[COMMITTEE INPUT REQ.] Fee Schedule for Shareholder Consultation

[xeroc]

I think a better starting point for custom operations is $0.01, not $0.10. As a "dumb" operation, they add very little overhead, aside from storage. So the base cost should be low and the fee_per_kbyte can be higher. Instead of $0.10 for the op and $0.01/kb, something like $0.01 for the op and $0.05 per kb.

Also, is there a reason different ops have different proposed per_kbyte prices? Why not start them all at the same value?

the per_kbyte prices differ because you can do different stuff with the transactions ... the more open the operation is to user-input, the more expensive it should be not that people store wikipedia on the blockchain.

The custom operation could be used for anything .. and we of course would love to see people use it .. but until we see some businesses evolving around it I don't see why it should be opened up cheaply ..

I agree with @roadscape.  Keep the cost of a transaction as low as possible, but charge per kb for storage.  You mentioned wanting to prevent storing wikipedia on the blockchain.  Wouldn't a per kb charge either a) prevent that or b) earn the network fees commensurate with storing that information?  Am I missing something?

Fine .. then have it reduce ..
seems I need a new proposal then .. gonna do so tomorrow

[tbone]

@committee: The proposal has been published and will expire in 7 days:     1.10.96
(Do not vote for 95, it has bugs that resulted from integer forcing fees for convenience, we can fix that later on)

This is how the proposal compares to the current fees:

Code: [Select]

        price_per_kbyte price for                                  transfer differs by    0.113x (network:    0.0882 USD / proposal:    0.0100 USD)
                    fee price for                                  transfer differs by    0.136x (network:    0.1324 USD / proposal:    0.0180 USD)
                    fee price for                        limit_order_create differs by    0.023x (network:    0.0441 USD / proposal:    0.0010 USD)
                    fee price for                        limit_order_cancel differs by    0.227x (network:    0.0004 USD / proposal:    0.0001 USD)
                    fee price for                         call_order_update differs by    0.227x (network:    0.0044 USD / proposal:    0.0010 USD)
            premium_fee price for                            account_create differs by    0.283x (network:   17.6489 USD / proposal:    5.0000 USD)
              basic_fee price for                            account_create differs by    0.239x (network:    0.4192 USD / proposal:    0.1000 USD)
        price_per_kbyte price for                            account_create differs by    0.793x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0070 USD)
        price_per_kbyte price for                            account_update differs by    0.793x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0070 USD)
                    fee price for                            account_update differs by    0.227x (network:    0.0044 USD / proposal:    0.0010 USD)
                    fee price for                         account_whitelist differs by    3.777x (network:    0.0265 USD / proposal:    0.1000 USD)
membership_lifetime_fee price for                           account_upgrade differs by    1.360x (network:   88.2446 USD / proposal:  120.0000 USD)
  membership_annual_fee price for                           account_upgrade differs by    0.850x (network:   17.6489 USD / proposal:   15.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                          account_transfer differs by    1.133x (network:    4.4122 USD / proposal:    5.0000 USD)
                symbol3 price for                              asset_create differs by    1.813x (network: 4412.2282 USD / proposal: 8000.0000 USD)
            long_symbol price for                              asset_create differs by    2.266x (network:   22.0611 USD / proposal:   50.0000 USD)
                symbol4 price for                              asset_create differs by    1.743x (network: 1147.1793 USD / proposal: 2000.0000 USD)
        price_per_kbyte price for                              asset_create differs by    1.133x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0100 USD)
        price_per_kbyte price for                              asset_update differs by    0.793x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0070 USD)
                    fee price for                              asset_update differs by   22.664x (network:    0.0882 USD / proposal:    2.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                     asset_update_bitasset differs by    1.133x (network:    4.4122 USD / proposal:    5.0000 USD)
                    fee price for               asset_update_feed_producers differs by    1.133x (network:    4.4122 USD / proposal:    5.0000 USD)
        price_per_kbyte price for                               asset_issue differs by    0.793x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0070 USD)
                    fee price for                               asset_issue differs by    5.666x (network:    0.1765 USD / proposal:    1.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                             asset_reserve differs by    5.666x (network:    0.1765 USD / proposal:    1.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                       asset_fund_fee_pool differs by   56.661x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.5000 USD)
                    fee price for                              asset_settle differs by    0.057x (network:    0.8824 USD / proposal:    0.0500 USD)
                    fee price for                       asset_global_settle differs by    1.133x (network:    4.4122 USD / proposal:    5.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                        asset_publish_feed differs by    0.227x (network:    0.0004 USD / proposal:    0.0001 USD)
                    fee price for                            witness_create differs by    1.133x (network:   44.1223 USD / proposal:   50.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                            witness_update differs by    0.057x (network:    0.1765 USD / proposal:    0.0100 USD)
        price_per_kbyte price for                           proposal_create differs by    5.666x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0500 USD)
                    fee price for                           proposal_create differs by    0.850x (network:    0.1765 USD / proposal:    0.1500 USD)
        price_per_kbyte price for                           proposal_update differs by    0.793x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0070 USD)
                    fee price for                           proposal_update differs by    0.567x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0050 USD)
                    fee price for                           proposal_delete differs by    0.000x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                withdraw_permission_create differs by   16.998x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.1500 USD)
                    fee price for                withdraw_permission_update differs by    0.057x (network:    0.1765 USD / proposal:    0.0100 USD)
        price_per_kbyte price for                 withdraw_permission_claim differs by    0.793x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0070 USD)
                    fee price for                 withdraw_permission_claim differs by  999.000x (network:    0.0000 USD / proposal:    0.0144 USD)
                    fee price for                withdraw_permission_delete differs by    0.000x (network:   44.1223 USD / proposal:    0.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                   committee_member_create differs by  566.607x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    5.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                   committee_member_update differs by 1133.214x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:   10.0000 USD)
                    fee price for committee_member_update_global_parameters differs by    0.000x (network:    0.1765 USD / proposal:    0.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                    vesting_balance_create differs by    0.113x (network:   44.1223 USD / proposal:    5.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                  vesting_balance_withdraw differs by  226.643x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    2.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                             worker_create differs by 16998.214x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:  150.0000 USD)
        price_per_kbyte price for                                    custom differs by    1.133x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0100 USD)
                    fee price for                                    custom differs by   11.332x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.1000 USD)
                    fee price for                                    assert differs by   56.661x (network:    0.1765 USD / proposal:   10.0000 USD)
        price_per_kbyte price for                         override_transfer differs by    0.793x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0070 USD)
                    fee price for                         override_transfer differs by   22.664x (network:    0.0441 USD / proposal:    1.0000 USD)
       price_per_output price for                         transfer_to_blind differs by    0.793x (network:    0.0882 USD / proposal:    0.0700 USD)
                    fee price for                         transfer_to_blind differs by    2.380x (network:    0.0882 USD / proposal:    0.2100 USD)
                    fee price for                       transfer_from_blind differs by    2.380x (network:    0.0882 USD / proposal:    0.2100 USD)

Note, that currently there is a discussion among some committee members whether the proposed $150 for creating a fee is too high.
I encourage committee members and shareholders to take a position and tell us what they think but keep in mind that changing a fee now will only result in a delay of at least another 7 days.

Thanks Xeroc!

Regarding the cost of creating a worker proposal being set to $150, I think considering we need more workers from around the world, the $150 premium is very prohibitive of getting any competing offers from weaker economy countries where dev work could be less.

I also think that there should be a premium to ensure the applications are serious and committed and also regarding the potential attack vector.

A premium should also send a signal to everyone who votes that someone was serious enough to put up money for the work they are going to perform should be given a fair review for voter support.

Therefore, with consideration of scale of economies, I am recommending $50  be the cost for the creation of a Worker.

Looking forward to other thoughts on this.

I agree that $150 is way too high.  This shouldn't be a profit center.  The cost should be just high enough to ensure serious proposals, but without being a barrier.  Don't forget that a cost like this will be more of a barrier in some localities than in others.  So I think $25 would be a better starting point.  If we get too many unserious proposals, then we can raise it in the future.  But I doubt we'd need to.
 

[tbone]

I think a better starting point for custom operations is $0.01, not $0.10. As a "dumb" operation, they add very little overhead, aside from storage. So the base cost should be low and the fee_per_kbyte can be higher. Instead of $0.10 for the op and $0.01/kb, something like $0.01 for the op and $0.05 per kb.

Also, is there a reason different ops have different proposed per_kbyte prices? Why not start them all at the same value?

the per_kbyte prices differ because you can do different stuff with the transactions ... the more open the operation is to user-input, the more expensive it should be not that people store wikipedia on the blockchain.

The custom operation could be used for anything .. and we of course would love to see people use it .. but until we see some businesses evolving around it I don't see why it should be opened up cheaply ..

I agree with @roadscape.  Keep the cost of a transaction as low as possible, but charge per kb for storage.  You mentioned wanting to prevent storing wikipedia on the blockchain.  Wouldn't a per kb charge either a) prevent that or b) earn the network fees commensurate with storing that information?  Am I missing something?

[Thom]

Also, is there a reason different ops have different proposed per_kbyte prices? Why not start them all at the same value?

The custom operation could be used for anything .. and we of course would love to see people use it .. but until we see some businesses evolving around it I don't see why it should be opened up cheaply ..

Xeroc, your logic escapes me. If you really want to see people use custom ops then why do you disincentivize it? Rather, you should incentivize it initially. If it becomes a problem, then raise the fees through committee adjustments.

Do you actually think there are so many devs out there who will "spam" the network by creating worthless ops? I just don't see that horde of devs pounding at the door waiting for such an opportunity.

Am I wrong, that implementing a custom op and the transactions that use it is not a trivial user level effort?

[roadscape]

I think a better starting point for custom operations is $0.01, not $0.10. As a "dumb" operation, they add very little overhead, aside from storage. So the base cost should be low and the fee_per_kbyte can be higher. Instead of $0.10 for the op and $0.01/kb, something like $0.01 for the op and $0.05 per kb.

Also, is there a reason different ops have different proposed per_kbyte prices? Why not start them all at the same value?

the per_kbyte prices differ because you can do different stuff with the transactions ... the more open the operation is to user-input, the more expensive it should be not that people store wikipedia on the blockchain.

The custom operation could be used for anything .. and we of course would love to see people use it .. but until we see some businesses evolving around it I don't see why it should be opened up cheaply ..

I'm launching a public demo either today or tomorrow to demonstrate custom ops. Ten cents for each custom op will kill my idea.. The price has been at 2 BTS for a while now and I've been counting on that being the case. Please reconsider...

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

@committee: The proposal has been published and will expire in 7 days:     1.10.96
(Do not vote for 95, it has bugs that resulted from integer forcing fees for convenience, we can fix that later on)

This is how the proposal compares to the current fees:

Code: [Select]

        price_per_kbyte price for                                  transfer differs by    0.113x (network:    0.0882 USD / proposal:    0.0100 USD)
                    fee price for                                  transfer differs by    0.136x (network:    0.1324 USD / proposal:    0.0180 USD)
                    fee price for                        limit_order_create differs by    0.023x (network:    0.0441 USD / proposal:    0.0010 USD)
                    fee price for                        limit_order_cancel differs by    0.227x (network:    0.0004 USD / proposal:    0.0001 USD)
                    fee price for                         call_order_update differs by    0.227x (network:    0.0044 USD / proposal:    0.0010 USD)
            premium_fee price for                            account_create differs by    0.283x (network:   17.6489 USD / proposal:    5.0000 USD)
              basic_fee price for                            account_create differs by    0.239x (network:    0.4192 USD / proposal:    0.1000 USD)
        price_per_kbyte price for                            account_create differs by    0.793x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0070 USD)
        price_per_kbyte price for                            account_update differs by    0.793x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0070 USD)
                    fee price for                            account_update differs by    0.227x (network:    0.0044 USD / proposal:    0.0010 USD)
                    fee price for                         account_whitelist differs by    3.777x (network:    0.0265 USD / proposal:    0.1000 USD)
membership_lifetime_fee price for                           account_upgrade differs by    1.360x (network:   88.2446 USD / proposal:  120.0000 USD)
  membership_annual_fee price for                           account_upgrade differs by    0.850x (network:   17.6489 USD / proposal:   15.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                          account_transfer differs by    1.133x (network:    4.4122 USD / proposal:    5.0000 USD)
                symbol3 price for                              asset_create differs by    1.813x (network: 4412.2282 USD / proposal: 8000.0000 USD)
            long_symbol price for                              asset_create differs by    2.266x (network:   22.0611 USD / proposal:   50.0000 USD)
                symbol4 price for                              asset_create differs by    1.743x (network: 1147.1793 USD / proposal: 2000.0000 USD)
        price_per_kbyte price for                              asset_create differs by    1.133x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0100 USD)
        price_per_kbyte price for                              asset_update differs by    0.793x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0070 USD)
                    fee price for                              asset_update differs by   22.664x (network:    0.0882 USD / proposal:    2.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                     asset_update_bitasset differs by    1.133x (network:    4.4122 USD / proposal:    5.0000 USD)
                    fee price for               asset_update_feed_producers differs by    1.133x (network:    4.4122 USD / proposal:    5.0000 USD)
        price_per_kbyte price for                               asset_issue differs by    0.793x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0070 USD)
                    fee price for                               asset_issue differs by    5.666x (network:    0.1765 USD / proposal:    1.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                             asset_reserve differs by    5.666x (network:    0.1765 USD / proposal:    1.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                       asset_fund_fee_pool differs by   56.661x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.5000 USD)
                    fee price for                              asset_settle differs by    0.057x (network:    0.8824 USD / proposal:    0.0500 USD)
                    fee price for                       asset_global_settle differs by    1.133x (network:    4.4122 USD / proposal:    5.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                        asset_publish_feed differs by    0.227x (network:    0.0004 USD / proposal:    0.0001 USD)
                    fee price for                            witness_create differs by    1.133x (network:   44.1223 USD / proposal:   50.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                            witness_update differs by    0.057x (network:    0.1765 USD / proposal:    0.0100 USD)
        price_per_kbyte price for                           proposal_create differs by    5.666x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0500 USD)
                    fee price for                           proposal_create differs by    0.850x (network:    0.1765 USD / proposal:    0.1500 USD)
        price_per_kbyte price for                           proposal_update differs by    0.793x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0070 USD)
                    fee price for                           proposal_update differs by    0.567x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0050 USD)
                    fee price for                           proposal_delete differs by    0.000x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                withdraw_permission_create differs by   16.998x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.1500 USD)
                    fee price for                withdraw_permission_update differs by    0.057x (network:    0.1765 USD / proposal:    0.0100 USD)
        price_per_kbyte price for                 withdraw_permission_claim differs by    0.793x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0070 USD)
                    fee price for                 withdraw_permission_claim differs by  999.000x (network:    0.0000 USD / proposal:    0.0144 USD)
                    fee price for                withdraw_permission_delete differs by    0.000x (network:   44.1223 USD / proposal:    0.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                   committee_member_create differs by  566.607x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    5.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                   committee_member_update differs by 1133.214x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:   10.0000 USD)
                    fee price for committee_member_update_global_parameters differs by    0.000x (network:    0.1765 USD / proposal:    0.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                    vesting_balance_create differs by    0.113x (network:   44.1223 USD / proposal:    5.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                  vesting_balance_withdraw differs by  226.643x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    2.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                             worker_create differs by 16998.214x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:  150.0000 USD)
        price_per_kbyte price for                                    custom differs by    1.133x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0100 USD)
                    fee price for                                    custom differs by   11.332x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.1000 USD)
                    fee price for                                    assert differs by   56.661x (network:    0.1765 USD / proposal:   10.0000 USD)
        price_per_kbyte price for                         override_transfer differs by    0.793x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0070 USD)
                    fee price for                         override_transfer differs by   22.664x (network:    0.0441 USD / proposal:    1.0000 USD)
       price_per_output price for                         transfer_to_blind differs by    0.793x (network:    0.0882 USD / proposal:    0.0700 USD)
                    fee price for                         transfer_to_blind differs by    2.380x (network:    0.0882 USD / proposal:    0.2100 USD)
                    fee price for                       transfer_from_blind differs by    2.380x (network:    0.0882 USD / proposal:    0.2100 USD)

Note, that currently there is a discussion among some committee members whether the proposed $150 for creating a fee is too high.
I encourage committee members and shareholders to take a position and tell us what they think but keep in mind that changing a fee now will only result in a delay of at least another 7 days.

Thanks Xeroc!

Regarding the cost of creating a worker proposal being set to $150, I think considering we need more workers from around the world, the $150 premium is very prohibitive of getting any competing offers from weaker economy countries where dev work could be less.

I also think that there should be a premium to ensure the applications are serious and committed and also regarding the potential attack vector.

A premium should also send a signal to everyone who votes that someone was serious enough to put up money for the work they are going to perform should be given a fair review for voter support.

Therefore, with consideration of scale of economies, I am recommending $50  be the cost for the creation of a Worker.

Looking forward to other thoughts on this.

[xeroc]

@committee: The proposal has been published and will expire in 7 days:     1.10.96
(Do not vote for 95, it has bugs that resulted from integer forcing fees for convenience, we can fix that later on)

This is how the proposal compares to the current fees:

Code: [Select]

        price_per_kbyte price for                                  transfer differs by    0.113x (network:    0.0882 USD / proposal:    0.0100 USD)
                    fee price for                                  transfer differs by    0.136x (network:    0.1324 USD / proposal:    0.0180 USD)
                    fee price for                        limit_order_create differs by    0.023x (network:    0.0441 USD / proposal:    0.0010 USD)
                    fee price for                        limit_order_cancel differs by    0.227x (network:    0.0004 USD / proposal:    0.0001 USD)
                    fee price for                         call_order_update differs by    0.227x (network:    0.0044 USD / proposal:    0.0010 USD)
            premium_fee price for                            account_create differs by    0.283x (network:   17.6489 USD / proposal:    5.0000 USD)
              basic_fee price for                            account_create differs by    0.239x (network:    0.4192 USD / proposal:    0.1000 USD)
        price_per_kbyte price for                            account_create differs by    0.793x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0070 USD)
        price_per_kbyte price for                            account_update differs by    0.793x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0070 USD)
                    fee price for                            account_update differs by    0.227x (network:    0.0044 USD / proposal:    0.0010 USD)
                    fee price for                         account_whitelist differs by    3.777x (network:    0.0265 USD / proposal:    0.1000 USD)
membership_lifetime_fee price for                           account_upgrade differs by    1.360x (network:   88.2446 USD / proposal:  120.0000 USD)
  membership_annual_fee price for                           account_upgrade differs by    0.850x (network:   17.6489 USD / proposal:   15.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                          account_transfer differs by    1.133x (network:    4.4122 USD / proposal:    5.0000 USD)
                symbol3 price for                              asset_create differs by    1.813x (network: 4412.2282 USD / proposal: 8000.0000 USD)
            long_symbol price for                              asset_create differs by    2.266x (network:   22.0611 USD / proposal:   50.0000 USD)
                symbol4 price for                              asset_create differs by    1.743x (network: 1147.1793 USD / proposal: 2000.0000 USD)
        price_per_kbyte price for                              asset_create differs by    1.133x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0100 USD)
        price_per_kbyte price for                              asset_update differs by    0.793x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0070 USD)
                    fee price for                              asset_update differs by   22.664x (network:    0.0882 USD / proposal:    2.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                     asset_update_bitasset differs by    1.133x (network:    4.4122 USD / proposal:    5.0000 USD)
                    fee price for               asset_update_feed_producers differs by    1.133x (network:    4.4122 USD / proposal:    5.0000 USD)
        price_per_kbyte price for                               asset_issue differs by    0.793x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0070 USD)
                    fee price for                               asset_issue differs by    5.666x (network:    0.1765 USD / proposal:    1.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                             asset_reserve differs by    5.666x (network:    0.1765 USD / proposal:    1.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                       asset_fund_fee_pool differs by   56.661x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.5000 USD)
                    fee price for                              asset_settle differs by    0.057x (network:    0.8824 USD / proposal:    0.0500 USD)
                    fee price for                       asset_global_settle differs by    1.133x (network:    4.4122 USD / proposal:    5.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                        asset_publish_feed differs by    0.227x (network:    0.0004 USD / proposal:    0.0001 USD)
                    fee price for                            witness_create differs by    1.133x (network:   44.1223 USD / proposal:   50.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                            witness_update differs by    0.057x (network:    0.1765 USD / proposal:    0.0100 USD)
        price_per_kbyte price for                           proposal_create differs by    5.666x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0500 USD)
                    fee price for                           proposal_create differs by    0.850x (network:    0.1765 USD / proposal:    0.1500 USD)
        price_per_kbyte price for                           proposal_update differs by    0.793x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0070 USD)
                    fee price for                           proposal_update differs by    0.567x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0050 USD)
                    fee price for                           proposal_delete differs by    0.000x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                withdraw_permission_create differs by   16.998x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.1500 USD)
                    fee price for                withdraw_permission_update differs by    0.057x (network:    0.1765 USD / proposal:    0.0100 USD)
        price_per_kbyte price for                 withdraw_permission_claim differs by    0.793x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0070 USD)
                    fee price for                 withdraw_permission_claim differs by  999.000x (network:    0.0000 USD / proposal:    0.0144 USD)
                    fee price for                withdraw_permission_delete differs by    0.000x (network:   44.1223 USD / proposal:    0.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                   committee_member_create differs by  566.607x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    5.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                   committee_member_update differs by 1133.214x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:   10.0000 USD)
                    fee price for committee_member_update_global_parameters differs by    0.000x (network:    0.1765 USD / proposal:    0.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                    vesting_balance_create differs by    0.113x (network:   44.1223 USD / proposal:    5.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                  vesting_balance_withdraw differs by  226.643x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    2.0000 USD)
                    fee price for                             worker_create differs by 16998.214x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:  150.0000 USD)
        price_per_kbyte price for                                    custom differs by    1.133x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0100 USD)
                    fee price for                                    custom differs by   11.332x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.1000 USD)
                    fee price for                                    assert differs by   56.661x (network:    0.1765 USD / proposal:   10.0000 USD)
        price_per_kbyte price for                         override_transfer differs by    0.793x (network:    0.0088 USD / proposal:    0.0070 USD)
                    fee price for                         override_transfer differs by   22.664x (network:    0.0441 USD / proposal:    1.0000 USD)
       price_per_output price for                         transfer_to_blind differs by    0.793x (network:    0.0882 USD / proposal:    0.0700 USD)
                    fee price for                         transfer_to_blind differs by    2.380x (network:    0.0882 USD / proposal:    0.2100 USD)
                    fee price for                       transfer_from_blind differs by    2.380x (network:    0.0882 USD / proposal:    0.2100 USD)

Note, that currently there is a discussion among some committee members whether the proposed $150 for creating a fee is too high.
I encourage committee members and shareholders to take a position and tell us what they think but keep in mind that changing a fee now will only result in a delay of at least another 7 days.

[xeroc]

I think a better starting point for custom operations is $0.01, not $0.10. As a "dumb" operation, they add very little overhead, aside from storage. So the base cost should be low and the fee_per_kbyte can be higher. Instead of $0.10 for the op and $0.01/kb, something like $0.01 for the op and $0.05 per kb.

Also, is there a reason different ops have different proposed per_kbyte prices? Why not start them all at the same value?

the per_kbyte prices differ because you can do different stuff with the transactions ... the more open the operation is to user-input, the more expensive it should be not that people store wikipedia on the blockchain.

The custom operation could be used for anything .. and we of course would love to see people use it .. but until we see some businesses evolving around it I don't see why it should be opened up cheaply ..

[abit]

I think I should translate it Chinese.. or ask someone to do it.

//Update:
Due to the new year holidays, Chinese people would be busying visiting families and/or traveling these days (1-3 weeks). It's likely that most people will go to places where is no good Internet connection. And most people may have no much time to spend on BitShares. So I suggest that we postpone the deadline of decision making (read: voting) and give more time to Chinese community. Thanks.

What would you recommend? An additional week perhaps? So 14 days for discussion and feedback instead of 7?

Yes I think that's better.

By the way, I saw "a low 0.1% trading fee for committee owned assets such as bitUSD" in the non-tech summary, but haven't found related command/code in the technical summary. Am I missing something?

That has to be done in a different op (for each asset) and i havent coded it yet

I suggest not do this, to help liquidity.

[roadscape]

I think a better starting point for custom operations is $0.01, not $0.10. As a "dumb" operation, they add very little overhead, aside from storage. So the base cost should be low and the fee_per_kbyte can be higher. Instead of $0.10 for the op and $0.01/kb, something like $0.01 for the op and $0.05 per kb.

Also, is there a reason different ops have different proposed per_kbyte prices? Why not start them all at the same value?

[bitcrab]

2 weeks passed, any further inputs?

[abit]

bump. Is it better to move this post to Committee Proposal board?

[abit]

Also, we propose to implement this new fee schedule for LTM-only for a period of time, and offer it to basic members only later. This way, we effectively upgrade memberships into premium products. As more and more features are added to LTM, we may increase the account upgrading fee accordingly.

I think the fee schedule should be offered to all the members from the beginning, to make a distinction in offering time regarding core fee schedule will make the basic user feel even worse and is not good for attracting more new users.

Sorry I didn't get your point. Imo it's a good strategy that provide difference services to VIPs and normal users.

they are already offered different service in the proposed fee schedule, for transfer fee:
for LTM: $0.018, 80% cash back.
for basic user :$0.018 no cash back.
right?
what I said is no need to implement this in different time for LTM and basic user.

I see.
I think the text you quoted from the proposal refers to only some special features and/or new features.

[Musewhale]

i like this
do it 

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

I am mainly upset by the way this change is being introduced. Instead of starting with a forum thread "Let's revise the target/purpose of the referral program" to present arguments pro and con, the whole thing has been obfuscated and wrapped into a bigger package that required a lot of prior work done by you and other people. As a result, this strategy change is now entangled with other much less controversial stuff. The fact that you have put so much effort to revise every single fee, validates the purpose of this change in the eyes of many people here and allows you to have less solid arguments about the justification itself. I'm sure you are going to defend this by saying that all of this is interconnected and can only be viewed as a single package, but I disagree. I perceive this as an intentional measure, often used in politics.

I always appreciate your bright ideas and ability to articulate your points well.

As a third-party to the matter, if I may speak out on it.

It did not come across to me (and likely other committee members) that we were getting onto a topic of "Let's revise the target/purpose of the referral program" .  We were thinking of what can be done to enable both the trading/exchange and referral businesses to function well and to prosper together in the bts network.  When one side (trading/exchange) is asking for lower transfer fee, the other side AM/LTM and referral program can continue to be attractive and useful (with other kinds of fee revised).  xeroc has offerred to work on the fee schedule and we are thankful for his work.  In short, we were focusing on fees and their implications (and not just the referral program per se).  As a referrer, it is natural that the matter to you centres around the referral program and that your POV is therefore xeroc 'revise target of referral program'.  Consequently, a misunderstanding arised because of the difference in POV.

As for the transfer fee, the main thing to consider is why we expect users to make transfers in the first place. If a user does not have a good reason to do a transfer, she will not do it, no matter what the fee is. For me this is the main issue: most people currently do have any reason to move their funds around. And there is only one way to give people this badly needed reason: businesses building useful apps around BitShares. For this we need to patiently wait, like a good gardener waits for her plants to grow, and while waiting we must not change the rules.

I believe users do want to transact freely, be it to trade for BTC, to send some bts/bitassets to friends and/or family members, or some other reasons.  However, any transaction of value USD2 or below would mean a transfer fee of 5% -  (30bts or approx USD0.10) too costly and prohibitive. 

As a referrer, one may wait patiently for a potential future that some businesses would build on this fee structure and reap the benefits then.  As a user, one would not see the rationale to continue to suffer the prohibitive transfer fee and to wait for a future that may never come.

Well thought out reply @cube 

I agree with what you stated.