Author [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] Topic: The service we can provide to the bitcoin community  (Read 402 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3507
    • View Profile
  • BTS: Ander
The service we can provide to the bitcoin community
« on: March 06, 2015, 06:38:33 PM »

In rgcyrpto's blog, he states that the most effective way for us to promote bitshares is to provide useful services to people.  This makes an enormous amount of sense.

Given that the community most likely to be early adopters of bitshares is the bitcoin community, and this should be our early target.  So the question is: what service can bitshares provide to them?


Consider the mindset of a typical bitcoiner, what do they want?
* They want real bitcoins, where they have access to their own keys.   This is critical.  They dont want goxBTCs, IOUs from an exchange that they cannot verify is not running a fractional reserve, etc. 
* They want to be able to trade between bitcoins and fiat safely, without risk of the exchange thy use being hacked. 
* They dont want competitor altcoins which attempt to be the ultimate currency to succeed and replace bitcoin.  But altcoins which are perceived as working with bitcoin, not competing: other applications of blockchain technology which support bitcoin are given a pass.


How can Bitshares position itself to be successful in the bitcoin community, given these things? 
The answer is of course the Decentralized Exchange, but with an important twist.


I said before that bitcoiners want REAL BTC.  That is, they want to control their own keys to bitcoins, and be able to verify that they do not have IOUs in a system which is actually running a fractional reserve (such as MtGox ran for years after they were first hacked).


The bitcoin community would love a true decentralized exchange that they do not have to trust.  The problem is that we do not yet fulfill all of their needs.  When someone uses the bitshares decentralized exchange, they can get exposure to the price of bitcoin via bitBTC, but they cannot buy actual BTC that they are given actual private keys to, and this is what the bitcoiners really want.  They want to both have private keys, and be able to trade into fiat.


The bitshares decentralized exchange can provide the trade into fiat part fairly easily.  The crypto community is not attached to real USD or CNY or whatever, and bitUSD/bitCNY/etc are perfectly fine as a replacement, if there is sufficient liquidity and market making such that someone can provide an instant conversion service at close to no spread (like what btc38 is doing, allowing deposits of bitCNY as if they were real CNY). 


The trickiest part of this is: How can we provide people with the actual private keys to real bitcoins, if they buy on the bitshares decentralized exchange?  Is this achievable?   Could it be done either now, or with the development of a new feature?   I remember that the devs worked on a feature to allow people to send bitcoin to a bitshares address.   This could be part of the puzzle.

Is there a way for a bitcoin private key to be securely stored within the bitshares blockchain?  Such that it could be traded among people for bitUSD, and then accessed with one's bitshares private key, allowing someone to take control of their bitcoin that they buy on an exchange?


This could be the first highly profitable DAC.  Bitfinex, Okcoin, Huobi etc are all very profitable. 
Imagine if Bitshares itself could become like them, allowing people to trade real BTC, and capture a piece of this market.

The Bitshares DAC could take a small percent of every trade, in the form of either BTC and/or bitUSD.  It could undercut the other exchanges in terms of fees while providing decentralization.

It could take the profits gained through these trades and distribute them among all BTS holders as dividends, becoming the first truly profitable DAC.  Either by dividing the actual BTC among holders, or by taking the bitUSD received as fees, converting to BTS, and burning the shares, causing the others to be more valuable.

The BTS market cap would need to grow to support the higher volume of bitUSD/bitCNY etc that is being used to trade the BTC.  The BTS value would be supported by real profits paid to holders.



I do not know if this is possible, now or later, or what it would take to achieve it.  I dont have the means to realize this, but the community as a whole might, so I present this to you as an idea.  Is this possible?  Is this something we should be working towards, either now or in the future after more features are developed?

Thanks for reading!

TL;DR: We need to become an exchange like huobi/bitfinex/etc, have people trade real BTC on the bitshares blockchain, give them access to the real bitcoin private keys, securely on the blockchain in some way, and provide a safe decentralized exchange for real BTC.  Profits generated from trading would be paid to BTS holders.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 06:43:28 PM by Ander »
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline btswildpig

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1423
    • View Profile
Re: The service we can provide to the bitcoin community
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2015, 06:40:05 PM »
I hear people tend to say "long story short" and follow with a short story to increase the reading rate ...... just a thought .. :P
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline Ander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3507
    • View Profile
  • BTS: Ander
Re: The service we can provide to the bitcoin community
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2015, 06:43:42 PM »
I hear people tend to say "long story short" and follow with a short story to increase the reading rate ...... just a thought .. :P

Okay I added a TL;DR. :)
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline Akado

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2760
    • View Profile
  • BTS: akado
Re: The service we can provide to the bitcoin community
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2015, 07:04:26 PM »
Actually, while we can't sort this atomic transactions problem, why don't we do the opposite? And all the bitcoiners will join us.

We currently have BitShares Exchange on the BitShares Blockchain, with a bitBTC asset. Why not do a BitShares Exchange on the Bitcoin Blockchain with the bitBTS asset? I think this makes complete sense because now we are providing a real service to the bitcoin community and we can still trade bitBTS for BTS on gateways.

The situation would change. BitShares' users would have the ''work load'' on their part, meaning if they wanted a real BitShare instead of a bitBTS on the bitcoin blockchain, they would have to trade it via gateway/bridges, however, this would be much more advantageous.

Sure, they probably wouldn't have TITAN and 10s confirmations, but that doesn't matter to a bitcoin holder, all that matters is keeping them safe and being able to trade them for more stable assets llike gold and silver. It can be confusing but if things get done right and organized, it might just work out.

We've all been seeing the picture upside all the entire time. Just a suggestion though, because I don't know the amount of work needed for that to succeed. Not to mention our own client isn't even finished. But it could be the next project or being built in paralel.
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline speedy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1160
    • View Profile
  • BTS: speedy
Re: The service we can provide to the bitcoin community
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2015, 07:23:28 PM »
The trickiest part of this is: How can we provide people with the actual private keys to real bitcoins, if they buy on the bitshares decentralized exchange?  Is this achievable?   

We cant, its not possible. No blockchain can control the keys to another.

Our challenge is to convince people that actually what they care about is the price exposure and ability to trade Bitcoin that BitBTC gives. We could do this if we had massive liquidity in the BitBTC:BitUSD market, and if wallet.bitshares.org was browseable without creating an account. Then anytime someone wants to find out if bitshares is really the best exchange, you could just post a link to that market.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 07:26:29 PM by speedy »

Offline xiahui135

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 496
    • View Profile
Re: The service we can provide to the bitcoin community
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2015, 01:36:48 AM »

The trickiest part of this is: How can we provide people with the actual private keys to real bitcoins, if they buy on the bitshares decentralized exchange?  Is this achievable?   

We cant, its not possible. No blockchain can control the keys to another.

Our challenge is to convince people that actually what they care about is the price exposure and ability to trade Bitcoin that BitBTC gives. We could do this if we had massive liquidity in the BitBTC:BitUSD market, and if wallet.bitshares.org was browseable without creating an account. Then anytime someone wants to find out if bitshares is really the best exchange, you could just post a link to that market.
Bitshares and Bitcoin can share the same private key.
The system need to transform btc to bitbtc to sell btc, and transform bitbtc to btc automatically after buying btc.

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12242
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BTS: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
Re: The service we can provide to the bitcoin community
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2015, 12:51:30 PM »
you can share the same private keys (as mentioned by xiahui135) for BTS and BTC ..
you can also implement a SPV bitcoinwallet as part of a BTS wallet .. like a multichain wallet
what you can NOT do without counterparty risk is: trade BTC against bitBTC .. that's what we have metaexchange for ..

given that risk it is trivial* to implement a wallet that connects to and interacts with the BTS and BTC blockchain and have a simple button that let's you trade bitBTC to BTC almost instantly and seamlessly via metaexchange ..

we just need someone to build that wallet!
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu powered by ChainSquad GmbH

Offline Akado

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2760
    • View Profile
  • BTS: akado
Re: The service we can provide to the bitcoin community
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2015, 02:24:48 PM »
you can share the same private keys (as mentioned by xiahui135) for BTS and BTC ..
you can also implement a SPV bitcoinwallet as part of a BTS wallet .. like a multichain wallet
what you can NOT do without counterparty risk is: trade BTC against bitBTC .. that's what we have metaexchange for ..

given that risk it is trivial* to implement a wallet that connects to and interacts with the BTS and BTC blockchain and have a simple button that let's you trade bitBTC to BTC almost instantly and seamlessly via metaexchange ..

we just need someone to build that wallet!

 +5%
I wish i had the skills

But I think we still need to have a smooth client first. After that, however, that should be the next step!
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline betax

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 808
    • View Profile
Re: The service we can provide to the bitcoin community
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2015, 03:15:57 PM »
So the question is: what service can bitshares provide to them?

Consider the mindset of a typical bitcoiner, what do they want?
* They want real bitcoins, where they have access to their own keys.   This is critical.  They dont want goxBTCs, IOUs from an exchange that they cannot verify is not running a fractional reserve, etc. 
* They want to be able to trade between bitcoins and fiat safely, without risk of the exchange thy use being hacked. 
* They dont want competitor altcoins which attempt to be the ultimate currency to succeed and replace bitcoin.  But altcoins which are perceived as working with bitcoin, not competing: other applications of blockchain technology which support bitcoin are given a pass.


TL;DR: We need to become an exchange like huobi/bitfinex/etc, have people trade real BTC on the bitshares blockchain, give them access to the real bitcoin private keys, securely on the blockchain in some way, and provide a safe decentralized exchange for real BTC.  Profits generated from trading would be paid to BTS holders.

 +5% We have a web wallet, a light wallet, a nearly finished v1, developers helping other DACs (which is good), a mobile wallet.

We need this! BTC, Ethereum and Doge. (PS I dont have any of them, all bitshares.. but is obvious that are the best ones and Ethereum has a huge momentum)
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

 

Google+