Poll

What do you think of this proposal?

Good idea - Should be considered for Referral Program
12 (66.7%)
Bad Idea- Not aligned with Bitshares interests
2 (11.1%)
Bad Idea - Not technically feasible
1 (5.6%)
Don't Understand
3 (16.7%)

Total Members Voted: 17

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Offline Bitcoinfan

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Ideas on Bitshares Referral Program
« on: May 03, 2015, 06:26:18 PM »

I'm trying to think ahead to what the referral program will be like because I find it quite intriguing.  Right now I'm piecing together the bits of clues that Bytemaster has been dropping on the members.  So far what I can say it sounds like:

1) Incentive businesses to build on the blockchain by transaction fees.  This would likewise consider a increase in the current .5 bts transaction cost. 
2) Will be a one tier referral, similar to Max's.  Meaning fees will not be distributed in pyramid incentive structure.
3) Ideally, benefits to the business will be based on both users signed up and by transaction volume.  Unlike the standing delegate system, this is a direct performance based outcome.  (eg. Not a performer, your just not paid at all.) 

So right now, since the actual referral program is in the conceptual stage, I'd like to kick a few ideas around which may help guide the discussion and possibly enhance the referral program.

The way I see a business on the blockchain being compensated for their direct contribution is by allowing them to register a specific set of addresses.  A Business would pay a fixed fee for reserving these public addresses and it will be associated only with them.  It could be something like as BTS- COMPANY-XYZ-098jfHB5XMLmzFVj8ALj6mfBsbifRoD4miY.  I believe this was done in the Bitcoin universe for Edward Snowden, where every address that had 1snow delimited in the first few characters was all allocated to him.  Thus we can know any transaction done with these addresses, is linked to this businesses.  Like Coinbase, the Business will have the new users that they bring in subscribe to that particular address.  This allows the Bitshares network to pseudonymously track users and the transactions that particular business is creating.  Any program, such as a reddit/gambling/messaging app, uses only that specified set of addresses. Fees will proportionally go back to the business's bts account.  Sure anybody can sign up to these specially delimited addresses, but its a moot point, since the transaction fee that user created will go right back to the Business.

The vision in the end is to have many different and diverse companies offering a wide range of services.  They each would have their own pet addresses.  How are the transaction fees allocated from here?  Bitshares might distribute transaction fees proportional to first users brought in and also to total transaction volume.  I envision there will be a ultimate list of reserved addresses (btssnow, btscoin, btspts, btsnotes,btsmoon,, etc) sorted first by total registered addresses and then by total transactions.  So really the Businesses that have the most registered users on the blockchain and then to most transactions will receive the largest percentage of transaction fees.  This would align with the goal was not only to get users, but users who are active in the Bitshares blockchain. Its not most registered users (since there could be many empty accts).  Or even most transactions.  Sorting it twice allows for a double performance metric: most transactions after most users.

This are just some ideas I thought the the community should think through.  How practical do you think this is?  What do you think of this type of incentive scheme being implemented into Bitshares?






Offline Bitcoinfan

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Re: Ideas on Bitshares Referral Program
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2015, 09:20:41 PM »
Bump.  Thoughts? I'd really like to source feedback on this.  I really think this is a good idea that they community should form an opinion on.  Against my stance that polls shouldn't be used to propose ideas, I also just added one to generate discussion and understanding.  Please vote!

Offline Method-X

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Re: Ideas on Bitshares Referral Program
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2015, 09:34:10 PM »
I've been trying to get a referral program taken seriously for almost a year.

 DAC + Referral Program = Viral Gold

Offline carpet ride

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Ideas on Bitshares Referral Program
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2015, 09:42:31 PM »
Method, that thread was gold.

Also reminds me how long we've been cooped up on this forum.. .  Can't wait to have the affiliate program so we can get out there and sell the platform


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Offline Stan

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Re: Ideas on Bitshares Referral Program
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2015, 10:09:17 PM »
[quote  author=Method-X link=topic=16133.msg206819#msg206819 date=1430775250]
I've been trying to get a referral program taken seriously for almost a year.

 DAC + Referral Program = Viral Gold
[/quote]

If we do implement a (presumably awesome) referral program (hypothetically speaking) do we have to admit you were right?   :)
« Last Edit: May 04, 2015, 10:12:25 PM by Stan »
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline Bitcoinfan

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Re: Ideas on Bitshares Referral Program
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2015, 10:25:48 PM »
I've been trying to get a referral program taken seriously for almost a year.

 DAC + Referral Program = Viral Gold

So to flesh out this more:  in your referral program, will applications be restricted only if you have a referral code?  In other words an account can use a bingo app if it has inputted the correct refferral code.  How will we know that app brought users in and also generated transactions?

I'm thinking in the proposal that I outlined, certain businesses like coinbase will restrict their features only to their set of addresses.  That way they can know exzactly how many users they are bringing in and how many translations are coming from their users.  In your referral affiliated code, a single address can have referral codes that overlap with other business codes.  Concern is that over time It's indistinguishable which app is genererating the most activity. 
« Last Edit: May 04, 2015, 10:27:34 PM by Bitcoinfan »

Offline Ander

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Re: Ideas on Bitshares Referral Program
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2015, 10:31:10 PM »
I'm in favor of pretty much any 1 level referral plan you can come up with.  :0  So it looks good to me.  Increasing transaction fees seems like a great way to pay for referrals at the time being, since it doesnt result in dilution, and the trasnaction fees are currently insanely low, since the price dropped so much. 
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Offline fuzzy

Re: Ideas on Bitshares Referral Program
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2015, 01:42:25 AM »
I prefer a referral plan more like Solavei's.  1 level makes only big businesses effective and completely cuts out the little guys (ie all the community members I've seen sacrificing for this project over the last 18+ months)

For instance if I approach Dell and get them on board, they have no incentive to cut me in.  Instead, they are incentivized to take life time referal fees from all the users they get to download a bitshares wallet and say "thanks little buddy...on your way now. I'll take it from here!" This gives me no incentive to even approach an a big company and in the long run centralizes the voting power directly into the hands of only the large corporations that sign onto this.

And before someone says "it will be a pyramid scheme" I urge everyone to sincerely look at how brilliant Solavei's model really is.  The owner and founder is someone I had the pleasure of chatting with before and he is a marine and highly respectful of Constitutional rights...and the model reflects an effective grassroots version of what we are talking about.

The referral program has never been something I've been entirely against...I just fear the current model severely hamstrings the original vision of bitshares that made me so passionate about spending my time and efforts to help.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 01:52:41 AM by fuzzy »
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Offline Permie

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Re: Ideas on Bitshares Referral Program
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2015, 10:37:57 PM »
I prefer a referral plan more like Solavei's.  1 level makes only big businesses effective and completely cuts out the little guys (ie all the community members I've seen sacrificing for this project over the last 18+ months)

For instance if I approach Dell and get them on board, they have no incentive to cut me in.  Instead, they are incentivized to take life time referal fees from all the users they get to download a bitshares wallet and say "thanks little buddy...on your way now. I'll take it from here!" This gives me no incentive to even approach an a big company and in the long run centralizes the voting power directly into the hands of only the large corporations that sign onto this.

The referral program has never been something I've been entirely against...I just fear the current model severely hamstrings the original vision of bitshares that made me so passionate about spending my time and efforts to help.
I agree with this sentiment.

I also think bitmarket's idea is relevant in this thread:

Important: There is nothing official about this post.  I have not spoken to anyone about it yet. Just an idea I would like to get feedback on.

The following is an idea to:
  • Increase bitshares revenues immediately.
  • Create an army of rabid fans that are paid to promote bitshares
  • Pay those fans from fees and not by dilution and only after they have created value for bitshares.
  • Eliminate the need to pay any marketing delegates through dilution.
  • Create massive incentives for organizations and companies to begin using bitassets with their employees, customers and partners,
  • Create massive incentives for people to run bitshares meetups.
  • Create a model for all bitshares chains to automate their marketing, and
  • Allow bitshares to be the only blockchain that pays its users directly through the blockchain for growing the user base.

The idea:
Allow bitshares fees to be shared with the person who introduced the user that paid the fees. Possibly allow the sharing of those fees for several generations or tiers.

Details (from someone who can’t code and has no idea if this is feasible)(All figures used are just place holders and should be thought out more):  The blockchain already records all registered users by recording a TITAN name for each user. What if it recorded 2 more pieces of information.
1.   The status of the account, and
2.   The TITAN name of the introducer/referrer.

An account may have one of 2 states. A non income earner state/status. This is the current status that we all know and love. Or An income earner status.  For a fee of 20bitUSD a user may upgrade to this status, which enables them to earn a share in the Fees paid by anyone they introduce for the next say 20 years. This includes the 20 bitUSD fees for upgrading status.

For a simple example lets say all fees are shared 20% to the bitshares network, 50% to first upline who is earner status and 30% to the next upline of earner status. When a user (John) makes a transaction, lets say he pays 20bitUSD for earner status here is what happens.
1.The Bitshares network takes 4bitUSD and converts it to bitshares and burns them. (Yay us, we are reversing our dilution or said another way we re creating income for the DAC)
2. John’s introducer is looked up. John’s introducer is Mary. Mary has not paid the 20bitUSD to become an income earner status and so the network looks for Mary’s introducer. Mary’s introducer is Jane and Jane has paid the 20 bitUSD fee and does have income earner Status.  She will receive 10bitUSD (50% of the 20).   
3.Hopefully you guys can figure out how the remaining 6bitUSD is distributed. If no one in Jane’s upline has paid the $20 then the network gets it and burns as above.

There are lots of different combinations of tiers/percentages/payouts that could take place.  That is for us to discuss later but the point is that we have achieved the worlds first self marketing DAC. No elections and No dilutions necessary. And only performers get paid. No guessing who will produce like the delegate model.

Consider some use cases.

1.   Anyone hosting a meetup now has a revenue model and an advertising budget to grow their meetup.
2.   Someone may be incentivized to hand out paper wallets loaded with several dollars on it. The QR code contains their TITAN referrer name and when someone scans the QR code to receive the funds the referrer is automatically populated.
3.   Brochure printers are incentivized to print and handout brochures with a referrer code on it.
4.   A factory owner in say China says to his workers…. From now on I am paying you all in bitCNY.  I have purchased a bitshres ATM and placed it in the lobby so everyone can redeem their pay for cash when ever they want. The factory owner makes money on the ATM spreads, and the fees generated by his employees for 20 years, but that that will take too long.  He holds a meeting for his employees and explains the Earner status option. His profits from the signups pay for the ATM in the first week and he now has an army of employees who are out introducing bitshares to local merchants so they can spend their wages their and so they can earn commissions.
5.   This will get the attention of every person in Crypto.
6.   Have a twitter list? Email list? Facebook friends?  Big pay day on your horizon.

One of the best things about this idea for me is people are incentivized to sit with someone, explain it to them, set them up with an account and be there first bridge. 
For example: I meet my friend for lunch. I tell them about this cool new money/payment network.  I show them the app.  I say here. Let me show you how easy it is.  I will send you 50 cents. We download the app together and set them up with a TITAN address. I want to be involved in this process so I can make sure I am the referrer. I say now you try it and send me 40 cents back. They try. They love it. I explain you can send any amount of money anywhere in their world and it is that fast and that simple.  They say Wow this is the Future. (this has happened to me 3 times since the light wallet has been live btw.)   I say, well you know you can make money with this thing, just by introducing people like I just did you.  Because I introduced you, I am going to get paid a fraction of a penny every time you use this app for the next 20 years.  With enough people it adds up real fast. In fact if you introduce people to this, I get paid on that as well. I have hundreds of people introducing this to other people for me right now… And I get paid on all of it. (Insert 5 minutes of questions of answers) My friend says I want to be an earner.  I say It is simple. It only costs $20. You give me the 20 now and I will pay your fee for you and you will be an earner. In fact give me another 20 and I will send you 20bitUSD so you have some funds to by stuff.  Plus I will show you to a few websites where you can purchase stuff with it or just hold it and earn interest what ever you like.

That is a powerful conversation.

MLM groups will be all over this like white on rice.  In fact I already know of one who would get behind it right now if it were built.

So community is it a good idea? Tech crew is it possible? An answer in the affirmative will not be seen as an endorsement.

Thoughts/feedback/criticisms welcome
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Re: Ideas on Bitshares Referral Program
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2015, 10:48:11 PM »
I agree with this sentiment.

Even since I read your forum name, let alone your first post Changie...uhhh Permie, I had a hunch you would agree... like a lot with him. :)
« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 10:56:29 PM by tonyk2 »

Offline Bitcoinfan

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Re: Ideas on Bitshares Referral Program
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2015, 10:52:20 PM »

For instance if I approach Dell and get them on board, they have no incentive to cut me in.  Instead, they are incentivized to take life time referal fees from all the users they get to download a bitshares wallet and say "thanks little buddy...on your way now. I'll take it from here!" This gives me no incentive to even approach an a big company and in the long run centralizes the voting power directly into the hands of only the large corporations that sign onto this.

At a grassroots level it's intriguing( person to person)  But when your talking about a person to business referral, who's to say in a tiered system dell still wouldn't cut you out.  They would just create a separate account and funnel users there.  To say under your referral,  you would have to offer serious value proposition.  Which I assume most of us don't have.  I think most businesses are indepdent self seeking and wouldn't care about keeping a referral hierarchy in tact unless there was a big time incentive behind t. 
« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 10:57:19 PM by Bitcoinfan »

Offline fuzzy

Re: Ideas on Bitshares Referral Program
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2015, 12:44:28 AM »
I agree with this sentiment.

Even since I read your forum name, let alone your first post Changie...uhhh Permie, I had a hunch you would agree... like a lot with him. :)

Thanks tony :)

I'm glad you agree.  It's much easier when we try to get along I have found.  So it is appreciated that you have seemed to be trying to chill out a little bit lately.

Oh btw, I heard your pic is your wife.  If so, she is stunning...truly beautiful. 
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Offline fuzzy

Re: Ideas on Bitshares Referral Program
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2015, 12:45:44 AM »

For instance if I approach Dell and get them on board, they have no incentive to cut me in.  Instead, they are incentivized to take life time referal fees from all the users they get to download a bitshares wallet and say "thanks little buddy...on your way now. I'll take it from here!" This gives me no incentive to even approach an a big company and in the long run centralizes the voting power directly into the hands of only the large corporations that sign onto this.

At a grassroots level it's intriguing( person to person)  But when your talking about a person to business referral, who's to say in a tiered system dell still wouldn't cut you out.  They would just create a separate account and funnel users there.  To say under your referral,  you would have to offer serious value proposition.  Which I assume most of us don't have.  I think most businesses are indepdent self seeking and wouldn't care about keeping a referral hierarchy in tact unless there was a big time incentive behind t.

If you research Solavei's system you will find that they would have no incentive to cut me out.  It would not benefit them in any way and in fact would likely take more effort that isn't worth it.  :)
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Offline Bitcoinfan

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Re: Ideas on Bitshares Referral Program
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2015, 12:50:40 AM »
Do you have a link.  Can you stick it here? I've never seen solaver's proposal.

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Re: Ideas on Bitshares Referral Program
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2015, 12:52:27 AM »

Oh btw, I heard your pic is your wife.  If so, she is stunning...truly beautiful.

ooh NO - my identity is discovered!

I am Gerard Piqué
« Last Edit: May 06, 2015, 01:17:49 AM by tonyk2 »

 

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