community has created.  
BROWNIE==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits Welcome to  the Sharing Economy w/ BeyondBitcoin.org Partners--ShareBits.io & OpenLedger.info
TIP FORMAT: #sharebits "ForumHandleInQuotes" Quanity Token_Name

 

Google+