IOTA + Bitshares

[mr-whitekey]

Where are we with this project? I have seen very few updates.

[xeroc]

IOTA update:


It has been awhile since our preliminary discussions about potential overlap and collaboration with the Bitshares community. In the past 6 months we have been dilligently developing, testing and optimizing the world's first blockless blockchain with zero fees for IoT, but our vision for unifying the different ledgers is just as strong as it was back in late 2015.

If anyone from Bitshares is still interested in discussions about collaboration, let us know, and check out the new website www.iotatoken.com :)

Thank you very much for the update. I do have two questions:

- Do I understand it right that your consensus mechanism is probabilistic, such that you can say "this 'block' will be permanent with a probability of p(confirmations or weight)"?
- What gives your token value if you are not asking for a fee? Why would I want to buy into this?

[iota]

IOTA update:


It has been awhile since our preliminary discussions about potential overlap and collaboration with the Bitshares community. In the past 6 months we have been dilligently developing, testing and optimizing the world's first blockless blockchain with zero fees for IoT, but our vision for unifying the different ledgers is just as strong as it was back in late 2015.

If anyone from Bitshares is still interested in discussions about collaboration, let us know, and check out the new website www.iotatoken.com :)

[Erlich Bachman]

I just had an idea.

Why don't we trade an IOTA UIA on the BTS chain as a way grow the community!?

I can't believe I'm the only person to ever think of this?

I'll chip in some, but  I'm not computer savy, or as reputable as someone like Stan.

We do want to grow the community right?

[Akado]

It's official IOTA will be partnering with Microsoft's Azure Blockchain as a Service project

This is part of the news that I have been alluding to in the last week, and more details will be made available soon. We are really excited and happy to join Microsoft in their endeavor to be on the forefront of distributed ledgers and cloud technology.

More exciting news on the horizon

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1216479.msg14052128#msg14052128

Before Bitshares, incredible. Congratulations'

[vlight]

It's official IOTA will be partnering with Microsoft's Azure Blockchain as a Service project

This is part of the news that I have been alluding to in the last week, and more details will be made available soon. We are really excited and happy to join Microsoft in their endeavor to be on the forefront of distributed ledgers and cloud technology.

More exciting news on the horizon

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1216479.msg14052128#msg14052128

[cass]

The last day of the IOTA crowdsale is here! At 23:59 / 11:59 PM UTC the crowdsale is over. So far we have raised 850+ BTC and 41 000+ JINN tokens (~250 BTC), so half a million dollars from 400+ People!

congratz

[DMo09]

 +5%
Thanks and good luck! 

[iota]

The last day of the IOTA crowdsale is here! At 23:59 / 11:59 PM UTC the crowdsale is over. So far we have raised 850+ BTC and 41 000+ JINN tokens (~250 BTC), so half a million dollars from 400+ People!

Looking forward to collaborating with Bitshares when you guys are ready!

[iota]

Just letting everyone know that there's 2 days left of the 'Early Adopter' period where you get 7.5% more IOTA for your btc. Like Ronny mentioned there'll be more coverage soon!

[openledger]

thank you very much. Good luck with the project!
Looking forward to a nice collaboration in the future with bitshares.

Thanks, we too. The ball is largely in your (Bitshares') Court. We've been open and ready to discuss collaboration and overlap for weeks, so just let us know when you guys are ready :)

Also: IOTA's first sale period, 'Pioneer', is ending today at 14:00 UTC. This period yields 15% more IOTA to the purchaser.

So far we've raised over 460 BTC and 35 000 JINN (equivalent to ~220BTC)

I highly recommend that you join in our weekly meeting via mumble  this Friday 10am EST.  Bytemaster will be there talking and sharing with a number of community members.

Mumble details - https://beyondbitcoin.org/mumbleinfo/

Agreed. Please join our mumble

cant wait to include IOTA in connection with Bitteaser and their payment transactions as a use case next weeks Forbes article, warming up to a bigger article with IOTA on OpenLedger, that would be cool, so I hope Bytemaster will find a way to connect this asap.

[mike623317]

thank you very much. Good luck with the project!
Looking forward to a nice collaboration in the future with bitshares.

Thanks, we too. The ball is largely in your (Bitshares') Court. We've been open and ready to discuss collaboration and overlap for weeks, so just let us know when you guys are ready :)

Also: IOTA's first sale period, 'Pioneer', is ending today at 14:00 UTC. This period yields 15% more IOTA to the purchaser.

So far we've raised over 460 BTC and 35 000 JINN (equivalent to ~220BTC)

I highly recommend that you join in our weekly meeting via mumble  this Friday 10am EST.  Bytemaster will be there talking and sharing with a number of community members.

Mumble details - https://beyondbitcoin.org/mumbleinfo/

Agreed. Please join our mumble

[cube]

thank you very much. Good luck with the project!
Looking forward to a nice collaboration in the future with bitshares.

Thanks, we too. The ball is largely in your (Bitshares') Court. We've been open and ready to discuss collaboration and overlap for weeks, so just let us know when you guys are ready :)

Also: IOTA's first sale period, 'Pioneer', is ending today at 14:00 UTC. This period yields 15% more IOTA to the purchaser.

So far we've raised over 460 BTC and 35 000 JINN (equivalent to ~220BTC)

I highly recommend that you join in our weekly meeting via mumble  this Friday 10am EST.  Bytemaster will be there talking and sharing with a number of community members.

Mumble details - https://beyondbitcoin.org/mumbleinfo/

[iota]

thank you very much. Good luck with the project!
Looking forward to a nice collaboration in the future with bitshares.

Thanks, we too. The ball is largely in your (Bitshares') Court. We've been open and ready to discuss collaboration and overlap for weeks, so just let us know when you guys are ready :)

Also: IOTA's first sale period, 'Pioneer', is ending today at 14:00 UTC. This period yields 15% more IOTA to the purchaser.

So far we've raised over 460 BTC and 35 000 JINN (equivalent to ~220BTC)

[mf-tzo]

thank you very much. Good luck with the project!
Looking forward to a nice collaboration in the future with bitshares.

[iota]

@iota I am sure this has been answered somewhere but can you please advise:

1. Once the crowfunding ends tokens will be distributed and available for trading in exchanges?
2. What is your estimation of when the project would complete and these token actually serve at something?

Thank you very much!

1. Yes, if exchanges choose to add it
2. 1-2 months, depending on whether there are any problems with testlaunch

[mf-tzo]

@iota I am sure this has been answered somewhere but can you please advise:

1. Once the crowfunding ends tokens will be distributed and available for trading in exchanges?
2. What is your estimation of when the project would complete and these token actually serve at something?

Thank you very much!

[iota]

Tobo's answer is correct:)

[santaclause102]

Crowdsale is live https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1262688

Why would these tokens have value to encourage people to buy them? On the other hand if its a donation then I can understand.

Because it's the first cryptographical token ever that is suited for IoT, the biggest technological market in history. No it's not a donation, donations does not work, it would undermine the economy.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1262688.msg13101024#msg13101024

[iota]

Crowdsale is live https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1262688

Why would these tokens have value to encourage people to buy them? On the other hand if its a donation then I can understand.

Because it's the first cryptographical token ever that is suited for IoT, the biggest technological market in history. No it's not a donation, donations does not work, it would undermine the economy.

[luckybit]

Crowdsale is live https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1262688

Why would these tokens have value to encourage people to buy them? On the other hand if its a donation then I can understand.

[iota]

Crowdsale is live https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1262688

Would you be willing to accept bitUSD and BTS too?  Honestly between bitUSD, BTC and BTS...bitUSD is the least volatile.  :)

Sadly it would be unfair to the rest of the different crypto communities whom have had to convert their currency to bitcoin. We considered all these options pre-sale and decided that the simplest way is to just accept BTC. But thanks for the suggestion:)

[fuzzy]

Crowdsale is live https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1262688

Would you be willing to accept bitUSD and BTS too?  Honestly between bitUSD, BTC and BTS...bitUSD is the least volatile.  :)

[iota]

Crowdsale is live https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1262688

[iota]

@bytemaster Keep me posted. I got you on Skype now, so just let me know when you are available for discussions

@fuzzy  thanks for the offer! Will contact you on Thursday so we can discuss it. If my schedule allows it we could perhaps do a hangout on Friday

In the meanwhile: https://medium.com/p/iota-97592581f985

[fuzzy]

New article: https://bitscan.com/articles/all-about-iota-microtransactions-and-the-iot

Still awaiting to have convo with Dan about IOTA + Bitshares overlap

This could be worth a mumble @fuzzy

Id love to hold one.  Id also love to tell you guys and gals that you are more than welcome to hold your own hangouts and hand out your own tokens to attendees :)

[Akado]

New article: https://bitscan.com/articles/all-about-iota-microtransactions-and-the-iot

Still awaiting to have convo with Dan about IOTA + Bitshares overlap

This could be worth a mumble @fuzzy

[bytemaster]

New article: https://bitscan.com/articles/all-about-iota-microtransactions-and-the-iot

Still awaiting to have convo with Dan about IOTA + Bitshares overlap

We are still working through our business model/documenting the ideas. 

[iota]

New article: https://bitscan.com/articles/all-about-iota-microtransactions-and-the-iot

Still awaiting to have convo with Dan about IOTA + Bitshares overlap

[iota]

I have just skimmed the paper and must say that it has some very innovative ideas that are very similar to some a white paper I am writing.  I reference your paper by mine.

I think there is potential for IOTA and CNX to work together on providing the best possible technology for micro-transactions.   As I mentioned on Mumble today, our internal project codenamed Plasma is aiming to make transactions free and instant and thus perfect for micro transactions. 

There are just a few nuggets of inspiration missing from IOTA that when fused by Plasma will amplify your system.   

Once I complete the white paper I think you will be very excited to work with us on standardization.

When will this paper be done?

Also check your inbox;)

[liondani]

PS - this is why I also like Siacoin so much because Sia is building a similar marketplace for the cloud storage industry. Sorry for trying to sell your another coin. :)

I "studied" SIA a lot and I can understand your excitement. I have many times dreamed bts2.0 will somehow collaborate with SIA ...  (I think they have more potential than Storj and Maidsafe)

Why do you think sia have more potential than storj and maidsafe?

Storj seems make good progress.

Maidsafe seems doing things more similiar to Iota.

see what maidsafe,storj.sia have accomplished and in what time-frame... compare their marketcaps...
and decide by yourself which has more potential... (I strongly advice to compare the github commits of each project...)

[monsterer]

What is oracle?

Exogenous data source.

E.g. feed price

[iota]

If there is no mining, how can the node benifit from runing a pow node?

Benefit comes from ability to send transactions.

Basiclly, can you tell how many roles there and how they act and why they join.

One role. Cooperation with peers gives benefits to every participant, this is why they will join.

the motivation for parties to run the nodes is to be able to enjoy a free and efficient marketplace. The parties either have lots of data available to sell or want to buy lots of data or both. But they can't trade their data without Iota because it is either too expensive to trade these kind data in a regular market or there is no place to trade at all. Therefore, the parties will waste their data (income resources) if they don't participate (running nodes because they need to stay online all time to look for trading partners) in a marketplace enabled by Iota. That is  the motivation, namely the opportunity to make profit and money.  It is the ultimate motivation for business activities.

A not very good analogy is uber and airbab markets. Before uber and airbab, those individuals who participate in uber and airbnb could not have the opportunities to offer their services to other people to make money for themselves because there either no such kind market or too expernsive for them to offer their service in the old marketplace. But with the marketplaces enabled by uber and airbnb they can.

PS - this is why I also like Siacoin so much because Sia is building a similar marketplace for the cloud storage industry. Sorry for trying to sell your another coin. :)

Thanks for answering.
So Iota may be suitable for resources like  music, books or bandwidth.
And how Iota help with intermet of things? Such as a teethbruch can connect to the internet, and collect and analysis my teech health. How can Iota help in this process?

Ps: I know sia, and I am a stake holder of sia. (Not the coin, but the note)

(Please move Sia convo to another topic)

As for how IOTA can help With IoT: http://cointelegraph.com/news/115508/iota-a-blockchain-less-gasp-token-for-the-internet-of-things

[xiahui135]

PS - this is why I also like Siacoin so much because Sia is building a similar marketplace for the cloud storage industry. Sorry for trying to sell your another coin. :)

I "studied" SIA a lot and I can understand your excitement. I have many times dreamed bts2.0 will somehow collaborate with SIA ...  (I think they have more potential than Storj and Maidsafe)

Why do you think sia have more potential than storj and maidsafe?

Storj seems make good progress.

Maidsafe seems doing things more similiar to Iota.

[xiahui135]

If there is no mining, how can the node benifit from runing a pow node?

Benefit comes from ability to send transactions.

Basiclly, can you tell how many roles there and how they act and why they join.

One role. Cooperation with peers gives benefits to every participant, this is why they will join.

the motivation for parties to run the nodes is to be able to enjoy a free and efficient marketplace. The parties either have lots of data available to sell or want to buy lots of data or both. But they can't trade their data without Iota because it is either too expensive to trade these kind data in a regular market or there is no place to trade at all. Therefore, the parties will waste their data (income resources) if they don't participate (running nodes because they need to stay online all time to look for trading partners) in a marketplace enabled by Iota. That is  the motivation, namely the opportunity to make profit and money.  It is the ultimate motivation for business activities.

A not very good analogy is uber and airbab markets. Before uber and airbab, those individuals who participate in uber and airbnb could not have the opportunities to offer their services to other people to make money for themselves because there either no such kind market or too expernsive for them to offer their service in the old marketplace. But with the marketplaces enabled by uber and airbnb they can.

PS - this is why I also like Siacoin so much because Sia is building a similar marketplace for the cloud storage industry. Sorry for trying to sell your another coin. :)

Thanks for answering.
So Iota may be suitable for resources like  music, books or bandwidth.
And how Iota help with intermet of things? Such as a teethbruch can connect to the internet, and collect and analysis my teech health. How can Iota help in this process?

Ps: I know sia, and I am a stake holder of sia. (Not the coin, but the note)

[Come-from-Beyond]

What is oracle?

Something that tells facts happened outside of tangle/blockchain.

[Tobo]

No, it's still not clear how popular oracle feature will be. Yes.

What is oracle?

[liondani]

PS - this is why I also like Siacoin so much because Sia is building a similar marketplace for the cloud storage industry. Sorry for trying to sell your another coin. :)

I "studied" SIA a lot and I can understand your excitement. I have many times dreamed bts2.0 will somehow collaborate with SIA ...  (I think they have more potential than Storj and Maidsafe)

[Tobo]

The details are quite challenging to explain in layman terms.  But if you are an experienced programmer it will be easier to grasp. In short: Iota client doesn't need to order transactions, it doesn't need to track balances, it doesn't need to validate transactions most of time except lightning-fast verification of a PoW token.

That is why you should consider to hire a technical write to convey the complicated concept to the public in layman term. They  can do magic work some time.

[Tobo]

If there is no mining, how can the node benifit from runing a pow node?

Benefit comes from ability to send transactions.

Basiclly, can you tell how many roles there and how they act and why they join.

One role. Cooperation with peers gives benefits to every participant, this is why they will join.

the motivation for parties to run the nodes is to be able to enjoy a free and efficient marketplace. The parties either have lots of data available to sell or want to buy lots of data or both. But they can't trade their data without Iota because it is either too expensive to trade these kind data in a regular market or there is no place to trade at all. Therefore, the parties will waste their data (income resources) if they don't participate (running nodes because they need to stay online all time to look for trading partners) in a marketplace enabled by Iota. That is  the motivation, namely the opportunity to make profit and money.  It is the ultimate motivation for business activities.

A not very good analogy is uber and airbab markets. Before uber and airbab, those individuals who participate in uber and airbnb could not have the opportunities to offer their services to other people to make money for themselves because there either no such kind market or too expernsive for them to offer their service in the old marketplace. But with the marketplaces enabled by uber and airbnb they can.

PS - this is why I also like Siacoin so much because Sia is building a similar marketplace for the cloud storage industry. Sorry for trying to sell your another coin. :)

[70231f697a2b3c2b]

Thanks @mthcl and @Come-from-Beyond for the extra context!  I've (myself) never seen a system like Tangle before; very interested to see where this goes.

[tbone]

This sounds very promising.

[ebit]

 I got your back

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

I have just skimmed the paper and must say that it has some very innovative ideas that are very similar to some a white paper I am writing.  I reference your paper by mine.

I think there is potential for IOTA and CNX to work together on providing the best possible technology for micro-transactions.   As I mentioned on Mumble today, our internal project codenamed Plasma is aiming to make transactions free and instant and thus perfect for micro transactions. 

There are just a few nuggets of inspiration missing from IOTA that when fused by Plasma will amplify your system.   

Once I complete the white paper I think you will be very excited to work with us on standardization.

+5%

[yellowecho]

I have just skimmed the paper and must say that it has some very innovative ideas that are very similar to some a white paper I am writing.  I reference your paper by mine.

I think there is potential for IOTA and CNX to work together on providing the best possible technology for micro-transactions.   As I mentioned on Mumble today, our internal project codenamed Plasma is aiming to make transactions free and instant and thus perfect for micro transactions. 

There are just a few nuggets of inspiration missing from IOTA that when fused by Plasma will amplify your system.   

Once I complete the white paper I think you will be very excited to work with us on standardization.

+5%

[DestBest]

I have just skimmed the paper and must say that it has some very innovative ideas that are very similar to some a white paper I am writing.  I reference your paper by mine.

I think there is potential for IOTA and CNX to work together on providing the best possible technology for micro-transactions.   As I mentioned on Mumble today, our internal project codenamed Plasma is aiming to make transactions free and instant and thus perfect for micro transactions. 

There are just a few nuggets of inspiration missing from IOTA that when fused by Plasma will amplify your system.   

Once I complete the white paper I think you will be very excited to work with us on standardization.   

[bytemaster]

I have just skimmed the paper and must say that it has some very innovative ideas that are very similar to some a white paper I am writing.  I reference your paper by mine.

I think there is potential for IOTA and CNX to work together on providing the best possible technology for micro-transactions.   As I mentioned on Mumble today, our internal project codenamed Plasma is aiming to make transactions free and instant and thus perfect for micro transactions. 

There are just a few nuggets of inspiration missing from IOTA that when fused by Plasma will amplify your system.   

Once I complete the white paper I think you will be very excited to work with us on standardization.   

[Come-from-Beyond]

Does the DAG get pruned?  Do transactions have inputs and outputs similar to Bitcoin?

No, it's still not clear how popular oracle feature will be. Yes.

[mthcl]

Hi all,

I'm the author of that "Tangle" paper. Answering:

1. To approve means to reference or to confirm; that is, you have to cite these 2 tx' in order to issue yours. It is a good strategy to check if the 2 tx's you reference are not in conflict; otherwise, you risk that others won't approve your tx.

2. similar to bitcoin, i.e., finding a nonce that gives hash with N zeros in front

3. correct.

4. yes, exactly

5. yes. We are modifying the approval strategy, though, as the current design can be gamed.

6. yes (modulo the previous comment)

7. yes. Against (b), there is no other defence but to cap the tx own weight (or even set it to constant)

--------------

Does the DAG get pruned?

Do transactions have inputs and outputs similar to Bitcoin?

CfB is a better person to answer that.

in the event that two transactions reference the same inputs, the one with the larger cumulative weight wins?

yes, exactly

[BTSdac]

I want to say it again, don't give up micro-transactions.

yes I think so , it is very important thing now , so let us reduce the transfer fee now

[70231f697a2b3c2b]

Reading through the whitepaper now.

Could you help me wrap my brain around the concepts?  Here's what I think I understand so far:

--

1. When a new transaction is broadcast to become a tip, it must approve two existing transactions.  What does it mean to approve an existing transaction?  Is it similar in concept to generating a block hash in Bitcoin?

2. Section 2 indicates that a node may invest a variable amount of work into creating the transaction (ultimately resulting in an own weight value that is equal to a power of 3).  What is the nature of the work?  Again using Bitcoin concepts, would this be similar to voluntarily using a higher/lower difficulty when computing the block hash?

3. Each transaction has 2 different weights and a height:
  a. Its own weight, which is determined by the amount of work that was invested into creating it (see question 2 above).
  b. Its cumulative weight, which is determined by summing the own weights of all of the transactions that approve it, plus the own weight of the transaction itself.  Conceptually, you could think of this like tracing all of the paths from that transaction to the tips and adding up all of the own weights of the transactions that you encounter along the way.
  c. Its height, which is determined by summing up the own weights of all the transactions that it approves, plus the own weight of the transaction itself.  Conceptually, you could think of this like tracing all of the paths from that transaction all the way to the genesis block and adding up the own weights of the transactions that you encounter along the way.

4. A new tip is allowed to approve any two existing transactions at any height(s), but it is more valuable to the network if incoming transactions approve other tips with the highest possible height, in order to ensure that new transactions get confirmed, correct?  Is that the problem being addressed in section 3?

5. Unlike, say, Bitcoin, you don't try to entice the network to include your transaction by including a transaction fee; instead you try to ensure that your transaction's height is within the top xx% of all tips in the network, so that it is more likely that other nodes will prefer to approve your transaction.

6. If your transaction's height isn't enough, you could try to increase it by generating empty transaction(s) that approve it.
  a. The new transaction(s) have a larger height than the original one, and if they also approve another tip with a large height (recall that each transaction must approve exactly 2 others), then that could be enough to bump the new transaction into the coveted "top xx%" subset.
  b. If more work is invested into the empty transaction(s), this also increases their height values (because the transaction's own weight is included in its height).

7. A double spend could theoretically be carried out against the network in one of two ways:
  a. An attacker spams the network with a massive number of new transactions approving the double-spend transaction and not the legitimate transaction (even indirectly).
  b. An attacker submits a new transaction with a huge own weight (by investing lots of work into it) that approves the double-spend transaction and not the legitimate transaction.

If either attack succeeds, the network builds on the transactions from the double-spend, orphaning the the part of the DAG where the legitimate transaction resides.

It is not clear to me, though, what that actually looks like.  Does the DAG get pruned?  Do transactions have inputs and outputs similar to Bitcoin, and in the event that two transactions reference the same inputs, the one with the larger cumulative weight wins?

[iota]

Hello,

I'm David from the IOTA project (www.iotatoken.com). In short: iota is a lightweight, blockless micro-transactions token aimed specifically at Internet-of-Things (IoT). My co-founder, Come-from-Beyond, posed a few questions here a couple weeks back regarding Bitshares 2.0 and micro-transactions in this thread: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,18784.0.html

It seems that Bitshares is not aiming for micro-transactions and instead focusing on its strengths. One of IOTA's goals is to find overlap and collaborate with the serious blockchain projects as we see no reason to 'compete', instead we rather compliment the blockchain projects.

I am opening this thread to start discussion about how IOTA and Bitshares can find  some overlapping use-cases which will benefit both projects.

Did you already talk with @ccedk , @stan , @bytemaster ?

We all love micro-transactions  +5%

I have spoken with Ronny (CCEDK) and Dan Notestein about it yes and initiated some conversation about overlap between iota and bitshares. As for Stan and Bytemaster, I have sent both a PM a couple of days ago, no reply thus far, but I suppose this is due to them being very busy and will get around to it soon enough:)

[DestBest]

Hello,

I'm David from the IOTA project (www.iotatoken.com). In short: iota is a lightweight, blockless micro-transactions token aimed specifically at Internet-of-Things (IoT). My co-founder, Come-from-Beyond, posed a few questions here a couple weeks back regarding Bitshares 2.0 and micro-transactions in this thread: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,18784.0.html

It seems that Bitshares is not aiming for micro-transactions and instead focusing on its strengths. One of IOTA's goals is to find overlap and collaborate with the serious blockchain projects as we see no reason to 'compete', instead we rather compliment the blockchain projects.

I am opening this thread to start discussion about how IOTA and Bitshares can find  some overlapping use-cases which will benefit both projects.

Did you already talk with @ccedk , @stan , @bytemaster ?

We all love micro-transactions  +5%

[iota]

Looks interesting.  Have you also looked at RaiCoin? https://github.com/clemahieu/raiblocks/wiki  They seem to have similar goals.

No, this one is new to me. I'll have a look.

As an exchange, BitShares generally needs single threaded transaction sequencing, which is abandoned in both IOTA and RaiBlocks to optimize for microtransactions.  I certainly think an offchain microtransaction could be complementary to BitShares.  Ideally a trustless integration system would be desirable, but the easiest way to get functional integration initially would just be to get IOUs for your tokens issued by CCEDK, blocktrades.us, and MetaExchange on BitShares.

This would not be possible for machine-to-machine payments on a grand (IoT) scale which needs to be as trustless as possible, Instant and automatic.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Who will do the pow work?

Payment benefactor or beneficiary. Anyone can do it.

If there is no mining, how can the node benifit from runing a pow node?

Benefit comes from ability to send transactions.

Or it is not decentralised?

It is decentralized.

Basiclly, can you tell how many roles there and how they act and why they join.

One role. Cooperation with peers gives benefits to every participant, this is why they will join.

[xiahui135]

Thanks for the warm welcome everyone!

Welcome David. Your website looks very nice and the project sounds very intriguing. Would you mind explaining a little bit about the governance architecture of IOTA please? How trust in the system established and maintained?

Thanks for the kinds words.
For sure, so in IOTA there is no mining and there are no fees, instead transactions are confirmed by very lightweight PoW which is established by an unique alloy of techniques whose combination gives an unprecedented result. If you have read the whitepaper you will get a better idea. The details are quite challenging to explain in layman terms.  But if you are an experienced programmer it will be easier to grasp. In short: Iota client doesn't need to order transactions, it doesn't need to track balances, it doesn't need to validate transactions most of time except lightning-fast verification of a PoW token.

If you have any specific technical questions we'll try to answer them as clear as possible

thanks for explaining. I have several question.

Who will do the pow work? If there is no mining, how can the node benifit from runing a pow node? Or it is not decentralised?

Basiclly, can you tell how many roles there and how they act and why they join.

[Troglodactyl]

I want to say it again, don't give up micro-transactions.

That's why collaboration is great. As a product designer you quickly learn that by trying to create a swiss army knife that has an application for 'everything' you will always end up with only mediocre solutions to each of these things. This is like a law of product development called 'Feature Creep' (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feature_creep). By introducing ever more features and applications you invariably have to do trade-offs, this is fine for a swiss army knife which's design is not to be the best knife, cork opener, scissor, file or anything else, but to be 'acceptable' in as many different environments as possible. However it is not fine for a chef's knife or a hair dresser's scissor.

This is a recurring problem in product design, especially software and I see it happen all the time in crypto too. Each platform wants to be *the* 'universal key' that solves all problems. But that's just not doable. This is why we elected  to keep IOTA the absolute best solution possible for micro-payments instead of trying to add more and more and more features and end up with a mediocre micro-payments design as a consequence.

Looks interesting.  Have you also looked at RaiCoin? https://github.com/clemahieu/raiblocks/wiki  They seem to have similar goals.

As an exchange, BitShares generally needs single threaded transaction sequencing, which is abandoned in both IOTA and RaiBlocks to optimize for microtransactions.  I certainly think an offchain microtransaction could be complementary to BitShares.  Ideally a trustless integration system would be desirable, but the easiest way to get functional integration initially would just be to get IOUs for your tokens issued by CCEDK, blocktrades.us, and MetaExchange on BitShares.

[ebit]

I think Bitcoin or Ethereum is perfect for IOT.
Tilepay is follow them.
Or learn to create a new blockchain from gadgetcoin.
If you like bitshares's blockchain ,you can have a fork like muse.
We all  interested in snapshot .

[santaclause102]

It can strengthen these blockchains' security by providing checkpoints and also act as an oracle for smart contracts.

(quote from your iota website)
This sounds interesting and could be a revenue stream for you because all (I guess) that is needed for launcing betting /prediciton markets and private bitassets (stable crypto currencies) is a price / data feed.
Could you explain how IOTA would work as an oracle?

[iota]

I want to say it again, don't give up micro-transactions.

That's why collaboration is great. As a product designer you quickly learn that by trying to create a swiss army knife that has an application for 'everything' you will always end up with only mediocre solutions to each of these things. This is like a law of product development called 'Feature Creep' (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feature_creep). By introducing ever more features and applications you invariably have to do trade-offs, this is fine for a swiss army knife which's design is not to be the best knife, cork opener, scissor, file or anything else, but to be 'acceptable' in as many different environments as possible. However it is not fine for a chef's knife or a hair dresser's scissor.

This is a recurring problem in product design, especially software and I see it happen all the time in crypto too. Each platform wants to be *the* 'universal key' that solves all problems. But that's just not doable. This is why we elected  to keep IOTA the absolute best solution possible for micro-payments instead of trying to add more and more and more features and end up with a mediocre micro-payments design as a consequence.

[Ben Mason]

Thanks for the warm welcome everyone!

Welcome David. Your website looks very nice and the project sounds very intriguing. Would you mind explaining a little bit about the governance architecture of IOTA please? How trust in the system established and maintained?

Thanks for the kinds words.
For sure, so in IOTA there is no mining and there are no fees, instead transactions are confirmed by very lightweight PoW which is established by an unique alloy of techniques whose combination gives an unprecedented result. If you have read the whitepaper you will get a better idea. The details are quite challenging to explain in layman terms.  But if you are an experienced programmer it will be easier to grasp. In short: Iota client doesn't need to order transactions, it doesn't need to track balances, it doesn't need to validate transactions most of time except lightning-fast verification of a PoW token.

If you have any specific technical questions we'll try to answer them as clear as possible

I'm afraid i'm not a programmer...maybe one day!  I will indeed read the whitepaper, however, what i'm getting at is how your system ensures transaction processors remain honest?  If you could articulate this concept in as simple terms as possible, i would very much appreciate it.

[luckybit]

Hello,

I'm David from the IOTA project (www.iotatoken.com). In short: iota is a lightweight, blockless micro-transactions token aimed specifically at Internet-of-Things (IoT). My co-founder, Come-from-Beyond, posed a few questions here a couple weeks back regarding Bitshares 2.0 and micro-transactions in this thread: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,18784.0.html

It seems that Bitshares is not aiming for micro-transactions and instead focusing on its strengths. One of IOTA's goals is to find overlap and collaborate with the serious blockchain projects as we see no reason to 'compete', instead we rather compliment the blockchain projects.

I am opening this thread to start discussion about how IOTA and Bitshares can find  some overlapping use-cases which will benefit both projects.

Come From Beyond is a prolific Bitcointalk personality. I've interacted with the person before on several occasions. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=46556

My thoughts are that microtransactions may be possible through payment channels or something like off-chain transactions, but due to the necessarily higher than average transaction fees and the design of Bitshares to be a decentralized exchange it might not be as good at doing on-chain microtransactions.

This is a disappointment to me because I think microtransactions are critical to getting more people and things into the economy, but I also realize that it's not really about what I want. It's about what is best for Bitshares in the here and now.

Bitshares at this time needs to focus on being a good exchange more than it needs to focus on handling microtransactions or being a good digital currency service. Centralized exchanges keep getting hacked or arbitrarily shut down. Microtransactions could still be possible even with an optimized Bitshares, but it's a question of how.

Well...seraph just had a great proposal to ensure that many of the Crypto-based tokens that are exchanged on bts would also be backed by the actual tokens (like peercoin, quark, litecoin...etc).

People didn't seem interested in it...so I'm not sure how that is going to happen until we are all willing to sacrifice a little to make sure amazing things are built for bts' ecosystem :/

TradeBTC is backed right? The issue is the gateway services or anything backing something else represents a risk, and requires some sort of legal structures with compliance so people can know for certain they'll get real tokens.

Generally, I don't see why we need the tokens to be backed by anything real because IOUs can trade millions of times virtually before someone decides to withdraw. The withdraw should trade their virtual IOU for actual tokens. I think this is the most dangerous and risky part of the whole process because what if the person runs off with the IOUs and doesn't provide the Peercoins?

So I would say we'd be better off approaching big regulated companies like Coinbase so they can offer CoinbaseBTC so people can trade 1:1 bitBTC for CoinbaseBTC. It's not an advantage to trade real BTC around.

[iota]

Thanks for the warm welcome everyone!

Welcome David. Your website looks very nice and the project sounds very intriguing. Would you mind explaining a little bit about the governance architecture of IOTA please? How trust in the system established and maintained?

Thanks for the kinds words.
For sure, so in IOTA there is no mining and there are no fees, instead transactions are confirmed by very lightweight PoW which is established by an unique alloy of techniques whose combination gives an unprecedented result. If you have read the whitepaper you will get a better idea. The details are quite challenging to explain in layman terms.  But if you are an experienced programmer it will be easier to grasp. In short: Iota client doesn't need to order transactions, it doesn't need to track balances, it doesn't need to validate transactions most of time except lightning-fast verification of a PoW token.

If you have any specific technical questions we'll try to answer them as clear as possible

[xeroc]

Arent IOUs fees adjustable by the issuer? I thought they were and that they could make them as low as possible. If thats True, any business can create a business.usd iou lile bitstamp.usd, back it by showing proof of an account sith the same amount of bitusd for transparency's sake and then that same business can provode us with microtransactions.

The network fee has to be payed by someone .. either by the customers or by whoever pays into the fee pool ..

[Akado]

Arent IOUs fees adjustable by the issuer? I thought they were and that they could make them as low as possible. If thats True, any business can create a business.usd iou lile bitstamp.usd, back it by showing proof of an account sith the same amount of bitusd for transparency's sake and then that same business can provode us with microtransactions.

[testz]

Hello,

I'm David from the IOTA project (www.iotatoken.com). In short: iota is a lightweight, blockless micro-transactions token aimed specifically at Internet-of-Things (IoT). My co-founder, Come-from-Beyond, posed a few questions here a couple weeks back regarding Bitshares 2.0 and micro-transactions in this thread: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,18784.0.html

It seems that Bitshares is not aiming for micro-transactions and instead focusing on its strengths. One of IOTA's goals is to find overlap and collaborate with the serious blockchain projects as we see no reason to 'compete', instead we rather compliment the blockchain projects.

I am opening this thread to start discussion about how IOTA and Bitshares can find  some overlapping use-cases which will benefit both projects.

Come From Beyond is a prolific Bitcointalk personality. I've interacted with the person before on several occasions. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=46556

My thoughts are that microtransactions may be possible through payment channels or something like off-chain transactions, but due to the necessarily higher than average transaction fees and the design of Bitshares to be a decentralized exchange it might not be as good at doing on-chain microtransactions.

This is a disappointment to me because I think microtransactions are critical to getting more people and things into the economy, but I also realize that it's not really about what I want. It's about what is best for Bitshares in the here and now.

Bitshares at this time needs to focus on being a good exchange more than it needs to focus on handling microtransactions or being a good digital currency service. Centralized exchanges keep getting hacked or arbitrarily shut down. Microtransactions could still be possible even with an optimized Bitshares, but it's a question of how.

As an idea, microtransactions can be implemented in BitShares by cointing time of last transaction to/from specific address and if configurable amount of time was passed since last transaction for to and from accounts, let's say 10 minutes for example, fee for this transaction can be 0. Next transaction within 10 minures will get regular network fee. So this will allow to send microtransactions at least once in 10 minutes. This also prevent network spamming, because spammer will need to register many account, which also cost money or send small transactions from different accounts to different existing network members.
As additional limitation microtransactions can be allowed only for lifetime members and only for BTS and market pegged assets.

[fuzzy]

Hello,

I'm David from the IOTA project (www.iotatoken.com). In short: iota is a lightweight, blockless micro-transactions token aimed specifically at Internet-of-Things (IoT). My co-founder, Come-from-Beyond, posed a few questions here a couple weeks back regarding Bitshares 2.0 and micro-transactions in this thread: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,18784.0.html

It seems that Bitshares is not aiming for micro-transactions and instead focusing on its strengths. One of IOTA's goals is to find overlap and collaborate with the serious blockchain projects as we see no reason to 'compete', instead we rather compliment the blockchain projects.

I am opening this thread to start discussion about how IOTA and Bitshares can find  some overlapping use-cases which will benefit both projects.

Come From Beyond is a prolific Bitcointalk personality. I've interacted with the person before on several occasions. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=46556

My thoughts are that microtransactions may be possible through payment channels or something like off-chain transactions, but due to the necessarily higher than average transaction fees and the design of Bitshares to be a decentralized exchange it might not be as good at doing on-chain microtransactions.

This is a disappointment to me because I think microtransactions are critical to getting more people and things into the economy, but I also realize that it's not really about what I want. It's about what is best for Bitshares in the here and now.

Bitshares at this time needs to focus on being a good exchange more than it needs to focus on handling microtransactions or being a good digital currency service. Centralized exchanges keep getting hacked or arbitrarily shut down. Microtransactions could still be possible even with an optimized Bitshares, but it's a question of how.

Well...seraph just had a great proposal to ensure that many of the Crypto-based tokens that are exchanged on bts would also be backed by the actual tokens (like peercoin, quark, litecoin...etc).

People didn't seem interested in it...so I'm not sure how that is going to happen until we are all willing to sacrifice a little to make sure amazing things are built for bts' ecosystem :/

[alt]

I want to say it again, don't give up micro-transactions.

[luckybit]

Hello,

I'm David from the IOTA project (www.iotatoken.com). In short: iota is a lightweight, blockless micro-transactions token aimed specifically at Internet-of-Things (IoT). My co-founder, Come-from-Beyond, posed a few questions here a couple weeks back regarding Bitshares 2.0 and micro-transactions in this thread: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,18784.0.html

It seems that Bitshares is not aiming for micro-transactions and instead focusing on its strengths. One of IOTA's goals is to find overlap and collaborate with the serious blockchain projects as we see no reason to 'compete', instead we rather compliment the blockchain projects.

I am opening this thread to start discussion about how IOTA and Bitshares can find  some overlapping use-cases which will benefit both projects.

Come From Beyond is a prolific Bitcointalk personality. I've interacted with the person before on several occasions. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=46556

My thoughts are that microtransactions may be possible through payment channels or something like off-chain transactions, but due to the necessarily higher than average transaction fees and the design of Bitshares to be a decentralized exchange it might not be as good at doing on-chain microtransactions.

This is a disappointment to me because I think microtransactions are critical to getting more people and things into the economy, but I also realize that it's not really about what I want. It's about what is best for Bitshares in the here and now.

Bitshares at this time needs to focus on being a good exchange more than it needs to focus on handling microtransactions or being a good digital currency service. Centralized exchanges keep getting hacked or arbitrarily shut down. Microtransactions could still be possible even with an optimized Bitshares, but it's a question of how.

[fuzzy]

Welcome David. Your website looks very nice and the project sounds very intriguing. Would you mind explaining a little bit about the governance architecture of IOTA please? How trust in the system established and maintained?

+5%

[Ben Mason]

Welcome David. Your website looks very nice and the project sounds very intriguing. Would you mind explaining a little bit about the governance architecture of IOTA please? How trust in the system established and maintained?

[liondani]

welcome

[testz]

Welcome aboard.  +5%

[mike623317]

That sounds interesting. Welcome aboard.
M

[iota]

Hello,

I'm David from the IOTA project (www.iotatoken.com). In short: iota is a lightweight, blockless micro-transactions token aimed specifically at Internet-of-Things (IoT). My co-founder, Come-from-Beyond, posed a few questions here a couple weeks back regarding Bitshares 2.0 and micro-transactions in this thread: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,18784.0.html

It seems that Bitshares is not aiming for micro-transactions and instead focusing on its strengths. One of IOTA's goals is to find overlap and collaborate with the serious blockchain projects as we see no reason to 'compete', instead we rather compliment the blockchain projects.

I am opening this thread to start discussion about how IOTA and Bitshares can find  some overlapping use-cases which will benefit both projects.