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Offline speedy

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Dilution / sharedrop discussion
« on: April 08, 2015, 07:28:23 AM »

Due to how low the share price has gotten, there's been speculation recently that core developers who arent being paid a living wage are getting desperate.

One idea that was thrown around recently was to get VC money. I remember in one of the mumbles BM said "Real companies go through repeated rounds of funding". If this or something similar were to happen, who thinks that we could see another sharedrop to bring the total to 3 billion?

On a side-question, is VC money even possible for a non-legal entity? Would they want to wait for profitability first?

I dont expect anyone from the team to answer these questions, its purely one of those "lets try and speculate what happens next" threads. It affects whether Ill double down now or wait for a bit.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2015, 10:13:40 AM by speedy »

Offline davidpbrown

Re: More dilution / sharedrops on the way?
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2015, 07:45:16 AM »
I'm less interested in money, so really don't know the options but surely one route that new investors could take is buying BTS?.. or perhaps what happens is buying off market from devs and whales??.. Dilution would be a rick unless coupled with a big positive from new backing that would see BitShares bloom.
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Offline btswildpig

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Re: More dilution / sharedrops on the way?
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2015, 07:53:14 AM »
This thread may lead people into believing someone want to dilute more by vague sentence taken from a dialog without context .
I know what I'm gonna do if I'm a FUD spreader who saw your title   :'( :'(

you should ask if this is possible without specifically put out a sentence from a dialog , it makes people think this maybe a real plan .
also the title is horrible ...

Also , if this is possible , then it would become a legal issue . Issuing new shares is doable , but issuing new shares and sell to someone and take their fiat money ...sounds like a security to me , subject to SEC regulation .
« Last Edit: April 08, 2015, 08:06:01 AM by btswildpig »
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Offline speedy

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Re: More dilution / sharedrops on the way?
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2015, 08:11:19 AM »
In hindsight yes this thread's title is horrible. At this price isnt everyone who is still hear a true believer anyway?

But when I heard that statement about multiple rounds of funding in the mumble it was made to sound so normal that it might have been the plan all along. Not that Im complaining it just taught me that I need to think more strategically about when to buy BTS, because everything is open to change.

Yes it would be better overall for a big investor to just buy existing BTS, assuming they are satisfied at getting it at market rate.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2015, 08:12:53 AM by speedy »

Offline btswildpig

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Re: More dilution / sharedrops on the way?
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2015, 08:14:39 AM »
In hindsight yes this thread's title is horrible. At this price isnt everyone who is still hear a true believer anyway?

But when I heard that statement about multiple rounds of funding in the mumble it was made to sound so normal that it might have been the plan all along. Not that Im complaining it just taught me that I need to think more strategically about when to buy BTS, because everything is open to change.

Yes it would be better overall for a big investor to just buy existing BTS, assuming they are satisfied at getting it at market rate.

I think that dialog was talking about delegate income , = capital infusion = dynamic rounds of funding by the votes of the shareholders .
Not something new .
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline btswildpig

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Re: More dilution / sharedrops on the way?
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2015, 08:17:35 AM »
It's not possible to create shares and sell it to specific private investors without some kind of regulation .
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline luckybit

Re: More dilution / sharedrops on the way?
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2015, 09:35:46 AM »
Due to how low the share price has gotten, there's been speculation recently that core developers who arent being paid a living wage are getting desperate.

One idea that was thrown around recently was to get VC money. I remember in one of the mumbles BM said "Real companies go through repeated rounds of funding". If this or something similar were to happen, who thinks that we could see another sharedrop to bring the total to 3 billion?

If they do that then everyone will sell BTS and buy BTC, Ethereum, NXT or any of the competitors who aren't doing that.

At this point developers need to focus on adding value and not on getting rich. It requires sacrifice from everyone to make a startup into a success.
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Offline luckybit

Re: More dilution / sharedrops on the way?
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2015, 09:40:32 AM »
In hindsight yes this thread's title is horrible. At this price isnt everyone who is still hear a true believer anyway?

But when I heard that statement about multiple rounds of funding in the mumble it was made to sound so normal that it might have been the plan all along. Not that Im complaining it just taught me that I need to think more strategically about when to buy BTS, because everything is open to change.

Yes it would be better overall for a big investor to just buy existing BTS, assuming they are satisfied at getting it at market rate.

I don't think the market can bear any more dilution. It's not a good time for it, and it's not profitable enough that any VC would do that. I could see if there were some great new features just released or in the roadmap about to be release but in this case dilution already exists and we know the current market cap is mainly the result of that decision.

Of course multiple rounds of dilution is good for all but the true believers. I guess that means it's time to start buying BitUSD and expect multiple rounds of dilution? Then again will BitUSD even hold to the peg with such low liquidity? Expect a market cap of $6 million or possibly less if they go ahead with this at this time.

« Last Edit: April 08, 2015, 09:42:09 AM by luckybit »
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Offline Akado

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Re: More dilution / sharedrops on the way?
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2015, 09:44:42 AM »
I think before we start considering any of those measures we should wait for this round of development first (more stable eallet, bitsaphire, etc) so we can know how the market Will react first. One thing at the time.
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Offline speedy

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Re: More dilution / sharedrops on the way?
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2015, 09:54:05 AM »
Of course multiple rounds of dilution is good for all but the true believers. I guess that means it's time to start buying BitUSD and expect multiple rounds of dilution? Then again will BitUSD even hold to the peg with such low liquidity? Expect a market cap of $6 million or possibly less if they go ahead with this at this time.

Agreed - we cant sustain more large rounds.

At this point developers need to focus on adding value and not on getting rich. It requires sacrifice from everyone to make a startup into a success.

Yes but the developers are sacrificing their time, and we are sacrificing by accepting dilution, but hopefully not too much.

Offline luckybit

Re: More dilution / sharedrops on the way?
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2015, 09:54:50 AM »
How did we go from dividends to dilutions?

Add value to Bitshares. Increase revenues. End of discussion.
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Offline CLains

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Re: More dilution / sharedrops on the way?
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2015, 09:55:35 AM »
The idea seems to be development, consulting and integration for projects using BitShares - only dilution for us as shareholders would be dev. time, but the time spent on such projects would help the broader BitShares ecosystem anyway. There are thousands of blockchain-based business ideas, but only a few know how to engineer and develop them.

Offline speedy

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Re: More dilution / sharedrops on the way?
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2015, 09:56:07 AM »
How did we go from dividends to dilutions?

Add value to Bitshares. Increase revenues. End of discussion.

Its the temporary startup phase hopefully.

Offline luckybit

Re: More dilution / sharedrops on the way?
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2015, 09:56:39 AM »
Of course multiple rounds of dilution is good for all but the true believers. I guess that means it's time to start buying BitUSD and expect multiple rounds of dilution? Then again will BitUSD even hold to the peg with such low liquidity? Expect a market cap of $6 million or possibly less if they go ahead with this at this time.

Agreed - we cant sustain more large rounds.

At this point developers need to focus on adding value and not on getting rich. It requires sacrifice from everyone to make a startup into a success.

Yes but the developers are sacrificing their time, and we are sacrificing by accepting dilution, but hopefully not too much.

And that is fair. They sacrifice their time in the hope that Bitshares can be a success. We sacrifice through dilution in the hope that Bitshares can be a success.

Shared sacrifice is fair. Some math genius should do the calculation to make sure there is a balance of sacrifice between developers and ordinary BTS holders. No techno-elitism.
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Offline luckybit

Re: More dilution / sharedrops on the way?
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2015, 09:58:54 AM »
The idea seems to be development, consulting and integration for projects using BitShares - only dilution for us as shareholders would be dev. time, but the time spent on such projects would help the broader BitShares ecosystem anyway. There are thousands of blockchain-based business ideas, but only a few know how to engineer and develop them.

How do you know any of these merged DACs would have been a success? The merger came too soon before we could even judge the success of the DACs independently. I'm not sure why that idea was chosen but I'm sure there was some strategic reason.

Anyway it didn't seem to pay off. Now there are more developers to feed off a single chain.
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