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Offline Overthetop


Bitshares is bleeding for a long time, should not we do something ?

IMO, we should think about end dilution and try to find another way out to get the funds.



« Last Edit: April 05, 2015, 05:05:01 AM by Overthetop »
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Offline Troglodactyl

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Re: Bitshares is bleeding for a long time, should not we do something ?
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2015, 05:13:01 AM »
The dilution rate is lower than that of Bitcoin, and can actually be focused toward more useful contributions than mining.  If the transition to dilution is a major factor in the market cap dropping, I think it's a result of the way the change was handled, not a response to the change itself.  Thus, reversing it could just scramble things even more.  If you want to get rid of dilution without further disrupting the system, I suggest running and voting for low or zero pay delegates.

Offline clayop

Re: Bitshares is bleeding for a long time, should not we do something ?
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2015, 05:16:15 AM »
If you want to get rid of dilution without further disrupting the system, I suggest running and voting for low or zero pay delegates.

Well said.  +5% +5% +5%
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Offline bytemaster

Re: Bitshares is bleeding for a long time, should not we do something ?
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2015, 05:20:02 AM »
The dilution rate is lower than that of Bitcoin, and can actually be focused toward more useful contributions than mining.  If the transition to dilution is a major factor in the market cap dropping, I think it's a result of the way the change was handled, not a response to the change itself.  Thus, reversing it could just scramble things even more.  If you want to get rid of dilution without further disrupting the system, I suggest running and voting for low or zero pay delegates.

+1   How it was handled scared people.   The network allows existing stake holders to control this and it could be ended at any time.   Fact of the matter is that more dilution would do more to help than hurt at this point.   Most of the developers have no need to SELL 100% of their BTS income but they should receive BTS worth a fair market value.    This would create little additional sell pressure (from devs) but would create much additional motivation for devs.   That said, any change would be harmful in the short term.   
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Offline Overthetop

Re: Bitshares is bleeding for a long time, should not we do something ?
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2015, 05:28:13 AM »
The dilution rate is lower than that of Bitcoin, and can actually be focused toward more useful contributions than mining.  If the transition to dilution is a major factor in the market cap dropping, I think it's a result of the way the change was handled, not a response to the change itself.  Thus, reversing it could just scramble things even more.  If you want to get rid of dilution without further disrupting the system, I suggest running and voting for low or zero pay delegates.

The ecosystem of BTC do not get delegate pay from the btc blockchain and we also can see the ecosystem is growing quickly.

At present ,the dilution solution is like one big stone binding with BTS ,and make it sinking.

What should we do? just watching and waiting for something big of surprise to change the whole situation ?

 
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Offline onceuponatime

Re: Bitshares is bleeding for a long time, should not we do something ?
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2015, 05:37:09 AM »
The dilution rate is lower than that of Bitcoin, and can actually be focused toward more useful contributions than mining.  If the transition to dilution is a major factor in the market cap dropping, I think it's a result of the way the change was handled, not a response to the change itself.  Thus, reversing it could just scramble things even more.  If you want to get rid of dilution without further disrupting the system, I suggest running and voting for low or zero pay delegates.

The ecosystem of BTC do not get delegate pay from the btc blockchain and we also can see the ecosystem is growing quickly.

At present ,the dilution solution is like one big stone binding with BTS ,and make it sinking.

What should we do? just watching and waiting for something big of surprise to change the whole situation ?

Did you own bitcoin when it went from $30 down to less than $2?  I did. But I didn't sell. I bought.  Later, I did sell (for over $800 per BTC) and put it all into AGS.

I believe that I made the right choices.

Offline Shentist

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Re: Bitshares is bleeding for a long time, should not we do something ?
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2015, 05:41:42 AM »
The dilution rate is lower than that of Bitcoin, and can actually be focused toward more useful contributions than mining.  If the transition to dilution is a major factor in the market cap dropping, I think it's a result of the way the change was handled, not a response to the change itself.  Thus, reversing it could just scramble things even more.  If you want to get rid of dilution without further disrupting the system, I suggest running and voting for low or zero pay delegates.

The ecosystem of BTC do not get delegate pay from the btc blockchain and we also can see the ecosystem is growing quickly.

At present ,the dilution solution is like one big stone binding with BTS ,and make it sinking.

What should we do? just watching and waiting for something big of surprise to change the whole situation ?

so why do you think dilution is the reason of the falling price? if you calculate the created BTS it is irrelevant.

We can find multiple reasons why we are "bleeding"

1. Crypto is in a Bearmarket - so not only BitShares is losing market value
2. Many promises in the past were hot air (remember Brian Page and Bytemaster saying that On-Off-Ramps are really close?)
3. Absent of any "official" in this forum - as their conclusing they are causing this bleeding
4. For outsiders it looks like - not much happens here in BitShares, because no place organise this stuff

you can easily add more reasons.....

but the question should be "what did i do to change something?"

1. Did i spoke to someone over BitShares?
2. Did i traded internally?
3. Did i write something on the forum and be a active member of the community

etc.

the problem with "dilution" is, that anyone is thinking, that now we have X 100% paid delegates. They will do all the work and i have just to sit and watch. WRONG!!!!

Offline btswildpig

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Re: Bitshares is bleeding for a long time, should not we do something ?
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2015, 05:52:54 AM »
Before the massive adoption , the shortage of BitCNY already begun .
Now www.tradebts.com is charging additional fees for buying BitCNY as a temporary solution .
Many people who want to buy BitCNY to cover their shorts still worrying ...
Also business who is looking to adopt BitCNY would be stuck at the bottleneck .

Looks like we have demand for our major product , and the supply is not enough ....

But also because of the low price and may be some endopathic mechanism, people don't have big incentive to produce more BitCNY  .....

This issue need to be address more than dilution at this point .
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Offline Overthetop

Re: Bitshares is bleeding for a long time, should not we do something ?
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2015, 06:00:43 AM »
As an investor , personally I would hold my bts as long as the BTS is growing.

My opinion about End Dilution is some kind of discussion about how to make the situation get improved.

Could it possible that we find some VC and make certain portion of directional add-issuance like 10% to them? 

So, we could not only stop continuous and scattered  dilution to the market but also get the funds from VC.

 
« Last Edit: April 05, 2015, 10:12:10 AM by Overthetop »
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Offline mdj

Re: Bitshares is bleeding for a long time, should not we do something ?
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2015, 06:14:01 AM »
Did you own bitcoin when it went from $30 down to less than $2?  I did. But I didn't sell. I bought.  Later, I did sell (for over $800 per BTC) and put it all into AGS.

I believe that I made the right choices.

 +5% I bought Bitcoin in 2011 at $20 and also held for the entirety of that bear market. I haven't gone 100% BTS but certainly have the same good feeling I had about Bitcoin back then.

Offline clayop

Re: Bitshares is bleeding for a long time, should not we do something ?
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2015, 06:40:09 AM »
Did you own bitcoin when it went from $30 down to less than $2?  I did. But I didn't sell. I bought.  Later, I did sell (for over $800 per BTC) and put it all into AGS.

I believe that I made the right choices.

 +5% I bought Bitcoin in 2011 at $20 and also held for the entirety of that bear market. I haven't gone 100% BTS but certainly have the same good feeling I had about Bitcoin back then.

We will say "I bought BTS under $0.01 and never sold in bear market" when BTS is at $1 8)
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Offline xeroc

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Re: Bitshares is bleeding for a long time, should not we do something ?
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2015, 07:21:37 AM »
The dilution rate is lower than that of Bitcoin, and can actually be focused toward more useful contributions than mining.  If the transition to dilution is a major factor in the market cap dropping, I think it's a result of the way the change was handled, not a response to the change itself.  Thus, reversing it could just scramble things even more.  If you want to get rid of dilution without further disrupting the system, I suggest running and voting for low or zero pay delegates.

The ecosystem of BTC do not get delegate pay from the btc blockchain and we also can see the ecosystem is growing quickly.

At present ,the dilution solution is like one big stone binding with BTS ,and make it sinking.

What should we do? just watching and waiting for something big of surprise to change the whole situation ?

so why do you think dilution is the reason of the falling price? if you calculate the created BTS it is irrelevant.

We can find multiple reasons why we are "bleeding"

1. Crypto is in a Bearmarket - so not only BitShares is losing market value
2. Many promises in the past were hot air (remember Brian Page and Bytemaster saying that On-Off-Ramps are really close?)
3. Absent of any "official" in this forum - as their conclusing they are causing this bleeding
4. For outsiders it looks like - not much happens here in BitShares, because no place organise this stuff

you can easily add more reasons.....

but the question should be "what did i do to change something?"

1. Did i spoke to someone over BitShares?
2. Did i traded internally?
3. Did i write something on the forum and be a active member of the community

etc.

the problem with "dilution" is, that anyone is thinking, that now we have X 100% paid delegates. They will do all the work and i have just to sit and watch. WRONG!!!!
Well said ...
but in contrast to btc .. where people HAVE to volumteer we can give people something back to them ..
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Offline mike623317

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Re: Bitshares is bleeding for a long time, should not we do something ?
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2015, 07:45:20 AM »
I have to believe that eventually things will turn around, especially if we keep innovating and getting better. The market should gravitate to the best solution. As long as BM and the devs  keep innovating we win.
My 2 cents.

Offline jckj

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Re: Bitshares is bleeding for a long time, should not we do something ?
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2015, 08:55:21 AM »
Bts lacke some killer apps. Btser hold bts beceause they like bts to have something unsual btter than btc. But bts has lost these for the last year,  and whole decision hurt the btser belives. Will these will be changed for bter dirctions will decid the whole bts's living or death.

Offline inarizushi

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Re: Bitshares is bleeding for a long time, should not we do something ?
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2015, 10:03:02 AM »
What's sad is that the marketing department is dead again (at the exception of Max)... we have to find new users
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