Poll

Should we hold a community hangout today?

Yes, Defnitely...
Nope...
I don't care....(Completely Neutral)

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Offline fuzzy

Should we hold a community hangout today? (poll)
« on: June 13, 2015, 11:08:37 AM »

Regarding this topic:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,16902.msg216113.html#msg216113

Should we hold a community hangout today?
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Offline fuzzy

Re: Should we hold a community hangout today? (poll)
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2015, 11:11:28 AM »
If the votes say yes, let's shoot for this to occur in 6-8hours from the time of posting. 
It is currently 7am EST, so that would be 1-3pm EST.
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Offline BunkerChain Labs

Re: Should we hold a community hangout today? (poll)
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2015, 11:14:55 AM »
He is coming to the hangout? Will Stan or Dan be there?
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Offline fuzzy

Re: Should we hold a community hangout today? (poll)
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2015, 12:19:42 PM »
I will look at the votes at approximately 12noon.  BM and Stan would obviously be invited but this would be a community hangout so it would not be necessary for them to attend. 
I actually think newmine brought up a line of thinking that everyone should take into consideration though...and trust me I am probably one of the biggest BM and BitShares around.  I say this not because I distrust BM and the crews intentions...but we also should not be naive and think that the possibility of something unforeseen could occur and cause great damage.  It is for this reason we should always try to consider ways fto protect ourselves. 
I still hold my original PTS precisely because I never liked the idea of putting all my eggs in one basket.  It just doesn't make sense from a risk mitigation perspective.  Considering everyone here is at least somewhat a technophile, I'd imagine they should all be able to appreciate the value of risk mitigation strategies that diversify us and make the risk/reward ratio more pallatable.

Now as for my beef with newmine--he acts like bitshares' team has completely screwed us and cannot be trusted. Everytime he posts he does so provocatively almost as though he wants to cause division.  That is frustrating. 
« Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 12:27:31 PM by fuzzy »
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Offline wallace

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Re: Should we hold a community hangout today? (poll)
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2015, 02:05:40 PM »
I will look at the votes at approximately 12noon.  BM and Stan would obviously be invited but this would be a community hangout so it would not be necessary for them to attend. 
I actually think newmine brought up a line of thinking that everyone should take into consideration though...and trust me I am probably one of the biggest BM and BitShares around.  I say this not because I distrust BM and the crews intentions...but we also should not be naive and think that the possibility of something unforeseen could occur and cause great damage.  It is for this reason we should always try to consider ways fto protect ourselves. 
I still hold my original PTS precisely because I never liked the idea of putting all my eggs in one basket.  It just doesn't make sense from a risk mitigation perspective.  Considering everyone here is at least somewhat a technophile, I'd imagine they should all be able to appreciate the value of risk mitigation strategies that diversify us and make the risk/reward ratio more pallatable.

Now as for my beef with newmine--he acts like bitshares' team has completely screwed us and cannot be trusted. Everytime he posts he does so provocatively almost as though he wants to cause division.  That is frustrating.

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Offline wallace

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Re: Should we hold a community hangout today? (poll)
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2015, 02:07:34 PM »
we give this guy far too much attention.

Do we really have learnt something from currently BTS situation and the merger last Nov.?
« Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 02:10:26 PM by wallace »
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Offline rgcrypto

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Re: Should we hold a community hangout today? (poll)
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2015, 02:16:03 PM »
we give this guy far too much attention.
amen

Offline Thom

Re: Should we hold a community hangout today? (poll)
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2015, 02:23:32 PM »
we give this guy far too much attention.
+5%

I am much more concerned about the process by which decisions are made by of the dev team than their intentions to see BitShares succeed. Their track record on the former is not so great whereas the later is outstanding. I think they need all the help they can get in making better marketing and communications decisions, but they have not followed through in that department, time & time again. Whatever happened to the PR review board for example? Or  the huge incentives provided up front to certain parties while others who have demonstrated longstanding loyalty and value are passed over?

You can't deny the reality that the consulting revenue Cryptonomics produces could (especially in the short term while BTS marketcap is so low) be an incentive for them to shift development priorities away from BitShares.

The mainstream financial powers are fighting an economic war against crypto-currencies and it could be some time before BTS marketcap picks up. As we have seen no sharp rise in marketcap based on the 2.0 announcement, it may not come until the2.0 release has been tested and ready.

I only hope the pool of Cryptonomex investors have provided enough funding to see the dev team through these lean times without consulting distractions so 2.0 can remain the prime focus and see the light of day ASAP.

Fuzzy, if it were me I think I would have left newmine out of this thread entirely. Perhaps there is something to talk about regarding Cryptonomex's business plan and the BitShares roadmap, but I wouldn't have given any credit to newmine. He is all FUD. What he may provide in terms of stimulating anti-koolaid thinking he more than crushes with his inflammatory choice of words and volatile, negativity.

People that observe my posts can see they aren't always optimistic, but I'm always trying to get at the objective truth.

Offline mike623317

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Re: Should we hold a community hangout today? (poll)
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2015, 02:27:33 PM »

No because I'm not getting distracted from the good work the devs have done this week to winge about the cost of keeping them here to innovate for us.

Offline rgcrypto

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Re: Should we hold a community hangout today? (poll)
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2015, 02:38:53 PM »

No because I'm not getting distracted from the good work the devs have done this week to winge about the cost of keeping them here to innovate for us.

Couldn't have said it better.

Offline triox

Re: Should we hold a community hangout today? (poll)
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2015, 02:41:25 PM »
I don't know if the team has to address newmine specifically, since he has a tendency to sound a bit too aggressive (entertaining as it is), but the community's brewing concerns should definitely be addressed as it looks like the investor's interests and the interests of the development team may be diverging.

As things stand, Cryptonomex' hypothetical corporate gig could be actually worth more - and be far more liquid - than their entire BTS stake. Hell, it could be bigger than the entire BTS market cap.

As I understand it, the original investors were promised a stake in I3's future projects and Graphine is certainly the result of a two-year trial&error experimentation between  developers, investors, traders and the market realities. Now, that is not to say that the shareholders "own" Daniel Larimer and everything he does for the rest of his life. But it starts to look like Cryptonomex is becoming a competitor to Bitshares as it's corporate shares may be a better deal than BTS. That perception of project's self-cannibalization cannot be in Daniel's own interest either.

All those concerns about the future of Bitshares support and BTS value can be alleviated with a sharedrop - a decisive realigning of incentives between developers and investors.

Offline fuzzy

Re: Should we hold a community hangout today? (poll)
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2015, 02:48:22 PM »
Quote from: Thom
Fuzzy, if it were me I think I would have left newmine out of this thread entirely. Perhaps there is something to talk about regarding Cryptonomex's business plan and the BitShares roadmap, but I wouldn't have given any credit to newmine. He is all FUD. What he may provide in terms of stimulating anti-koolaid thinking he more than crushes with his inflammatory choice of words and volatile, negativity.

People that observe my posts can see they aren't always optimistic, but I'm always trying to get at the objective truth.

Impossible to leave newmine out of it.  Yes he generally brings topics up in a way that are needlessly negative and dramatic, but to think his points have no merit is a bit of a stretch imho...

For instance, what happens if the team works on a project for another company that BM starts out thinking will not compete with bitshares, but innovations that come from said project and demands from those who pay the teams salary (in a legally binding contract mind you) end up proving BM'S initial impression wrong?  Now BM  and team would be faced with a decision to fight a legal battle that is costly and likely unwinnable or to back out of a legally non-binding contract with the community of investors here.  Trust me, if I was only in this for myself I'd have taken one of any number of other opportunities I've had in the past to increase my own wages and simply invested in many crypto projects, but this one to me has always been worth it to sacrifice on that front...so I'm not trying to give a known FUDer more legtimacy, but what he said (though as always was in terrible form) does have a potential to occur. To say it isn't possible loses objectivity imho because of a distaste for Newmine's methods (for which I share distaste).
« Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 02:59:02 PM by fuzzy »
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Offline fuzzy

Re: Should we hold a community hangout today? (poll)
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2015, 02:53:09 PM »
I don't know if the team has to address newmine specifically, since he has a tendency to sound a bit too aggressive (entertaining as it is), but the community's brewing concerns should definitely be addressed as it looks like the investor's interests and the interests of the development team may be diverging.

As things stand, Cryptonomex' hypothetical corporate gig could be actually worth more - and be far more liquid - than their entire BTS stake. Hell, it could be bigger than the entire BTS market cap.

As I understand it, the original investors were promised a stake in I3's future projects and Graphine is certainly the result of a two-year trial&error experimentation between  developers, investors, traders and the market realities. Now, that is not to say that the shareholders "own" Daniel Larimer and everything he does for the rest of his life. But it starts to look like Cryptonomex is becoming a competitor to Bitshares as it's corporate shares may be a better deal than BTS. That perception of project's self-cannibalization cannot be in Daniel's own interest either.

All those concerns about the future of Bitshares support and BTS value can be alleviated with a sharedrop - a decisive realigning of incentives between developers and investors.

Later on in the process of building bitshares,  BM clarified that these promises were not legally binding and that our ags donations and pts stake were not investnents...but more like crowdfunding donations. 

This is why I've stated two things:
1) the community's unwillingness to provide devs with living wages  might end up costing us significantly and
2) We should, as a community, try to come up with ways to remediate the situation
« Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 02:57:17 PM by fuzzy »
BROWNIE==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
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Offline BunkerChain Labs

Re: Should we hold a community hangout today? (poll)
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2015, 03:32:10 PM »
I don't know if the team has to address newmine specifically, since he has a tendency to sound a bit too aggressive (entertaining as it is), but the community's brewing concerns should definitely be addressed as it looks like the investor's interests and the interests of the development team may be diverging.

As things stand, Cryptonomex' hypothetical corporate gig could be actually worth more - and be far more liquid - than their entire BTS stake. Hell, it could be bigger than the entire BTS market cap.

As I understand it, the original investors were promised a stake in I3's future projects and Graphine is certainly the result of a two-year trial&error experimentation between  developers, investors, traders and the market realities. Now, that is not to say that the shareholders "own" Daniel Larimer and everything he does for the rest of his life. But it starts to look like Cryptonomex is becoming a competitor to Bitshares as it's corporate shares may be a better deal than BTS. That perception of project's self-cannibalization cannot be in Daniel's own interest either.

All those concerns about the future of Bitshares support and BTS value can be alleviated with a sharedrop - a decisive realigning of incentives between developers and investors.

Later on in the process of building bitshares,  BM clarified that these promises were not legally binding and that our ags donations and pts stake were not investnents...but more like crowdfunding donations. 

This is why I've stated two things:
1) the community's unwillingness to provide devs with living wages  might end up costing us significantly and
2) We should, as a community, try to come up with ways to remediate the situation

And the SEC sees that these 'donations' are now 'shares' in a company... OUUU GOODY.. we got another one of these crypto-tard bitcoin thingies we can nail to the wall for SEC violation in selling unregistered securities. Good-bye BitShares.

Seriously, think big picture and understand that Dan et all are doing their best to lead us forward.

I am not going to participate in any kind of hangout where someone else is going to discuss how to dictate to someone else how they are going to run their company without even the directors of said company being present. This is turning into mob FUD and it should end right here.

Have a hangout about features in BitShares 2.0 and ways it can work better, I will gladly participate. Not how we are entitled to tell someone else how to run their business.



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