Margin Call Price

svk · October 17, 2015, 06:19:41 AM

Quote from: clout on October 17, 2015, 05:22:37 AM
Quote from: topcandle on October 17, 2015, 05:13:33 AM
Quote from: clout on October 17, 2015, 12:10:45 AM
Why is the margin call price for cny 0.0202 BTS/CNY. I just had a one of my short positions called even though my margin price was 0.025 BTS/CNY which the market never hit and the collateral was sold at 0.0202 BTS/CNY. I just lost a lot of money...

Clout what was your collateral?

If it was only 2Xs, its probably not enough. It might need to be 5X's in this thin market.

Bitshares has been 3X collateral for the past two years it makes no sense why in 2.0 you would need 5X. The whole point of the upgrade was so that less collateral would be needed. I'm literally done. I don't think I can endorse this project.

You do not need 5x, you need 1.75 *1.5 =2.62x. That's with the current maintenance and squeeze protection ratios defined by the witnesses.

Several things are bothering me about the current market engine though:

1. Margin called shorts cannot force cover at a fair price, but only at a price between their call price and feed + 50%. In BTS 1.0 this range was from feed to feed + 10% (unless I misunderstood that too)
2. Margin called shorts do not use the holder's current stock of bit assets to cover, but always buy on the open market at a premium.
3. The market engine allows margin positions to be opened at 1.75 collateral ratio, a position that gets margin called right away (I now prevent this in the GUI)
4. Probably most important: no one knew it worked like this before yesterday pretty much (including me)..

alt · October 17, 2015, 05:26:20 AM

Quote from: clout on October 17, 2015, 05:22:37 AM
Quote from: topcandle on October 17, 2015, 05:13:33 AM
Quote from: clout on October 17, 2015, 12:10:45 AM
Why is the margin call price for cny 0.0202 BTS/CNY. I just had a one of my short positions called even though my margin price was 0.025 BTS/CNY which the market never hit and the collateral was sold at 0.0202 BTS/CNY. I just lost a lot of money...

Clout what was your collateral?

If it was only 2Xs, its probably not enough. It might need to be 5X's in this thin market.

Bitshares has been 3X collateral for the past two years it makes no sense why in 2.0 you would need 5X. The whole point of the upgrade was so that less collateral would be needed. I'm literally done. I don't think I can endorse this project.

the most unfair is you'll lose (1-10/11) when you are force margin call, after upgrade to 2.0, without any notify, you'll lose (1-10/15)

clout · October 17, 2015, 05:22:37 AM

Quote from: topcandle on October 17, 2015, 05:13:33 AM
Quote from: clout on October 17, 2015, 12:10:45 AM
Why is the margin call price for cny 0.0202 BTS/CNY. I just had a one of my short positions called even though my margin price was 0.025 BTS/CNY which the market never hit and the collateral was sold at 0.0202 BTS/CNY. I just lost a lot of money...

Clout what was your collateral?

If it was only 2Xs, its probably not enough. It might need to be 5X's in this thin market.

Bitshares has been 3X collateral for the past two years it makes no sense why in 2.0 you would need 5X. The whole point of the upgrade was so that less collateral would be needed. I'm literally done. I don't think I can endorse this project.

tonyk · October 17, 2015, 05:19:04 AM

Quote from: topcandle on October 17, 2015, 05:11:54 AM
Quote from: Troglodactyl on October 17, 2015, 05:08:20 AM
Quote from: topcandle on October 17, 2015, 04:57:45 AM
There is no issue if you have lots of collateral if your a shorter. YOu need more than 3Xs.

Even if that's true, 3x collateral won't stay 3x for long with so many people being forced to dump BTS at 2/3 the market rate.

BTS 2.0 Works. This post has been misdirecting people. 3X will go very far, maybe into 8.88MM. If that doesn't suit you then do 6X's. Your shorting it, and it will help peopel buy USD and bring Liquidity to the market.

Otherwise NOTHING is WRONG.

STAY CALM... BTS 2.0 WORKS.

Well aside from driving strong bulls (read true believers ) out of their BTS positions for 50% loss (let me put it more correctly - forcing them to sell at .66 the fair price) without any sign and warning.... it does.

topcandle · October 17, 2015, 05:13:33 AM

Quote from: clout on October 17, 2015, 12:10:45 AM
Why is the margin call price for cny 0.0202 BTS/CNY. I just had a one of my short positions called even though my margin price was 0.025 BTS/CNY which the market never hit and the collateral was sold at 0.0202 BTS/CNY. I just lost a lot of money...

Clout what was your collateral?

If it was only 2Xs, its probably not enough. It might need to be 5X's in this thin market.

topcandle · October 17, 2015, 05:11:54 AM

Quote from: Troglodactyl on October 17, 2015, 05:08:20 AM
Quote from: topcandle on October 17, 2015, 04:57:45 AM
There is no issue if you have lots of collateral if your a shorter. YOu need more than 3Xs.

Even if that's true, 3x collateral won't stay 3x for long with so many people being forced to dump BTS at 2/3 the market rate.

BTS 2.0 Works. This post has been misdirecting people. 3X will go very far, maybe into 8.88MM. If that doesn't suit you then do 6X's. Your shorting it, and it will help peopel buy USD and bring Liquidity to the market.

Otherwise NOTHING is WRONG.

STAY CALM... BTS 2.0 WORKS.

Troglodactyl · October 17, 2015, 05:08:20 AM

Quote from: topcandle on October 17, 2015, 04:57:45 AM
There is no issue if you have lots of collateral if your a shorter. YOu need more than 3Xs.

Even if that's true, 3x collateral won't stay 3x for long with so many people being forced to dump BTS at 2/3 the market rate.

topcandle · October 17, 2015, 04:57:45 AM

There is no issue if you have lots of collateral if your a shorter. YOu need more than 3Xs.

tonyk · October 17, 2015, 04:49:45 AM

Quote from: lil_jay890 on October 17, 2015, 04:37:14 AM
Quote from: tonyk on October 17, 2015, 04:15:15 AM
Quote from: xeroc on October 17, 2015, 02:30:25 AM
Quote from: clout on October 17, 2015, 12:54:27 AM
Yeah that's bull. I'm pretty close to being done with bts. That's a bad rule. Honestly the bitasset market shouldn't be operational til yunbi and btc38 have upgraded
tell this to the witnesses .. I open a thread asking them not to publish feeds right after launch :-(

Anwyway .. in general the launch was a success and we only suffer liquidity .. those that pay the bill are the super bulls (me included) and that sucks .. still I am confident because I know the tech :D

You blame this to witnesses? Changing the rule to some idiotic rule? Give me a break man.

I know you are fan boy as much as the next guy...but changing the rules (without any notice) mind you to a rule that defines "I am as stupid as hell" ...

We should have known this shit was serious when bm brought it up during the mumble without even being asked...

haha
so if BM says "I want to talk about..."
you just sell?
I think this should have worked on any and all occasions. :)

Troglodactyl · October 17, 2015, 04:48:46 AM

Quote from: lil_jay890 on October 17, 2015, 04:37:14 AM
Quote from: tonyk on October 17, 2015, 04:15:15 AM
Quote from: xeroc on October 17, 2015, 02:30:25 AM
Quote from: clout on October 17, 2015, 12:54:27 AM
Yeah that's bull. I'm pretty close to being done with bts. That's a bad rule. Honestly the bitasset market shouldn't be operational til yunbi and btc38 have upgraded
tell this to the witnesses .. I open a thread asking them not to publish feeds right after launch :-(

Anwyway .. in general the launch was a success and we only suffer liquidity .. those that pay the bill are the super bulls (me included) and that sucks .. still I am confident because I know the tech :D

You blame this to witnesses? Changing the rule to some idiotic rule? Give me a break man.

I know you are fan boy as much as the next guy...but changing the rules (without any notice) mind you to a rule that defines "I am as stupid as hell" ...

We should have known this shit was serious when bm brought it up during the mumble without even being asked...

What did he say about it? I had to work (as usual) and couldn't be there.

lil_jay890 · October 17, 2015, 04:37:14 AM

Quote from: tonyk on October 17, 2015, 04:15:15 AM
Quote from: xeroc on October 17, 2015, 02:30:25 AM
Quote from: clout on October 17, 2015, 12:54:27 AM
Yeah that's bull. I'm pretty close to being done with bts. That's a bad rule. Honestly the bitasset market shouldn't be operational til yunbi and btc38 have upgraded
tell this to the witnesses .. I open a thread asking them not to publish feeds right after launch :-(

Anwyway .. in general the launch was a success and we only suffer liquidity .. those that pay the bill are the super bulls (me included) and that sucks .. still I am confident because I know the tech :D

You blame this to witnesses? Changing the rule to some idiotic rule? Give me a break man.

I know you are fan boy as much as the next guy...but changing the rules (without any notice) mind you to a rule that defines "I am as stupid as hell" ...

We should have known this shit was serious when bm brought it up during the mumble without even being asked...

alt · October 17, 2015, 04:21:17 AM

Quote from: ag on October 17, 2015, 04:03:33 AM
people can sell their bitAssets for bts then dump on poloniex for like 135% return. maybe bts price will continue to fall short term?

fall until all bitasset disapear, all short position be murdered.
and I have a warnning, don't borrow bitasset to buy cheap BTS, you'll be the next shorter be murdered.

another way to end this is pump the price from poloniex, keep all shorter safe. but still nobody dare to borrow bitasset again.

bitUSD will never have a black swan, because it will disapear.

tonyk · October 17, 2015, 04:15:15 AM

Quote from: xeroc on October 17, 2015, 02:30:25 AM
Quote from: clout on October 17, 2015, 12:54:27 AM
Yeah that's bull. I'm pretty close to being done with bts. That's a bad rule. Honestly the bitasset market shouldn't be operational til yunbi and btc38 have upgraded
tell this to the witnesses .. I open a thread asking them not to publish feeds right after launch :-(

Anwyway .. in general the launch was a success and we only suffer liquidity .. those that pay the bill are the super bulls (me included) and that sucks .. still I am confident because I know the tech :D

You blame this to witnesses? Changing the rule to some idiotic rule? Give me a break man.

I know you are fan boy as much as the next guy...but changing the rules (without any notice) mind you to a rule that defines "I am as stupid as hell" ...

ag · October 17, 2015, 04:03:33 AM

people can sell their bitAssets for bts then dump on poloniex for like 135% return. maybe bts price will continue to fall short term?

topcandle · October 17, 2015, 03:16:49 AM

So liquidity is causing this problem? How do we fix?