Poll

Should 3i stop BTC investment of AngelShares?

Yes.
13 (31.7%)
No.
28 (68.3%)

Total Members Voted: 38

Voting closed: January 26, 2014, 04:36:15 AM

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Offline networker

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Should 3i stop BTC investment of AngelShares?
« on: January 11, 2014, 04:36:15 AM »

If 3i don't stop BTC investment of Angelshares. The PTS price will be going down gradually. I don't think allowing BTC investment is a good idea for PTS holders. 3I shoud stop BTC investment right now and only allow PTS investemnt to protect PTS value. Think the aim and value of PTS is that it can obtain BTS, now you can get more BTS using BTC, why should you need PTS?

Offline Riverhead

Re: Should 3i stop BTC investment of AngelShares?
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2014, 04:43:39 AM »
If 3i don't stop BTC investment of Angelshares. The PTS price will be going down gradually. I don't think allowing BTC investment is a good idea for PTS holders. 3I shoud stop BTC investment right now and only allow PTS investemnt to protect PTS value. Think the aim and value of PTS is that it can obtain BTS, now you can get more BTS using BTC, why should you need PTS?


Liquidity.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Should 3i stop BTC investment of AngelShares?
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2014, 04:46:42 AM »
Average daily donations BTC: 48.68
Average daily donations PTS: 2,740.2

48.68 / 2740   =>  .0177

Current PTS Price =>  .0175  (coinmarketcap)

Isn't it funny how efficient the market is?   The only thing stopping BTC donations would do is force us to sell PTS for BTC in the market to pay our bills.  Either way Invictus will end up with BTC and the PTS price will be suppressed.   Except with AGS the process of converting between BTC and PTS is distributed and done in a way that is far more effecient than if Invictus was attempting to raise 500 BTC selling PTS on Bter or Cryptsy.   It is also far more efficient for those who want to invest to send us BTC directly than to jump through hoops on Bter or Cryptsy paying their fees.

Changing the rules would hurt PTS far more than keeping things how they are and how things are is BETTER than if we never took BTC for AGS.    There is a method to our madness.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

sumantso

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Re: Should 3i stop BTC investment of AngelShares?
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2014, 04:55:32 AM »
My opinion was that its better to hold AGS than PTS. Of course, Bytemaster can go on a long holiday turning the scale back to PTS :D

In anycase,  changing a scheme midway would reflect very poorly.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Should 3i stop BTC investment of AngelShares?
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2014, 04:58:14 AM »
My opinion was that its better to hold AGS than PTS. Of course, Bytemaster can go on a long holiday turning the scale back to PTS :D

In anycase,  changing a scheme midway would reflect very poorly.

I am loving life building technology to change the world ;)  As far as I am concerned, I am on a long holiday!   
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline BTSdac

Re: Should 3i stop BTC investment of AngelShares?
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2014, 05:13:08 AM »
Average daily donations BTC: 48.68
Average daily donations PTS: 2,740.2

48.68 / 2740   =>  .0177

Current PTS Price =>  .0175  (coinmarketcap)

Isn't it funny how efficient the market is?   The only thing stopping BTC donations would do is force us to sell PTS for BTC in the market to pay our bills.  Either way Invictus will end up with BTC and the PTS price will be suppressed.   Except with AGS the process of converting between BTC and PTS is distributed and done in a way that is far more effecient than if Invictus was attempting to raise 500 BTC selling PTS on Bter or Cryptsy.   It is also far more efficient for those who want to invest to send us BTC directly than to jump through hoops on Bter or Cryptsy paying their fees.

Changing the rules would hurt PTS far more than keeping things how they are and how things are is BETTER than if we never took BTC for AGS.    There is a method to our madness.
1.why we need BTC donation , we have PTS now ,since it succeed
2.if 3I only accept the PTS donation ,it can show the big confidence to BTS.  it is also a big support to donators
3.if stop BTC donation , how to attract BTC owner to inverst AGS
4.ssuggest change the PTS /BTC  from 50%/50% to other  , like  30%/70%
« Last Edit: January 11, 2014, 02:22:15 PM by BTSdac »
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Offline ebit

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Re: Should 3i stop BTC investment of AngelShares?
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2014, 05:32:54 AM »
continue

Online Shentist

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Re: Should 3i stop BTC investment of AngelShares?
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2014, 07:43:09 AM »
it is absolutly impossible to change the condition midway. what do you talking about? it will damage the project over a point without return and will never get back the trust of anybody. you would have to refund every transaction. so now you have to think about what do you want? i like PTS more then AGS. If i need money or the project will go a way i don't like i can sell PTS and BTS. With AGS i am doomed forever  :) in good times and in bad times.

Offline smiley35

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Re: Should 3i stop BTC investment of AngelShares?
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2014, 08:11:47 AM »
it is absolutly impossible to change the condition midway. what do you talking about? it will damage the project over a point without return and will never get back the trust of anybody. you would have to refund every transaction. so now you have to think about what do you want? i like PTS more then AGS. If i need money or the project will go a way i don't like i can sell PTS and BTS. With AGS i am doomed forever  :) in good times and in bad times.

+1

I think that those who are talking about changing the funding methods don't really understand them fully.

Offline Markus

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Re: Should 3i stop BTC investment of AngelShares?
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2014, 10:30:49 AM »
Average daily donations BTC: 48.68
Average daily donations PTS: 2,740.2

48.68 / 2740   =>  .0177

Current PTS Price =>  .0175  (coinmarketcap)

Isn't it funny how efficient the market is?   The only thing stopping BTC donations would do is force us to sell PTS for BTC in the market to pay our bills.  Either way Invictus will end up with BTC and the PTS price will be suppressed.   Except with AGS the process of converting between BTC and PTS is distributed and done in a way that is far more effecient than if Invictus was attempting to raise 500 BTC selling PTS on Bter or Cryptsy.   It is also far more efficient for those who want to invest to send us BTC directly than to jump through hoops on Bter or Cryptsy paying their fees.

Changing the rules would hurt PTS far more than keeping things how they are and how things are is BETTER than if we never took BTC for AGS.    There is a method to our madness.

Your calculation above is a bit cheeky. You compare the average AGS-implied PTS price of the last 10 days with the current price of PTS.
The average PTS price was more like 0.022 BTC which is about 25 % (0.022/0.0177) higher. Clearly selling PTS to donate BTC for AGS is the main reason for the PTS price decline since New Year.
Changing the scheme halfway through though is definitely the wrong thing to do.
One thing III could do instead is denominate more bounties in BTC and not in PTS. I guess many bounty-hunters would sell their PTS for BTC right away depressing the price even more. Since we all believe PTS is undervalued long term this is also in the interest of maximising the value of the Angel Fund.

Offline bitcoinba

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Re: Should 3i stop BTC investment of AngelShares?
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2014, 12:30:09 PM »
Average daily donations BTC: 48.68
Average daily donations PTS: 2,740.2

48.68 / 2740   =>  .0177

Current PTS Price =>  .0175  (coinmarketcap)

Isn't it funny how efficient the market is?   The only thing stopping BTC donations would do is force us to sell PTS for BTC in the market to pay our bills.  Either way Invictus will end up with BTC and the PTS price will be suppressed.   Except with AGS the process of converting between BTC and PTS is distributed and done in a way that is far more effecient than if Invictus was attempting to raise 500 BTC selling PTS on Bter or Cryptsy.   It is also far more efficient for those who want to invest to send us BTC directly than to jump through hoops on Bter or Cryptsy paying their fees.

Changing the rules would hurt PTS far more than keeping things how they are and how things are is BETTER than if we never took BTC for AGS.    There is a method to our madness.

Your calculation above is a bit cheeky. You compare the average AGS-implied PTS price of the last 10 days with the current price of PTS.
The average PTS price was more like 0.022 BTC which is about 25 % (0.022/0.0177) higher. Clearly selling PTS to donate BTC for AGS is the main reason for the PTS price decline since New Year.
Changing the scheme halfway through though is definitely the wrong thing to do.
One thing III could do instead is denominate more bounties in BTC and not in PTS. I guess many bounty-hunters would sell their PTS for BTC right away depressing the price even more. Since we all believe PTS is undervalued long term this is also in the interest of maximising the value of the Angel Fund.

+1

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Offline HackFisher

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Re: Should 3i stop BTC investment of AngelShares?
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2014, 12:57:04 PM »
Average daily donations BTC: 48.68
Average daily donations PTS: 2,740.2

48.68 / 2740   =>  .0177

Current PTS Price =>  .0175  (coinmarketcap)

Isn't it funny how efficient the market is?   The only thing stopping BTC donations would do is force us to sell PTS for BTC in the market to pay our bills.  Either way Invictus will end up with BTC and the PTS price will be suppressed.   Except with AGS the process of converting between BTC and PTS is distributed and done in a way that is far more effecient than if Invictus was attempting to raise 500 BTC selling PTS on Bter or Cryptsy.   It is also far more efficient for those who want to invest to send us BTC directly than to jump through hoops on Bter or Cryptsy paying their fees.

Changing the rules would hurt PTS far more than keeping things how they are and how things are is BETTER than if we never took BTC for AGS.    There is a method to our madness.

Your calculation above is a bit cheeky. You compare the average AGS-implied PTS price of the last 10 days with the current price of PTS.
The average PTS price was more like 0.022 BTC which is about 25 % (0.022/0.0177) higher. Clearly selling PTS to donate BTC for AGS is the main reason for the PTS price decline since New Year.
Changing the scheme halfway through though is definitely the wrong thing to do.
One thing III could do instead is denominate more bounties in BTC and not in PTS. I guess many bounty-hunters would sell their PTS for BTC right away depressing the price even more. Since we all believe PTS is undervalued long term this is also in the interest of maximising the value of the Angel Fund.

This analysis make sense, +1.

And if this points stand, maybe we can get an conclusion that, for the potential ags funders, they hold much more pts than btc half-half(price considered) relatively at very beginning, so to fund ags, for better return, they choose to sale pts for btc, this is just my assumption.

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« Last Edit: January 11, 2014, 01:05:55 PM by HackFisher »
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline Markus

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Re: Should 3i stop BTC investment of AngelShares?
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2014, 01:12:49 PM »
And if this points stand, maybe we can get an conclusion that, for the potential ags funders, they hold much more pts than btc half-half(price considered) relatively at very beginning, so to fund ags, for better return, they choose to sale pts for btc, this is just my assumption.

This is just the most logical thing to do. Right now agsexplorer shows 19.3 BTC and 1614 PTS donated today. The exchanges price the ratio at 0.0168 but 19.3/1614 is 0.012. If I had PTS, of course I would sell them at any price above 0.012 before donating.

Offline betax

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Re: Should 3i stop BTC investment of AngelShares?
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2014, 07:48:00 AM »
Personally I think the best thing is to wait to donate and sell PTS, BTC yes best time now.
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Offline betax

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Re: Should 3i stop BTC investment of AngelShares?
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2014, 08:00:27 AM »
and based on the formula,  we need to get to a donation of 300 btc a day :)
or 500 PTS donations a day!
« Last Edit: January 12, 2014, 08:03:22 AM by betax »
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