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Offline davidpbrown

CryptoStocks
« on: April 09, 2015, 09:09:37 AM »

I don't know, if you're aware of https://cryptostocks.com/securities as I see little talk of that anywhere and little almost no activity there now but back a few years, it was a nice idea to create shares in ventures that people could buy into. Note the biggest activity is in DVC.. developer coin which is ~null value.

Is BitShares well placed to do this better in small stocks?.. or are there more legal complexities with that than we want to handle?? Obviously there are bigger fish looking at whole stockmarkets too. I wonder surely there must be other small startups that want funding.. we see those on Omni/CounterParty but not talk of doing it within BitShares.

Perhaps the fail cryptostocks seem to experience, is from near alt-coin pump and dump on a hope and a prayer and less formal business cases made and too little exposure to be taken seriously?.. and yet I wonder if there was one place to look and critique new offering, that might draw a critical mass of investors that would also see the benefit of BitShares other assets.

I expect it won't float but thought I'd put it out there.
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Offline Akado

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Re: CryptoStocks
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2015, 09:29:23 AM »
Bitcoin indonésia was on cryptostocks trying to get some funds but now that they support bitshares, they might use our platform, that would be awesome but i think they're still searching for the better platform to achieve that. Im biased but i honestly think bitshares is the ideal platform to use for that
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Offline xeroc

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Re: CryptoStocks
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2015, 09:35:17 AM »
Bitcoin indonésia was on cryptostocks trying to get some funds but now that they support bitshares, they might use our platform, that would be awesome but i think they're still searching for the better platform to achieve that. Im biased but i honestly think bitshares is the ideal platform to use for that
... especially considering the new features for UIA that are currently tested in DevShares ..
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Offline davidpbrown

Re: CryptoStocks
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2015, 09:40:41 AM »
... Im biased but i honestly think bitshares is the ideal platform to use for that

Not ideal just yet, if it's not explictly made for that. BitShares is not made up to look like a showcase, that shouts out to innovators that this is the place to promote their IPO and advertise their ideas and business cases; or to investors that this is a place to look for putting their money beyond BitAssets that are commodities - fiat and gold etc - there's no real talk of the promotion of new stocks and IPOs outside of the BitShares owned DAC-like enterprises. Those that come from the BitShares community obviously are geared to do what we've seen with PeerTracks etc but those outside independent of BitShares would not think of it as a platform to do an IPO.. and perhaps they should/could.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 09:44:30 AM by davidpbrown »
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Offline Akado

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Re: CryptoStocks
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2015, 09:48:56 AM »
What? While i honestly think its not ready for use now, one of the things that sold me out was the fact a company could issue stocks here and we could trade them. Either im missing or confusing things, or i think you're wrong. Why shouldnt companies do crowdfundibg? DACx seems to aim at this and im pretty excited. Its basically what bitshares ME was supposed to do. Why dont you think having that feature is an advantage? Companies could even pay dividends to stock holders. I really dont get your point. Having a profitable and decentralised like nyse? Whats wrong with that? Unless of course, ive misunderstood something
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Offline davidpbrown

Re: CryptoStocks
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2015, 10:33:31 AM »
What?

English.. does BitShares speak it!?..
<rant>

This is the bit of BitShares that I find frustrating.. it doesn't sell itself at all well and yet PR/Marketing dominates the chatter.

Imagine you have a company ready to roll and you want to sell cryptostocks in that. You look at the options and assess them; you look at BitShares and you see.. well let's look at the obvious:

Simple way to speed read is consider only the first sentence in a paragraph..

BitShares/What is BitShares
Quote
BitShares is a technology supported by next generation entrepreneurs, investors, and developers with a common interest in finding free market solutions by leveraging the power of globally decentralized consensus and decision making. ...

Bitcoin is the first fully autonomous system to utilize distributed consensus technology to create a more efficient and reliable global payment network. ...

BitShares looks to extend the innovation of the blockchain to all industries that rely upon the internet to provide their services. ...

BitShares does for business what bitcoin did for money by utilizing distributed consensus technology to create companies that are inherently global, transparent, trustworthy, efficient and most importantly profitable.

BitShares has went through many changes and has done its best to stay on top of blockchain technology. zzzzz

Seems off target from what I'm wanting but I'm thorough so I'll also look at ELI5 since that's there:

GettingStarted/ELI5
Quote
Chapter 1: DEFINITIONS

Can it be possible to pay for your coffee in dollars with your phone but without any intermediary between you and the coffee shop?

We'll get to it but first a few definitions to avoid ambiguity:

    "Bitshares X" is a Decentralized Autonomous Company (DAC). Bitshares X being a DAC is not crucial here so if you are not familiar with the concept of DACs then for now you can think of it as a money payment business similar to PayPal or Visa.
....

Chapter 2: PRIMARY PURPOSE

The primary purpose of the Bitshares X system is the ability to generate bitUSD (and other similar assets like bitEUR, bitGold etc).

So how can bitUSD come into existence?
....
...
Chapter 3: STANDARD WAY
zzzz you've lost my attention.

NONE of that is in anyway selling the prospect of my selling a stake in a new company by selling stock.

The talk to an outside will appear as if the activity that is new ventures are internal to BitShares, something that BitShares is doing.. there is no invitation for new startups and no call to investors. That what I think PR/Marketing should be focused on.. the wiki isn't doing it's job if you are expecting that others will have the same opinion as  you that BitShares is ready to do CryptoStocks. Look at the wallet.. it's screaming bitUSD and other assets, it's not a list of [insert English easy read for DAC]/stocks.

Take a close look at the wiki and tell me it's selling the ideal well.. http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Main_Page

Why Choose BitShares
Quote
The inherent problems of Bitcoin and other Cryptocurrencies
...

That is not "Why Choose BitShares: Because you have a company that is inherently valuable and we have a method for you to easily engage investors." To read that into what is suggest, means you either have a vivid imagination or you are already within BitShares and understand its potential but we should not be expecting others to spend their time speculatively because more often than not tools are what they suggest themselves as being not what we will them to be. You can have the perfect product but if you cannot communicate that, then no-one will think to use it. How is this difficult!?

</rant>
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Offline xeroc

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Re: CryptoStocks
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2015, 10:52:25 AM »
@davidpbrown .. it's a wiki .. please improve it!
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Offline davidpbrown

Re: CryptoStocks
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2015, 11:11:49 AM »
@davidpbrown .. it's a wiki .. please improve it!

I'm not the PR/Marketing for BitShares.. I cannot speak for what the core devs consider the future of BitShares is. Those closer to them need to resolve that and make it clear and the grander narrative can draw on input from me and others but right now I wonder each individual has a perception of what BitShares is. I'm arguing the devil's advocate from the perspective of cryptostocks but perhaps BitShares is becoming all about bitUSD. I wonder that there is value in cryptostocks because it will bolster the potential for future adoption of assets.. it gets people in the door and interested in BitShares for another reason than what could be mistaken as an exotic alt currency.

BitShares needs to define itself. I've suggested in other threads that we need a Mission statement and a Vision statement exactly because I think we need a clearer focus and defined boundary to what BitShares is trying to achieve, in order that we don't waste energy off target.

If ["The primary purpose of the Bitshares X system is the ability to generate bitUSD"], then that is relatively clear but in the case that BitShares wants to be the platform those new business looks to in order to manage their IPO and engage investors, then that needs to be declared more obviously.

That's not a decision I can make.. I've no motivation to put my single perspective into the wiki, just to have it fixed by the next person. We need consensus and that needs to draw on a sense of what opportunity there is for growth. If there is a chance to engage new businesses, perhaps cryptostocks are worth promoting above bitUSD even. I wonder big uptake in bitUSD is something we expect in the future. Right now, new IPOs might help?.. but what potential is there for that??.. what 'DACs' have we seen that are not from the inside of BitShares???

I was invested in MasterCoin at the time they did MaidSafe.. that was their biggest achievement to date, although the Omni wallet is useful, that IPO got huge coverage.. principally because of MaidSafe but perhaps BitShares can get press on the back of companies that launch through BitShares IPO platform?

Regardless, I think the wiki structure and content needs an overhaul by someone who is PR/Marketing.. take a step back and restate what BitShares is and will be in the near future - from the perspective of those who might use it. That then would be a tool that would enable others to promote Bitshares. Fixing the wiki more useful than a trifold leaflet, which I still haven't read.

 8)
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Offline Akado

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Re: CryptoStocks
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2015, 04:48:44 PM »
"Imagine you have a company ready to roll and you want to sell cryptostocks in that."

Yeah, I can do that with BitShares, what's the problem? Are you telling me it's not the time for that because we need to get bitUSD rolling? If so, I agree with you, it might not be, though it wouldn't hurt. Liquidity is our priority I guess. Or are you telling me BitShares isn't "selling" that product? If so, I also agree, I havent seen much marketing regarding issuing stock for your own business and help it grow. But you can definitely do that

"NONE of that is in anyway selling the prospect of my selling a stake in a new company by selling stock.

The talk to an outside will appear as if the activity that is new ventures are internal to BitShares, something that BitShares is doing.. there is no invitation for new startups and no call to investors. That what I think PR/Marketing should be focused on.. "

From your original post I got the idea you didn't agree with the fact BitShares could be used for that. My bad i was rushing for class when i read that.

This is a point we should also focus on, it's so important. We could be the next nasdaq. I don't know if it's a good time at the moment, though we already have a working wallet (from what i read from the feedback thread). It might be a little buggy but it works now i guess, so maybe a thread could be done on bitcointalk? Under the Projects section. There isnt that much spam compared with the alt coin section. I guess I would start looking into doing it, though I would probably need some help from elder members, properly explaining how it works, im not the best person for that
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