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Offline kalori

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Investment decisions: Stan Larimer and Charles Hoskinson
« on: January 09, 2014, 02:24:31 PM »

Hello,
    I was just doing some research before making any investment decisions in Bitshares and/or related projects. From this thread it appears that there is some bad blood between Invictus Innovations ex-CEO Charles Hoskinson and current CEO Stan Larimer:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=325425.60

Unfortunately this reflects badly on *both* the related projects:
   - Invictus Innovations, Inc
   - Next Cryptography Inc and the upcoming Ethereum project: http://ethereum.org/ethereum.html

Sadly it makes it slightly harder to make any investment decisions, so I am looking for some clarifications from anyone with some insight into the matter. It would be a big help to anyone looking to invest in any of these projects, confidence wise - much appreciated.

Some related thoughts/questions:

As the original Bitshares white paper was co-authored by both Stan and Charles , so Ethereum Vs Bitshares are competing products and both born from the same Bitshares white paper - thoughts?
   "Ethereum and some other projects I'm working on are going to completely replace the need for keyhotee and bitshares"
   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=325425.msg4285810#msg4285810

There is also this message from one "ravenshore" that suggests a link still exists between Bitshares and Ethereum(?):

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1566.msg17938#msg17938
"Very large design team from the Bitshares, colored coin, and mastercoin communities also some major innovations with the wallet client."
nextcoin

Some references:

Charles Hoskinson:
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/charles-hoskinson/29/983/662
"Past: Acting Chief Executive Officer at Invictus Innovations Incorporated"
"Current: Chief Executive Officer at Next Cryptography Inc." : Any relashionship to NXT http://www.nxtcrypto.org/nxt-coin/what-nxt#  ?
Profile on bitcointalk: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=102392
Ethereum : http://ethereum.org/ethereum.html

Stan Larimer
These forums :-) https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=5
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=611

Bitshares Investor:
http://www.linkedin.com/in/lixiaolai
PTS : PoH4dkPiT2oKb1eobcSyPGSsi8Nuz4bs3t

Offline toast

Re: Investment decisions: Stan Larimer and Charles Hoskinson
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2014, 03:06:17 PM »
As the original Bitshares white paper was co-authored by both Stan and Charles , so Ethereum Vs Bitshares are competing products and both born from the same Bitshares white paper - thoughts?
   "Ethereum and some other projects I'm working on are going to completely replace the need for keyhotee and bitshares"
   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=325425.msg4285810#msg4285810

[next crypto] Any relashionship to NXT http://www.nxtcrypto.org/nxt-coin/what-nxt#  ?

Ethereum is not so much a direct competitor as much as a platform on which you could build a competitor. Analogy: Dan is making a new website, while Charles is making a new programming language suitable for building websites.

Ethereum and Charles's has no relationship with NXT.
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline luckybit

Re: Investment decisions: Stan Larimer and Charles Hoskinson
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2014, 03:35:36 PM »
Hello,
    I was just doing some research before making any investment decisions in Bitshares and/or related projects. From this thread it appears that there is some bad blood between Invictus Innovations ex-CEO Charles Hoskinson and current CEO Stan Larimer:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=325425.60

Unfortunately this reflects badly on *both* the related projects:
   - Invictus Innovations, Inc
   - Next Cryptography Inc and the upcoming Ethereum project: http://ethereum.org/ethereum.html

Sadly it makes it slightly harder to make any investment decisions, so I am looking for some clarifications from anyone with some insight into the matter. It would be a big help to anyone looking to invest in any of these projects, confidence wise - much appreciated.

Some related thoughts/questions:

As the original Bitshares white paper was co-authored by both Stan and Charles , so Ethereum Vs Bitshares are competing products and both born from the same Bitshares white paper - thoughts?
   "Ethereum and some other projects I'm working on are going to completely replace the need for keyhotee and bitshares"
   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=325425.msg4285810#msg4285810

There is also this message from one "ravenshore" that suggests a link still exists between Bitshares and Ethereum(?):

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1566.msg17938#msg17938
"Very large design team from the Bitshares, colored coin, and mastercoin communities also some major innovations with the wallet client."
nextcoin

Some references:

Charles Hoskinson:
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/charles-hoskinson/29/983/662
"Past: Acting Chief Executive Officer at Invictus Innovations Incorporated"
"Current: Chief Executive Officer at Next Cryptography Inc." : Any relashionship to NXT http://www.nxtcrypto.org/nxt-coin/what-nxt#  ?
Profile on bitcointalk: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=102392
Ethereum : http://ethereum.org/ethereum.html

Stan Larimer
These forums :-) https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=5
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=611

Bitshares Investor:
http://www.linkedin.com/in/lixiaolai


Ethereum and Bitshares follow totally different design principles but attempt to tackle the same problem. Ethereum is a lot more modular and seems much more ambitious. It's designed almost in the Linux model where there can be different distributions of it and it's based around contracts written in assembly language.

Bitshares is C++, is not as modular but designed more around Bitcoin's code base. So while Ethereum is totally new and much more high risk the upside is a lot higher. Bitshares on the other hand isn't totally new so it's less of a risk of it not working but it's also not as ambitious and flexible from the start. Bitshares could probably be extended to become flexible like Ethereum is planning to be but Ethereum is trying to be the most flexible from the start so that is why I think of it as the Linux distribution of distributed contracts.

I don't think its a bad thing that there is Ethereum, Bitshares, Mastercoin and Colored Coin. Invest a bit in them all if you can get ROI. With PTS you will get ROI. I don't know enough about Ethereum to tell you how to even invest in it and Mastercoin you will get ROI but probably not as quickly.
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Offline bitcool

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Re: Investment decisions: Stan Larimer and Charles Hoskinson
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2014, 10:56:02 PM »
...
Ethereum and Charles's has no relationship with NXT.
At least one of the NXT founder(s) was quite active on this board.

Offline smiley35

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Re: Investment decisions: Stan Larimer and Charles Hoskinson
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2014, 11:05:08 PM »
On the bitcointalk post charles alludes to making keyhotee/bitshares irrelevant. Can anyone shed some light on what he is talking about in a non biases way?

Offline boshen1011

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Re: Investment decisions: Stan Larimer and Charles Hoskinson
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2014, 06:58:02 AM »
Hello,
    I was just doing some research before making any investment decisions in Bitshares and/or related projects. From this thread it appears that there is some bad blood between Invictus Innovations ex-CEO Charles Hoskinson and current CEO Stan Larimer:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=325425.60

Unfortunately this reflects badly on *both* the related projects:
   - Invictus Innovations, Inc
   - Next Cryptography Inc and the upcoming Ethereum project: http://ethereum.org/ethereum.html

Sadly it makes it slightly harder to make any investment decisions, so I am looking for some clarifications from anyone with some insight into the matter. It would be a big help to anyone looking to invest in any of these projects, confidence wise - much appreciated.

Some related thoughts/questions:

As the original Bitshares white paper was co-authored by both Stan and Charles , so Ethereum Vs Bitshares are competing products and both born from the same Bitshares white paper - thoughts?
   "Ethereum and some other projects I'm working on are going to completely replace the need for keyhotee and bitshares"
   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=325425.msg4285810#msg4285810

There is also this message from one "ravenshore" that suggests a link still exists between Bitshares and Ethereum(?):

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1566.msg17938#msg17938
"Very large design team from the Bitshares, colored coin, and mastercoin communities also some major innovations with the wallet client."
nextcoin

Some references:

Charles Hoskinson:
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/charles-hoskinson/29/983/662
"Past: Acting Chief Executive Officer at Invictus Innovations Incorporated"
"Current: Chief Executive Officer at Next Cryptography Inc." : Any relashionship to NXT http://www.nxtcrypto.org/nxt-coin/what-nxt#  ?
Profile on bitcointalk: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=102392
Ethereum : http://ethereum.org/ethereum.html

Stan Larimer
These forums :-) https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=5
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=611

Bitshares Investor:
http://www.linkedin.com/in/lixiaolai
My name is Bo Shen, executive director and CEO Asia of 3i.

We have no bad blood with Charles on our side.

Regarding to the resignation of Mr.Charles Hoskinson, I would like to make a clarification:

The board of directors and investors unanimously agreed for his resignation.

« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 07:06:22 AM by boshen1011 »

Offline super3

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Re: Investment decisions: Stan Larimer and Charles Hoskinson
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2014, 07:42:27 AM »
Was reading through, and this caught my eye:
"0.25X ether will be given to the founders."

So pre-mined? Yeah, Ethereum is going to have a bad time...

Offline smiley35

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Re: Investment decisions: Stan Larimer and Charles Hoskinson
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2014, 11:27:21 PM »

My name is Bo Shen, executive director and CEO Asia of 3i.

We have no bad blood with Charles on our side.

Regarding to the resignation of Mr.Charles Hoskinson, I would like to make a clarification:

The board of directors and investors unanimously agreed to ask for his resignation based on incompatibility with our company’s values and integrity.

[/quote]

Aren't we the investors? I know I've sunk a good portion of my bitcoins into this project. Not that I was qualified or interested in being a part of that decision, just trying to figure out what you mean by investors.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 11:29:05 PM by smiley35 »

Offline bytemaster

Re: Investment decisions: Stan Larimer and Charles Hoskinson
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2014, 11:30:25 PM »
This was prior to pts and ags


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Offline super3

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Re: Investment decisions: Stan Larimer and Charles Hoskinson
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2014, 04:07:23 PM »
Aren't we the investors? I know I've sunk a good portion of my bitcoins into this project. Not that I was qualified or interested in being a part of that decision, just trying to figure out what you mean by investors.
I believe this refers to the investors that initially invested in Invictus, the company. This happened before Protoshares even existed.

Offline smiley35

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Re: Investment decisions: Stan Larimer and Charles Hoskinson
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2014, 05:24:13 PM »
Aren't we the investors? I know I've sunk a good portion of my bitcoins into this project. Not that I was qualified or interested in being a part of that decision, just trying to figure out what you mean by investors.
I believe this refers to the investors that initially invested in Invictus, the company. This happened before Protoshares even existed.


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Offline voldemort628

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Re: Investment decisions: Stan Larimer and Charles Hoskinson
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2014, 09:47:57 AM »
interesting I was always wondering why Charles left but couldnt find any info on the matter.

on the side note, i believe we should speed up the development of bitshare to get the product ,of course in a good state, to the market asap, because we have more and more competitors, in one niche market or another...

Offline que23

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Re: Investment decisions: Stan Larimer and Charles Hoskinson
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2014, 10:10:43 AM »
I'm not sure why 'bad blood' would make it hard to make investment decisions. This seems nonsensical to me. And what about Vitalik Buterin? Do you think the 'bad blood' will cause him to do something to wreck his own project? If you're going to make investments in technology, you really need to hire someone who can look at the ideas and code and tell you what looks promising.  8)
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Offline td services

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Re: Investment decisions: Stan Larimer and Charles Hoskinson
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2014, 03:19:35 PM »
I'm diversifying into all of the next gen crypto asset projects which look promising with evidence of a solid team, adequate funding, and evidence of progress on the underlying technology. So far this list includes Mastercoin, Invictus, eMunie, and Ethereum.

MC2, colored coins, and Open Transactions are also very promising, but not directly invest-able.  Monetas, an extension of Open Transactions into mobile, is seeking investment.

XCP looks interesting with a client in alpha, but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around proof of burn of BTC to determine distribution of the premine - seems wasteful of funds which could go to development. Over 800 BTC has been burned already (over $600,000).

I'd be interested in hearing of any other projects along these lines (except NXT - NOT interested).

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Re: Investment decisions: Stan Larimer and Charles Hoskinson
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2014, 03:28:47 PM »
I'd be interested in hearing of any other projects along these lines (except NXT - NOT interested).

Why against NXT but not MSC? (just curious)

Diversifying is a good strategy. So far I have only PTS and AGS. But I am thinking of taking some of the BTC earmarked for AGS and invest in Counterparty.

 

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