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Offline tsaishen

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Need $10K bitUSD, will pay actual USD with 5% premium
« on: April 15, 2015, 04:41:00 PM »

We need to increase our bitUSD position by $10,000 as soon as possible.
All of our choices to do that, amount to paying a premium of ~10% right now.

I'd like to get that cost down if possible, so I'm running this thread as an experiment.

I think the markets can handle $2k right now no problem.

I say this because the total market cap of bitUSD is around $190,000 and $10k is about 5% of that.
Supply and demand curves project that if we try to move this through at market it will drive the price to nearly $2.00  But moving $2k would only push it another 5%.  This is called a bullwhip or a whale tail splash.  That wouldn't be so bad in and of itself, except that the sudden vacuum caused by pushing this much through all at once, might cause a collapse later if we aren't careful.

So to sum up, we will be making orders of about $2k directly through the open market, but the remaining $8k would very likely to push the market too far against us.

Sounds like we need a submarine to safely ride under any resultant the waves, this is my submarine.
 
For the next 24hrs, we will pay you a premium on your bitUSD of 5%.
This means if you send us $100 bitUSD you will get back $105 USD cash.

Send the bitUSD to users "payqwik" or "gemspace",  then update this thread and you will receive a PM, requesting settlement details that are necessary to complete the transaction.

I am more than willing to do escrow with any forum mod in the USA or Canada, blockchain is totally open so the bitUSD side is pretty easy to verify, however we will need to ensure funds release within 24hrs. 

Limits...
If you have a Bank of America personal account we can fund you immediately through direct account to account transfer for any amount up to $2000 USD.  That is the easiest and preferred method since it's simple, quick and painless.  If you have a business account or you bank anywhere other than Bank of America, then clearing will be via a standard bank wire. 

We can post an immediate wire for you but will only do so for amounts in excess of $1000 (the fee for an instant wire is $25, we will eat that fee). 

For amounts lower than $1000 it will be traditional wire and the full clearing time will depend on your bank.  The minimum wire size is $100, if you send less than $100 bitUSD we will just refund it directly unless you tell us before hand that it is part of a batch.

Now you may be asking "Why bitUSD and why now?".
The primary answer is that several days ago we went on a hiring spree https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,15689.0.html
We hired several people from within the community and agreed to pay them upfront for their first month's efforts in bitUSD.

We launch the first leg of our project on Friday and I need everyone in position, which means I need to get payment out to them as promised, all of which was in bitUSD.

I'm inviting all that were offered positions into this thread to confirm. ;)

Offline luckybit

Re: Need $10K bitUSD, will pay actual USD with 5% premium
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2015, 05:23:26 PM »
Confirmed and accepted with some conditions.

1) First you have to reveal the identity of yourself and your company to the community before I can accept anything. It could be risky for me to accept money from an unvetted source with limited history in the community.
2) You need a functioning website.
3) You need to offer proof that your company exists, is legally incorporated, etc.

If all of these steps are taken then I'll work with your company but only after these steps have been taken. I would like the community to vet you and the company you work for so that the community can trust your legitimacy. Other companies have done this process before so it's not too big of a deal.


« Last Edit: April 16, 2015, 06:43:58 AM by luckybit »
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Offline nomoreheroes7

Re: Need $10K bitUSD, will pay actual USD with 5% premium
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2015, 05:25:22 PM »
Exciting stuff. You may want to get this thread moved to general discussion for more activity though; I think the trading sub-forum has become more "speculation"-related than anything.

Offline tsaishen

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Re: Need $10K bitUSD, will pay actual USD with 5% premium
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2015, 05:50:55 PM »
+5% Confirmed and accepted.

He is one of 2 community liason's recently brought onto gemspaces.

Offline lil_jay890

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Re: Need $10K bitUSD, will pay actual USD with 5% premium
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2015, 06:05:02 PM »
I'm sure these guys are all BTS bulls.  Why not offer to pay them $100 worth of bts?  It would be much easier to aquire through BTER, BTC38, or Metaexchange and they could always use the internal exchange if they wanted to convert to bitUSD.

Offline Ander

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Re: Need $10K bitUSD, will pay actual USD with 5% premium
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2015, 06:20:12 PM »
I'm sure these guys are all BTS bulls.  Why not offer to pay them $100 worth of bts?

Because there seems to be a rule where every project which wants to help Bitshares must screw over the BTS price.  Moonstone?  Gotta sell BTS and raise $130k worth of BTC.

This?  Couldnt possibly just buy BTS with their money and use it to short themselves some bitUSD.  Nope, that might help the BTS price. 
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Offline vlight

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Re: Need $10K bitUSD, will pay actual USD with 5% premium
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2015, 06:39:33 PM »
Because there seems to be a rule where every project which wants to help Bitshares must screw over the BTS price.  Moonstone?  Gotta sell BTS and raise $130k worth of BTC.

This?  Couldnt possibly just buy BTS with their money and use it to short themselves some bitUSD.  Nope, that might help the BTS price.

Maybe they do not know they can

Offline tsaishen

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Re: Need $10K bitUSD, will pay actual USD with 5% premium
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2015, 06:52:19 PM »
I'm sure these guys are all BTS bulls.  Why not offer to pay them $100 worth of bts?

Because there seems to be a rule where every project which wants to help Bitshares must screw over the BTS price.  Moonstone?  Gotta sell BTS and raise $130k worth of BTC.

This?  Couldnt possibly just buy BTS with their money and use it to short themselves some bitUSD.  Nope, that might help the BTS price.

I'm sorry moonstone isn't holding BTS.  I can't speak for them, but if they're heavy into BTC they got slammed in the past few days and I don't know how you can continue on in a business with that much volatility.

BTS fluctuates in price, but 1 bitUSD is backed directly by BTS and yet it stays pegged to a dollar.  The dollar is what we agreed to pay our people in, this limits our forex exposure risk. bitUSD is a valid way of paying them their USD.  They can convert it to BTS if they want to and I highly recommend that they do, but that is their choice, not ours.

With what we are doing, we expect the BTS price to more than double in the coming months.
Go back to my original hello world post and see if I've ever said anything different, even from day one.

Believe me when I say that if we can't raise the actual bitUSD to do this, we will pay them in BTS directly if they agree to it, or failing that we will use our reserves to short some bitUSD into existence.  We could also just add them to payroll and do direct deposit, but we would like to get everyone paid before Friday.

Understand that we are trying really hard not to splash around in the market here and cause unneeded volatility.
Volatility is what will kill your currency, not price.

Our existing BTS reserves are mostly earmarked for other purposes at this time and moving it into anything else would make it harder to move quickly on things we need to do later.

Also, I'm not sure if you've noticed this or not, but it's not exactly easy to buy even plain old BTS right now. 
Every solution we've looked at including buying BTC and selling it for BTS, includes an unsatisfactory premium and we  we're here to do business not to burn through our cash reserves,.

We are working on a solution that includes building out a gateway to enable buying & selling BTS via ATMs.
But even if it were up today, if we patronized that ourselves, then we would be buying from ourselves, which would be pointless.

You have a point about BTS being seriously undervalued at the moment.  I agree.
If you want to sell us $1.00 worth of BTS at current rates and get $1.05 USD in return that would be fine as well.
What I've stated though is the limit of our offer, anything more expensive than that, and other methods become better choices.

Offline Volker

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Re: Need $10K bitUSD, will pay actual USD with 5% premium
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2015, 07:23:00 PM »
I was recently offered a job as community liaison by tsaishen, but I'm strongly recommending against this. Buying bitUSD for a premium is a huge waste of money.

1. If you have BTS, then you can create bitUSD by shorting bitUSD and then buying your own shorts. I'd expect you to have lots of BTS in reserve if you expected your activities to double the price of BTS.
2. If you don't have BTS, then you could offer your would-be employees BTC. I would accept that if I'd received that offer.
3. You could've offered to pay us would-be employees by Bank of America bank transfer, Western Union, Paypal instead of involving other forum members. Again, I would've accepted.

It's troubling that none of these ideas, which would've saved you money, hadn't occurred to you.
I'm going to reject your job offer for failure to satisfy my sole condition of acceptance.

To everyone else:
Do not send any money.

Please don't contact me again.

Thank you.

Offline tsaishen

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Re: Need $10K bitUSD, will pay actual USD with 5% premium
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2015, 07:58:09 PM »
I was recently offered a job as community liaison by tsaishen, but I'm strongly recommending against this. Buying bitUSD for a premium is a huge waste of money.

1. If you have BTS, then you can create bitUSD by shorting bitUSD and then buying your own shorts. I'd expect you to have lots of BTS in reserve if you expected your activities to double the price of BTS.
2. If you don't have BTS, then you could offer your would-be employees BTC. I would accept that if I'd received that offer.
3. You could've offered to pay us would-be employees by Bank of America bank transfer, Western Union, Paypal instead of involving other forum members. Again, I would've accepted.

It's troubling that none of these ideas, which would've saved you money, hadn't occurred to you.
I'm going to reject your job offer for failure to satisfy my sole condition of acceptance.

To everyone else:
Do not send any money.

Please don't contact me again.

Thank you.

That was unexpected and seems very out of character. 
I wonder if it wouldn't have made more sense to contact via PM before such a loud quit.

No one else seemed interested in the idea of BTC or a fixed BTS amount, which is why I never brought it up to you. 
I didn't realize you were in the US and banking with the big banks or would have offered the US wire transfer thing, that's actually a lot cheaper. 
Just didn't seem your style, guess I made a mistake there.

I am mostly just confused because you stated specifically you wanted to be paid in bitUSD, my understanding was that this WAS your sole condition of acceptance, so I hope you can see where I'm coming from.

Shorting to create bitUSD didn't fit with our risk model, among other things it ties up BTS liquidity that is needed for other things.
As I already stated, we are trying to limit forex exposure as much as possible.

I offered you the position because you had insight that I found valuable. 
The position of community liaison is specifically there to help the community out with questions etc, it's essential and your insight could have played a key role.

It's your choice though, this rolls with or without you, just wish it was with.
Best of luck in all your future endeavors!
« Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 08:00:59 PM by tsaishen »

Offline nomoreheroes7

Re: Need $10K bitUSD, will pay actual USD with 5% premium
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2015, 08:14:40 PM »
While I agree that Volker is voicing his disagreement the wrong way, it does seem kind of dangerous for community members to send BitUSD to an unknown account and hope you'll follow through with your  +5% promise. Probably would be safer & cheaper to just pay everyone in BTC (or PayPal/wire transfer, if possible). If they're worried about short-term volatility there should be no reason they can't cash bitcoin out immediately to fiat (or use it to buy BitUSD themselves, if they're so inclined). Paying in BitUSD at this stage of the game with no real fiat on/off-ramps in place just sucks money away in fees.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 08:17:02 PM by nomoreheroes7 »

zerosum

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Re: Need $10K bitUSD, will pay actual USD with 5% premium
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2015, 08:19:36 PM »
I was recently offered a job as community liaison by tsaishen, but I'm strongly recommending against this. Buying bitUSD for a premium is a huge waste of money.

1. If you have BTS, then you can create bitUSD by shorting bitUSD and then buying your own shorts. I'd expect you to have lots of BTS in reserve if you expected your activities to double the price of BTS.
2. If you don't have BTS, then you could offer your would-be employees BTC. I would accept that if I'd received that offer.
3. You could've offered to pay us would-be employees by Bank of America bank transfer, Western Union, Paypal instead of involving other forum members. Again, I would've accepted.

It's troubling that none of these ideas, which would've saved you money, hadn't occurred to you.
I'm going to reject your job offer for failure to satisfy my sole condition of acceptance.

To everyone else:
Do not send any money.

Please don't contact me again.

Thank you.
I agree. Stinks from a mile. Lot's of red flags for my liking!

Offline clayop

Re: Need $10K bitUSD, will pay actual USD with 5% premium
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2015, 08:26:56 PM »
Here's an alternative to bitUSD. Why don't you use bitCNY temporarily? It now have a great liquidity, about $6,000 (1.4 mil BTS)
Bitshares Korea - http://www.bitshares.kr
Vote for me and see Korean Bitshares community grows
delegate-clayop

Offline jsidhu

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Re: Need $10K bitUSD, will pay actual USD with 5% premium
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2015, 08:39:15 PM »
i dont think its a scam.. seems pretty legit.. i may consider to develop their wordpress site. Time constraints are pretty tight though.
Hired by blockchain | Developer
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Offline Ander

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Re: Need $10K bitUSD, will pay actual USD with 5% premium
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2015, 08:49:08 PM »
tsaishen, if you cannot acquire bitUSD right now with which to pay people, why waste 5% of your funds trying to pay them in bitUSD?  Why not pay in something else, like BTS, BTC, or fiat? 

I know that we want to use bitUSD, but if its not working right now because of the market matching bug, and youre going to have to pay a premium to do it, why not pay with something else?
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