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Offline markzookerburg

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Is it like you don't care about PTS?
« on: January 14, 2014, 05:16:19 AM »

Hey there,

I am one of your early day miners. I have been observing the fiasco going on in this forum for a month and its left me concerned. I have always requested for an active marketing policy and I never saw it happen. So here's some more of my concerns.


I joined in for this "chaos" we are having here somewhere around day 7 or 8 of mining. I read around about you guys and I saw potential. I saw vision,ambition and the desire to do something big. I loved how you guys approached to this as a start-up and found the need to keep things simple/humble. When I first looked at your website I felt sad seeing how pathetic of a show you could put on with it - and could not even focus on the very basics of using a template and explain things better. But oh well this is a "Start-up" and I thought maybe its a small team and they have bigger things to focus on. With 600k in the bank -they might have bigger concerns.


I invested 4 days with my entire team (I run a start-up too) , setting up 1000's of servers (close to 4000 for those wondering) and burned around 40000 dollars (not to mention time wasted doing this while I could focus on my start-up instead),  and mined a seizable amount of coins. Sure I could dump my coins in mid December when coin prices were at a high. But no! I believed in what you guys were doing and stuck around as any reasonable investor would. I looked forward to keyhotee and bitshares and spoke about it to people. As a matter of fact I have also been working on partnerships with different networks for acquiring massive mining hardware, servers and was looking forward to investing another 100,000 in mining operations.

However things had to take a different route as time passed by.
Inspite of requesting you guys to have a proper Marketing plan and actually work on it - I never saw anything good. I had smarter users here ask you permission to market on your side and still the derp who had been hired to market Bitshares and Protoshares never did anything major. In over a month of pressurising you, I have seen nothing in the media about Protoshares , its vision or what it stands for.

Keyhotee was always a huge promise and I loved what it stood for. Sure you have had some minor releases, but where's the actual product? With so much in funding I demand something better and am sure many other users do too.


The only coin honoring PTS we had was Memorycoin and its prices have gone from something to close to nothing. In such an environment where people see only things going downhill don't you think you should ATLEAST release a public statement explaining what your vision for PTS is ?

I know holding on to my protoshares gives me bitshares on the long run, but am being forced to hold on to the PTS even when I want to pull out of this nonsense you are doing due to your incompetence to market your product properly or figure economics properly.
Angelshares is killing Protoshares. You are doing injustice to your early day investors and keeping them blinded with long term promises.
I know building something like BTS requires funding. But you guys are getting 100k every goddamn day!
Why in the world can't you hire a better agency to build great websites and have actual agencies handle your PR?

To sum it up - I'd like to keep my "opinions" on what you're doing with the following observations


1. You clearly dont give  a fuck about PTS
2. You clearly don't have a clue about marketing -and are not willing to be open to users willing to help
3. You can't accept innovation from users here (Eg: Trade platform thread -being bashed upon)
4. You are about to start partying excessively with all the new funding
5. Development is probably the last on your list now - because I can't imagine why in the world would something take so long to build up when there's so much in funding


Anyone who's been reasonably involved with a start-up would know how companies start-off with 20k, deliver on their promises first and then scale up.
You guys are sitting atop 600k + million by the end of this month and still haven't delivered anything big.


So to the team at Invictus
Please get your act together and put on a good show instead of wasting people's time

Regards
Mark
« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 05:50:22 AM by markzookerburg »

lzr1900

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Re: Is it like you don't care about PTS?
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2014, 05:39:31 AM »
I do agree with your points 100%!!!!

Offline ripplexiaoshan

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Re: Is it like you don't care about PTS?
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2014, 05:48:12 AM »
Very infectious and well stated post! Just a small correction, MMC is not a DAC of 3I, BTS will be the first one.
BTS ID:xiaoshan

Offline markzookerburg

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Re: Is it like you don't care about PTS?
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2014, 05:53:47 AM »
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2297.0;topicseen


The chinese share similiar emotions. Open it in chrome to read it in english.

I believe your bounty system was pulled out of a rats ass.
Wonder why?
Here's why.
You are paying exorbitant amounts to industry amateurs to do a half assed job - done over prolonged periods!
Eg: 100 PTS for the infrographic Mktdirector or whatever his name is wants?
 Based on current prices thats 1100 dollars.
I work with some of the best graphic designers in the start-up world and I assure you it costs barely 400-600 dollars for one to be made. You are wasting       500 dollars worth investor money on nothing?
Similiar situations exist over multiple aspects of development too.

P.s - Thank you for correcting me over the MMC thing

Offline toast

Re: Is it like you don't care about PTS?
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2014, 05:56:30 AM »
Just so you know with this change the percent of bitshares awarded to protoshare holders went up to 50% and bitshares will not be mined
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline markzookerburg

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Re: Is it like you don't care about PTS?
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2014, 05:59:03 AM »
Just so you know

1. There is no public ledger over how funds are being spent. I saw Brian gets 100 pts a week for working with Invictus? Last I checked no start-up founder gets  close to 10k a month in salary unless he's running a bloated company thats headed to a crash

2. None of us find it safe waiting on blind promises when your delivery of keyhotee was half assed with no actual product out just yet. Sure there's been statements that bitshares will come out in July, but what if you do the same thing then?

3. Sure I can have more bitshares, but what if the value of each bitshare is actually much lower than what a PTS is worth now?
 

Offline bytemaster

Re: Is it like you don't care about PTS?
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2014, 06:32:18 AM »
There is a ton of work to do by many players.  I am just one man who has solid ideas and is attempting to realize them.  I am depending upon others to come alongside and make this a reality and we have assembled an amazing team since Vegas.    You may not have seen the work Brian Page has been doing, but believe me, you will be happy in the months a head.


Quote
“No McFly ever amounted to anything in the history of Hill Valley!”
“Yeah, well, history is gonna change.”

« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 06:34:31 AM by bytemaster »
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline markzookerburg

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Re: Is it like you don't care about PTS?
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2014, 06:58:33 AM »
How about you get off the forum and start focusing solely on work for starters?
How about you allocate a single hour to address users and use the rest for more productive work?
How about we have a public ledger showing how funds are spent?
How about we reconsider the bounty system? (I can personally assist in this)
How about you leave the forum to your great batch of moderators and go ahead with things that actually require your attention?
How about you set deadlines for marketing and development and work towards it?
How about you hire more people instead of giving goddamn bounties?

I sure want to see history being made, but the way you handle things now makes me wonder if you will end up BEING history instead of making it.

Offline onceuponatime

Re: Is it like you don't care about PTS?
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2014, 07:19:35 AM »
How about you get off the forum and start focusing solely on work for starters?
How about you allocate a single hour to address users and use the rest for more productive work?
How about we have a public ledger showing how funds are spent?
How about we reconsider the bounty system? (I can personally assist in this)
How about you leave the forum to your great batch of moderators and go ahead with things that actually require your attention?
How about you set deadlines for marketing and development and work towards it?
How about you hire more people instead of giving goddamn bounties?

I sure want to see history being made, but the way you handle things now makes me wonder if you will end up BEING history instead of making it.

As I recall from your earlier posts, you invested time and money into this project that you desperately need for your own project, hoping probably to make a quick buck. This has put you in the unenviable position. But that is your problen - not a reflection on how things are going at Invictus.

I personally am amazed at the boundless energy that Dan is devoting to this, and I am more than pleased with results so far (and yes, I am also a large investor - I just wasn't so unwise as to invest money in a startup that I desperately needed soon for another project.

Trying to sew dissension and controversy to force the pace of a project that is already evolving at breakneck speed is counterproductive to not only my interests and that of other protoshare holders, but to your own.

I personally would not want you involved actively in this project, especially in marketing, because as I said before you have an abrasive personality.


Offline hasher

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Re: Is it like you don't care about PTS?
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2014, 07:37:56 AM »
I invested 4 days with my entire team (I run a start-up too) , setting up 1000's of servers (close to 4000 for those wondering) and burned around 40000 dollars (not to mention time wasted doing this while I could focus on my start-up instead),  and mined a seizable amount of coins.
i hear its a cry of despair from someone who was too risky, too greedy and wanted to receive fast return on long term investment, that happens all the time with so many people.

well, im not a big investor, and i understand your pain, but hey,
even if you had invested this money into other project you could lose, its always start up risks like anywhere else.
but i agree with you that putting Angelshares in cross with PTS decreasing somehow value of PTS.
But i think its make Bitshares project more "fair" to latecomers, and..its still fair to holders of PTS, because they will receive same (or more) share of project as it was said in initital proposition
imho just my 1 cent
« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 07:46:23 AM by hasher »

Offline markzookerburg

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Re: Is it like you don't care about PTS?
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2014, 07:44:20 AM »
News update : I had contingency plans and by no means am I looking forward to Invictus and its projects to fund my projects. Like stated in the current thread- its very true that I did share sentiments for the company due to its start-up mentality in its beginning days, a little something that has been completely eradicated from its culture lately.

"Hoping probably to make a quick buck" - Like stated in the thread, it was highly likely of me to dump these coins when the time was right around mid of december. I held on because I believed in the vision and the products Invictus was working on, both of which have lately gone haywire.

"Trying to sew dissention and controversy" - You mean openly stating public sentiments and asking questions? Sure, if thats how you see it, so be it -but as a user - just like anyone else with the most minute of interest or holdings in PTS I have my rights to question whats going on. Apologies if it doesnt go well with your policy of kissing ass and appeasing the masses.

I have to admit I am also amazed at the kind of energy Dan has brought to the table, but like stated in the thread- I am not happy with the way he utilizes his energy to do things that can take us forward. If by breakneck speeds -your refer to lack of deadlines, unaccounted expenditure of investor money and pathetic development rates , sure I am wrong. But please do open your eyes to whats going on.


As for your personal choice of me not being involved in this project, let me assure you -its in the last of my "to-do" list to do something for invictus as of now. Partly because they lack the ambition and vision they started off with and partly because they have failed numerous times to hold on to their promises. I did offer a helping hand on friendly terms, with the last of corporate/financial interests. If you can do the same- go ahead! . All am demanding is action and movement - something we greatly lack.



One more thing - If you think 40,000 USD in mining is a big deal, I assure you it isnt. Half of my mining operations are fully funded on corporate perks and other give outs. I really don't lose much. That said - if a cryptocoin garners immense interest in me or shows real potential I can bring a lot more to the table. I am not the only person losing out here. There are other losers out there who put their hard earned money into this. Kick me out of the equation -what about the guys who mined with 2 or 3 pc's and mined a few PTS? Are we doing justice to them?

If any of you have read my thread- I haven't stated anywhere that I want to see pts at X amount in said time -all i have demanded is action and policy revamping. Something - our community should openly welcome, instead of kissing ass and nodding heads to whatever Dan has to offer.

At the end of the day we are all humans and we all err. Unless you come out in the open with what you see wrong and try correcting them - I don't see us being headed where we are meant to be headed towards.

Offline onceuponatime

Re: Is it like you don't care about PTS?
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2014, 07:55:08 AM »
My further contribution to this thread is that I am actively acquiring both protoshares and angelsahres. Thank goodness there are sellers  :)

Offline Giga

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Re: Is it like you don't care about PTS?
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2014, 09:47:17 AM »
Yes it does feel like there isn't enough done to promote protoshares, but i think it's still too early to tell. I agree the amount of funds are enough to launch a massive campaign within a week, but i trust the I3 team in doing the right thing. I've asked bytemaster about these concerns before and he assured us that a strong marketing campaign is in the works, i have faith in the I3 team, we have a huge opportunity here to make history and i am confident we will see big things in the coming weeks.

Personally i promote PTS and AGS wherever i go and to anyone i meet personal or business, this is the least i can do to help promote this innovation and i hope to be able to contribute even more in the future.


sumantso

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Re: Is it like you don't care about PTS?
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2014, 10:35:20 AM »
I agree on a couple of points.

1> Marketing sucks. I have been involved with FTC and especially WDC from the beginning, and the marketing they did was amazing, especially considering it was done by volunteers. In contrast the marketing here is terrible; even more so when you consider that actual money is being paid. Its so bad that I actually thought this might be a deliberate ploy to keep the value down and grab some cheap PTS/AGS.

2> PTS got the raw deal wrt AGS. I can understand why it would be so though, considering AGS is fully I3 profit while PTS is not. With the new license, 3rd party DACs which use the code (which they will unless they try to reinvent the wheel) will honour both AGS and PTS so there is good argument to change AGS to PTS. I guess PTS will end up as 1.2 PTS = 1 AGS.

Would be nice if there were more updates. Bytemater is doing some good work which he can see in the Bitshare thread. If there is an weekly update which shows how much other stuff are being done that will be very nice.

Offline santaclause102

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Re: Is it like you don't care about PTS?
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2014, 11:51:20 AM »
So for the most part the points the OP made come down to efficiency concerns.
From an entrepreneur's perspective your time/efficiency management has room for improvement, I agree. Labour division is key to efficiency.
1) The guys at nxt have 2 core developers doing nothing else around the cock but code. And 1-3 guys just doing announcements / PR / talking to the community / addressing concerns. Seems very efficient.
Dan, the energy you put in is remarkable! But you take care of every single issue here. This detracts   
2) I think bounties make sense to attract good developers. For tasks that just have to be done there are cheaper ways that also cost you less time, like hiring a professional to design a website or a graphic designer doing the infografik.
 

 

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