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Offline clayop

The Key is Burning BTS
« on: June 01, 2015, 07:49:56 AM »

Currently, the supply of BTS is increasing about 148k every day. In terms of ROA, it equals to 2.2% annually. This means investors are losing 2.2% of value while holding BTS for a year. But what happens if 68k BTS are burned every day?

If so, ROA would be about 1%. This number is greater than financial industry's ROA (e.g. JP Morgan's annual ranges from 0.74~0.9%). This not only attract investor but also increase its value (i.e. Holding 1 cent value of BTS will become 1.01 cent after a year). Given the increased price and if the burning amount keep consistent (68k a day), the amount of burn in terms of USD will also increase, and this further promote price again.

Since my English is not that good, I cannot expound my idea (also this idea is very crude). But in my opinion, burning BTS is the key of the growth.

Any comments are appreciated.
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Offline xeroc

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Re: The Key is Burning BTS
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2015, 08:03:48 AM »
That's the whole point and motivations of the changes to be announced in early June.
For the reasons of keeping a self-funded  blockchain (incredibly big advantage over other 'coins'), BitShares will keep it's dilutional parts and pay "workers" and devs ..
From what I heard and read, Bytemaster has some solid plans to increase the USE of the platform which will increase the amount of burned BTS ..
There are currently already a few features that require to burn fees:
 - UIA creation
 - MPA creation
 - delegate registration
 - etc..

And it seems some more will come such that we do not approach 1% dilution but (this is the plan) surpass dilution rate and have BTS be profitable in it self ..
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Offline clayop

Re: The Key is Burning BTS
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2015, 08:11:59 AM »
That's the whole point and motivations of the changes to be announced in early June.
For the reasons of keeping a self-funded  blockchain (incredibly big advantage over other 'coins'), BitShares will keep it's dilutional parts and pay "workers" and devs ..
From what I heard and read, Bytemaster has some solid plans to increase the USE of the platform which will increase the amount of burned BTS ..
There are currently already a few features that require to burn fees:
 - UIA creation
 - MPA creation
 - delegate registration
 - etc..

And it seems some more will come such that we do not approach 1% dilution but (this is the plan) surpass dilution rate and have BTS be profitable in it self ..

Current system is more favorable to delegates(workers) than shareholders IMO. For instance, 100% delegates collect whole fees from asset creations and transactions. If June update focuses on burning fees, it would be the best.
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Offline xeroc

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Re: The Key is Burning BTS
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2015, 08:29:46 AM »
Current system is more favorable to delegates(workers) than shareholders IMO. For instance, 100% delegates collect whole fees from asset creations and transactions. If June update focuses on burning fees, it would be the best.
That's not correct.
Delegates are paid ONLY their payrate*50BTS per block .. no BTS more ..
all most FEEs in the system are BURNED already!!
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu

Offline clayop

Re: The Key is Burning BTS
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2015, 09:26:58 AM »
Current system is more favorable to delegates(workers) than shareholders IMO. For instance, 100% delegates collect whole fees from asset creations and transactions. If June update focuses on burning fees, it would be the best.
That's not correct.
Delegates are paid ONLY their payrate*50BTS per block .. no BTS more ..
all most FEEs in the system are BURNED already!!
http://www.bitsharesblocks.com/blocks/block?id=2688165

So where do the collected fees go?
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Offline xeroc

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Re: The Key is Burning BTS
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2015, 09:37:58 AM »
Current system is more favorable to delegates(workers) than shareholders IMO. For instance, 100% delegates collect whole fees from asset creations and transactions. If June update focuses on burning fees, it would be the best.
That's not correct.
Delegates are paid ONLY their payrate*50BTS per block .. no BTS more ..
all most FEEs in the system are BURNED already!!
http://www.bitsharesblocks.com/blocks/block?id=2688165

So where do the collected fees go?

Take a look at blocks # 2688170 and compare to # 2688171 and #2688172

it seems there is a bug in these parameters:
Code: [Select]
  "signee_shares_issued": 150000,
  "signee_fees_collected": 4890,
  "signee_fees_destroyed": 158125,
@vikram ? any idea?
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Offline svk

Re: The Key is Burning BTS
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2015, 10:04:00 AM »
Transaction fees also go to the delegates in the same proportion as their % pay, so when you see "Collected fees": 1.63025 BTS and Destroyed Fees: 0 BTS, it means you are looking at a 100% delegate who receives 100% of transaction fees.
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Offline xeroc

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Re: The Key is Burning BTS
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2015, 10:05:26 AM »
Transaction fees also go to the delegates in the same proportion as their % pay, so when you see "Collected fees": 1.63025 BTS and Destroyed Fees: 0 BTS, it means you are looking at a 100% delegate who receives 100% of transaction fees.

ok .. so:

Delegate income = (50 BTS + fee) * payrate

The rest of the fees are burned

That way the numbers make more sense .. thanks for the clarification
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38PTSWarrior

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Re: The Key is Burning BTS
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2015, 12:15:26 PM »
That*s why it is good to vote for delegate martin-38ptswarrior-raum
62 percent get burned and you get face-to-face marketing to makers in the wealthy city of Stuttgart, where they invented the car.

Offline bytemaster

Re: The Key is Burning BTS
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2015, 12:44:15 PM »
Fees are averaged over all delegates and not paid entirely to the delegate that produced the block containing the transactions that earned the fee.

This means that about 66% of all fees are burned and 33% are paid to delegates.   

We will be proposing some changes in the future in this regard that should result in more fees being kept out of circulation.
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Offline BunkerChain Labs

Re: The Key is Burning BTS
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2015, 02:07:11 PM »
That*s why it is good to vote for delegate martin-38ptswarrior-raum
62 percent get burned and you get face-to-face marketing to makers in the wealthy city of Stuttgart, where they invented the car.

Yes.. I find this thread so ironically contrary to this push back in the past to 100% delegates being somehow a boon to bitshares value growth.

Vote for artin-38ptswarrior-raum and vote for http://vote.bunkermining.com .. we got 5 more delegates that need to be voted in that will put 100% of its bts into generating more liquidity, transactions, and users!

We are only short term though.. so once we have the updated infrastructure all done and we reached the profitability we need to move forward we would just start burning the BTS until we got voted out. This would accomplish nearly 30k of BTS a day being burned like was suggested to be the sweet spot.

Act today!
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Offline jsidhu

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Re: The Key is Burning BTS
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2015, 02:33:01 PM »
That*s why it is good to vote for delegate martin-38ptswarrior-raum
62 percent get burned and you get face-to-face marketing to makers in the wealthy city of Stuttgart, where they invented the car.

Yes.. I find this thread so ironically contrary to this push back in the past to 100% delegates being somehow a boon to bitshares value growth.

Vote for artin-38ptswarrior-raum and vote for http://vote.bunkermining.com .. we got 5 more delegates that need to be voted in that will put 100% of its bts into generating more liquidity, transactions, and users!

We are only short term though.. so once we have the updated infrastructure all done and we reached the profitability we need to move forward we would just start burning the BTS until we got voted out. This would accomplish nearly 30k of BTS a day being burned like was suggested to be the sweet spot.

Act today!
We know
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merockstar

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Re: The Key is Burning BTS
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2015, 02:51:34 PM »
YAY! I was really concerned about this for a long time when we shifted from burning to fees to paying delegates.

I'm glad that didn't fall on deaf ears.

 +5% +5% +5% +5% +5%

Offline clayop

Re: The Key is Burning BTS
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2015, 07:24:48 PM »
Imo the best way to achieve this is to increase tx numbers with massive adoption of Bts and bitassets. We need at least 400x increase of tx numbers.
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Offline toast

Re: The Key is Burning BTS
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2015, 09:34:31 PM »
The key is *income* with which to burn BTS. Prove you aren't paying for everything with inflation and suddenly people will be eager to buy BTS regardless of what you are doing with it.
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