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Offline cob

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How do you predict bitshares catching on?
« on: January 09, 2014, 03:25:37 AM »

Who do you think it's users will be? Who will it be marketed for?

How do you imagine it breaking out of the altcoin micro-niche community?

Because right now, people would have to convert their fiat to crypto and that will almost surely be BTC. Then find an exchange that trades bitshares, and finally start trading bitassets with their new collateral (bts).

BTS still has the problem of the chokehold being the centralized fiat to crypto exchanges no?

How do you guys picture bts catching on to the point where there is enough volume/traffic to buy sell short etc?

Discuss!
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline JustHayden

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Re: How do you predict bitshares catching on?
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2014, 03:30:50 AM »
If I remember correctly Keyhotee will have a marketplace so you will be able to exchange them there?
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Offline ripplexiaoshan

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Re: How do you predict bitshares catching on?
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2014, 03:34:56 AM »
If I remember correctly Keyhotee will have a marketplace so you will be able to exchange them there?

Keyhotee will only have wallet function I am afraid,whereas bitshare system will be the trade market.
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Offline Stan

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Re: How do you predict bitshares catching on?
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2014, 04:08:22 AM »
Who do you think it's users will be? Who will it be marketed for?

How do you imagine it breaking out of the altcoin micro-niche community?

Because right now, people would have to convert their fiat to crypto and that will almost surely be BTC. Then find an exchange that trades bitshares, and finally start trading bitassets with their new collateral (bts).

BTS still has the problem of the chokehold being the centralized fiat to crypto exchanges no?

How do you guys picture bts catching on to the point where there is enough volume/traffic to buy sell short etc?

Discuss!

That deserves a much better answer than a shoot-from-the-hip one-liner.  That deserves to be the topic of a full letstalkbitcoin or newsletter Featured Article.  While I'm waiting to find the necessary three nights on the graveyard shift, I'd love to hear the forum's thoughts...

Discuss!
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline johncitizen

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Re: How do you predict bitshares catching on?
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2014, 04:18:54 PM »
I would expect users to migrate through existing services once a solid foundation of trust is established. There will be no overnight transition but we will first see the ever growing crypto-community first to adopt. Every second, a new business accepts BTC. See this overstock post highlighting BTS practicality. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2115.0

The whole industry is growing rapidly.

 There has already been high level discussion indicating the current foreign exchange market outdated, due for redesign. The problem is nobody knows how.
The global financial/network system is evolving in many ways. Invictus are light years ahead.

Once Bitshares becomes officially announced, things will really heat up. Just through current AGS price you can gauge a decent perspective. Right now I would say BTS are underground. The world knows of the bitcoin and some litecoin but no bitshare. True that only a small fraction of the crypto-community is aware. In 6 months it will be a whole new world.
 

Possibly within this period a number of large exchanges will be offering crypto-fiat (cryptsy is not far off). Although this will not be the only direct input, it will certainly benefit all cryptos. Perhaps Invictus have something up the sleeve? I do not fully understand the plans but I can piece enough together to know I need AGS/PTS.

At first I would imagine an illiquid market. One where a few G's or BTC's could wash the market in any desired direction. Just like some micro alts at the moment. I wouldn't think it long until the market establishes a true price. It will certainly be interesting.



Offline Empirical1

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Re: How do you predict bitshares catching on?
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2014, 06:15:59 PM »
I think Bitshares should focus on marketing, implementing and delivering one asset at first 'Bit-Gold'. 

Most crypto-currency enthusiasts want something outside the banking system, (free from confiscation) that is limited.
Bitcoin serves this purpose but it is very volatile.

Most crypto suppporters also own gold, however gold can be confiscated, is hard to move over borders and is difficult to transact in.

If a bit-asset can be created that holds the $ value of gold whether Bitcoin is worth $10 or $10 000 the store of value and transactional market will be HUGE.

(As lots of people will be skeptical that a digital asset can reference the value of a real commodity, it may be worth allocating some of the AGS funds raised to buy real gold to be held in a 'Goldmoney' account. In the beginning when these Bit-Gold Shares have low liquidity, many doubters and a few competitors.  Bitshares will be able to stand out from the competition, with this USP which will create confidence that for the initial allocation of Bit-gold at least, that even if you doubt Bitshares or the value holding mechanism you are guaranteed that a Bitshares-Gold ounce can be redeemed for a real gold ounce for the first 6 months or something. Once there is a strong market, proof of concept and confidence, then the gold can be sold and the funds put back into the constant development of Bitshares.) 

This is also something the competitors using POB (Proof of Burn) atm, (which I like) will not be able to compete with. 




Offline Empirical1

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Re: How do you predict bitshares catching on?
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2014, 06:26:40 PM »
I would also employ the services of a professional marketing/branding company if the funds were available.

When I think Bitshares, I should thinking - 'Well funded, proven track record, simple, clear, exciting, user-friendly' as opposed to how I think Bitshares/AGS may now appear to newbies which is 'exciting, interesting' but also 'slightly confusing, muddled, complicated, lagging behind'

Offline santaclause102

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Re: How do you predict bitshares catching on?
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2014, 11:32:11 PM »
I would expect users to migrate through existing services once a solid foundation of trust is established. There will be no overnight transition but we will first see the ever growing crypto-community first to adopt. Every second, a new business accepts BTC. See this overstock post highlighting BTS practicality. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2115.0

The whole industry is growing rapidly.

 There has already been high level discussion indicating the current foreign exchange market outdated, due for redesign. The problem is nobody knows how.
The global financial/network system is evolving in many ways. Invictus are light years ahead.

Once Bitshares becomes officially announced, things will really heat up. Just through current AGS price you can gauge a decent perspective. Right now I would say BTS are underground. The world knows of the bitcoin and some litecoin but no bitshare. True that only a small fraction of the crypto-community is aware. In 6 months it will be a whole new world.
 

Possibly within this period a number of large exchanges will be offering crypto-fiat (cryptsy is not far off). Although this will not be the only direct input, it will certainly benefit all cryptos. Perhaps Invictus have something up the sleeve? I do not fully understand the plans but I can piece enough together to know I need AGS/PTS.

At first I would imagine an illiquid market. One where a few G's or BTC's could wash the market in any desired direction. Just like some micro alts at the moment. I wouldn't think it long until the market establishes a true price. It will certainly be interesting.

I agree Invictus is ahead in conceptual thinking about the potential of the DAC the industry. But that is NOT enough. I am also trying to establish a company/service that is, like bitshares/DACs/bitcoin, much about the network and its effect. And apart from the capability of doing something (the technology) you need to burn a lot of money (branding, marketing, running without profit for long) to get the mass needed to get an even a bigger mass and therefore massive profits. So I suggest to look for a partner with reputation in the financial industry or any kind of reputation and money, especially because this is open source and anyone else with more money to burn and a known reputation in the financial industry could take your software and do it. Now this is a good moment because no code has been released that would be sufficient to just copy and re-brand. Is that actually true?

Is is possible with only ripple to get ripple for fiat. As far as I understand ripple you would have to have your bank use ripple too. Is that right? For mainstream adaption direct fiat<->BTS exchange is a must.

In the end, for mainstream adaption, you might need some money and backing form people well respected in the financial industry (e.g. some VC company specialized in the financial sector or a partner bank or so) to gain a reputation in the financial industry and get media coverage. Keep in mind that even if the future of banking and trading goes without trust, right now trust and reputation is everything or a least a lot. Also ripple has gotten most of its media coverage through google ventures funding. I know that the words bank and old money are ideological daemons in the crypto community and I am not a big fan either but that doesnt matter. Do you really believe the old money/financial industry will just let you pass? As soon as they realize this is the future a battle will begin and it will be fought with all cruelty needed. Its I3 with the advantages experience in the field and being first against big rebrand company/bank with the advantages money and reputation in mainstream society (mainstream is what matters for success obviously). I like being romantic about taking your rights back and conquering corrupted institutions and this will actually work regarding privacy with keyhotee and DACs providing all kinds if services but when you enter an extreeemly well established market you need to play by the rules of war (in a certain respect; play by rules doesn't mean you obey!) You need to play out your advantages and partner up to compensate for your weaknesses. Just don't make the mistake to not prepare for the fight and the realities of it.

Maybe its not that extreme :) but the more valid your concept is and the more success you have the more will this play a role. Prepare! Finding a good team fast that can keep up with the success and the demand is a point of failure and a well known partner with an established recruiting mechanisms and lots of connections is crucial here as well. 

When I think Bitshares, I should thinking - 'Well funded, proven track record, simple, clear, exciting, user-friendly' as opposed to how I think Bitshares/AGS may now appear to newbies which is 'exciting, interesting' but also 'slightly confusing, muddled, complicated, lagging behind'
That is a good summary of what it should look like marketing wise and what it appears atm

I would also employ the services of a professional marketing/branding company if the funds were available.

You could get this for free by telling the branding company to get PTS worth the increase of PTS that goes along with thier branding efforts. You could arrange something like: The branding company gets 10% (or whatever) of the profit from value increase of all PTS I3 owns for the time of one year. Big corporations make (or at least they should) the variable compensation of CEOs (that among other things depends on the increase of the share price) depending on how the company's share developed compared to an index. You could do the same and make the payout depending on a comparison with the top 10 Crypto Currencies.
I will share some more thoughts on a branding strategy soon...

I think the approach of focusing on one asset first makes sense.

Who uses Proof of burn?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2014, 03:31:57 AM by delulo »

Offline Empirical1

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Re: How do you predict bitshares catching on?
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2014, 03:41:24 PM »
Hi delulo I agree with most things you wrote especially about forming useful partnerships at the early stages.

Who uses Proof of burn?

Counterparty (XCP) They released a working (but buggy) smart property system out of the blue in the new year with NO funding. They're now issuing their currency but they're using 'proof of burn', so to receive XCP you send BTC to an un-owned address. They've also remained anonymous I think. Pretty impressive stuff, very 'Satoshi-esque'

Offline santaclause102

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Re: How do you predict bitshares catching on?
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2014, 03:23:16 AM »
Hi delulo I agree with most things you wrote especially about forming useful partnerships at the early stages.

Who uses Proof of burn?

Counterparty (XCP) They released a working (but buggy) smart property system out of the blue in the new year with NO funding. They're now issuing their currency but they're using 'proof of burn', so to receive XCP you send BTC to an un-owned address. They've also remained anonymous I think. Pretty impressive stuff, very 'Satoshi-esque'

Thanks. Do you know if they use the bitcoin blockchain?

Offline CWEvans

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Re: How do you predict bitshares catching on?
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2014, 07:47:44 PM »
Who do you think it's users will be?

I expect that we will see a progression similar to the adoption of all new technologies.

After the bleeding edge here, BitShares early adopters are likely to be day-trading speculators who see it is yet another sparkly toy to pump-&-dump.

If I can get enough early adopters to embrace my 'entrepreneurs without borders' mindset, we might see post-ISO-4217 issues, like BitGuatemalanLightRoastedArabica, BitJeanJeanRoosevelt's2015SongCollection, BitGhanaHotSauce001, and the like that can be used for international trade, but I expect that the day-traders could become a nuisance by pushing the prices around.

Who will it be marketed for?

Most likely, some kind of consensus will be sought in these threads, mixed with some of the executives' own expectations.

How do you imagine it breaking out of the altcoin micro-niche community?

That's pretty much the name of the game.

Considering that altcoins are empty tokens not meant to represent anything else, other than some imagined improvement on Bitcoin, one could argue that BitShares is categorically different from Bitcoin, and that it is as mistaken to think of it as an altcoin as it is to think of a Bitcoin wallet as a spreadsheet, although both are software that displays numbers.

On the other hand, such distinctions would be as lost on most as the differences among popular music styles today are lost on me, and nothing is to be gained by arguing with prospective users.

BitShares promoters might need to cut their own new path, rather than position BitShares against colored coins, Mastercoin, Open Transactions, Ethereum, et al.

My own expectation is that I can use BitShares to help price goods that are new to the market. Rather than see them as derivatives or even necessarily as bets, I see them as market research. For example, if I released BitHondurasMediumRoastArabica, it would be in the spirit of issuing Kickstarter-style pre-sales and asking prospective buyers what the price per kilogram should be.

The only way to know if this would help break BitShares out of Altcoin Purgatory is to run the experiment.

Offline santaclause102

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Re: How do you predict bitshares catching on?
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2014, 07:44:38 PM »
Who do you think it's users will be?

I expect that we will see a progression similar to the adoption of all new technologies.

After the bleeding edge here, BitShares early adopters are likely to be day-trading speculators who see it is yet another sparkly toy to pump-&-dump.

If I can get enough early adopters to embrace my 'entrepreneurs without borders' mindset, we might see post-ISO-4217 issues, like BitGuatemalanLightRoastedArabica, BitJeanJeanRoosevelt's2015SongCollection, BitGhanaHotSauce001, and the like that can be used for international trade, but I expect that the day-traders could become a nuisance by pushing the prices around.

Who will it be marketed for?

Most likely, some kind of consensus will be sought in these threads, mixed with some of the executives' own expectations.

How do you imagine it breaking out of the altcoin micro-niche community?

That's pretty much the name of the game.

Considering that altcoins are empty tokens not meant to represent anything else, other than some imagined improvement on Bitcoin, one could argue that BitShares is categorically different from Bitcoin, and that it is as mistaken to think of it as an altcoin as it is to think of a Bitcoin wallet as a spreadsheet, although both are software that displays numbers.

On the other hand, such distinctions would be as lost on most as the differences among popular music styles today are lost on me, and nothing is to be gained by arguing with prospective users.

BitShares promoters might need to cut their own new path, rather than position BitShares against colored coins, Mastercoin, Open Transactions, Ethereum, et al.

My own expectation is that I can use BitShares to help price goods that are new to the market. Rather than see them as derivatives or even necessarily as bets, I see them as market research. For example, if I released BitHondurasMediumRoastArabica, it would be in the spirit of issuing Kickstarter-style pre-sales and asking prospective buyers what the price per kilogram should be.

The only way to know if this would help break BitShares out of Altcoin Purgatory is to run the experiment.

The logical next step would be a USD/Bitshares exchange.

Offline cubicdissection

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Re: How do you predict bitshares catching on?
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2014, 07:13:08 AM »
Thanks. Do you know if they use the bitcoin blockchain?

They do. XCP was credited to the BTC address that initiated the burn, and XCP transactions require a corresponding BTC transaction.
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