Author Topic: New Bitshares Dividend Idea  (Read 3651 times)

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Offline Chris4210

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New Bitshares Dividend Idea
« on: January 13, 2017, 03:18:24 pm »
Dear BitShares community,

in today´s mumble (Episode #3) we came up with a new Dividend idea that should be discussed in the forum. This is just a rough idea, without any math, done yet.

Quote
[15:46] (Channel) ihashfury: BitShares are Shares - LTMs that hold BTS or Short BitAssets should get dividends

Today fee structure on BitShares:
80% for referral program
20% for BitShares reserve pool (pays witnesses and workers)


New fee structure on BitShares:
70% for referral program
10% for dividends
20% for BitShares reserve pool (pays witnesses and workers)


The idea is to collect 10% of the fees, pool them, and pay them out to all Lifetime members (LTM) that hold Bitshares. The dividends would be paid out according to the stake, and incentive users to buy Lifetime memberships.


Additional idea:
  • Pay the Dividends in BitAssets, like BitUSD
  • Big exchanges like Poloniex are excluded from the dividends
  • LTM Accounts that hold BTS and short BitAssets get dividend
  • Dividend fee is a variable fee, controlled by BitShares Committee


Critical feedback:
  • Affiliat payout will be reduced by 10%
  • How will exchanges react on this idea
  • How many fees are collected per day?
    Quote
    [15:54] (Channel) EstefanTT_bis: Seems that we had this week 25k BTS fee accumulated
    = 2,500 BTS Dividend paid out in total


What do you think about this idea?
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Offline bitcrab

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Re: New Bitshares Dividend Idea
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2017, 03:28:34 pm »
I don't know now how much fees the platform can get from users every month, but I think it's very low, too low to worth doing such a dividend distribution.

Offline Chris4210

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Re: New Bitshares Dividend Idea
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2017, 03:32:29 pm »
I don't know now how much fees the platform can get from users every month, but I think it's very low, too low to worth doing such a dividend distribution.

Yes, that is one of the risks. So we have to further analyze the idea and calculate how many dividends could be paid.

 Another option would be to take a % of the daily worker/witness budget for a payout. But I would prefer more to pay the dividends based on the overall transaction volume of the DAC. So the payout will be different each interval.

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Offline kani

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Re: New Bitshares Dividend Idea
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2017, 04:11:03 pm »
Hope you don't mind if I twist this idea a little bit.

How about this:
* Committee-controlled SmartCoins add a 0.1% market fee.
* Every trade in that market generates a small bit of revenue FOR THAT MARKET...
* PAY IT BACK to shorters of that asset!

EDIT: Moved discussion here: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23707.0.html
« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 04:35:30 pm by kani »
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Offline fav

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Re: New Bitshares Dividend Idea
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2017, 04:12:52 pm »
 +5% and payout in smartcoins.

additionally:

* Quarterly fixed payouts
* in order to participate you have to lock bts and be LTM

I don't know now how much fees the platform can get from users every month, but I think it's very low, too low to worth doing such a dividend distribution.

That's literally the best incentive to get traction and more activity.
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Offline JonnyB

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Re: New Bitshares Dividend Idea
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2017, 04:14:23 pm »
This seems to complicated to me.
Why not start with a simple worker proposal that creates bitUSD and distributes it equally amongst Lifetime members on a weekly basis.

If we like it it we keep it, If we don't we vote it out.
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Offline yvv

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Re: New Bitshares Dividend Idea
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2017, 04:15:10 pm »
Quote
70% for referral program
10% for dividends
20% for BitShares reserve pool (pays witnesses and workers)

Disagree. My proposal:
100% for BitShares reserve pool (pays witnesses and workers)

Offline serejandmyself

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Re: New Bitshares Dividend Idea
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2017, 04:15:52 pm »
I would go more extreme and pay 20 - 25% dividends
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Offline kani

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Re: New Bitshares Dividend Idea
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2017, 04:19:16 pm »
Hope you don't mind if I twist this idea a little bit.

How about this:
* Committee-controlled SmartCoins add a 0.1% market fee.
* Every trade in that market generates a small bit of revenue FOR THAT MARKET...
* PAY IT BACK to shorters of that asset!

A refinement to this twist.
* Amount paid in dividend is based upon how much of the particular bitAsset a user has borrowed.  Holders do not get dividend, only collateralized positions.

EDIT: Moved discussion here: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23707.0.html
« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 04:35:19 pm by kani »
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Offline EstefanTT

Re: New Bitshares Dividend Idea
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2017, 04:20:50 pm »
I think we have collected 25,000 bts this week, at least, it is the number that appears on the last BSoTN

https://steemit.com/bitshares/@steempower/bitshares-state-of-the-network-10th-january-2017

If we remove 10% from the referral program to give to LTM accounts, we are removing money done by the most active LTM promotors and give it to all LTM, even the one who don't promote at all.

I didn't think about that problem.

When [member=31]fav[/member] share its original on this thread https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23691.0.html, he also propose that the sharing would be done considering how bts is holded on the LTM account.

This idea maybe has to be tweeked.

I really think that we need to find a way, with this idea or other ones, to give incentives to ppl to use the referral program.

When the referral program was promising, we had a lot of cool things created. Roadscape was creating Cryptofresh without asking for money, Fav was promoting BTS a lot and gaining hundreds of users,  my friends and I translated everything in french and created BitSharesFCX, a informational website was created in Greece, ... the promotion of BitShares was starting very well and we've killed it when we lower the fee to almost nothing.

Now, we are complaining that we don't have a good image, we destroy the way BM originally forsee how to incentive to promote and create a natural network effect.

I'm not proposing a solution but just saying, we need to come up with a way to make the referral program EXITING !
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Offline bitcrab

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Re: New Bitshares Dividend Idea
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2017, 04:21:01 pm »
I don't know now how much fees the platform can get from users every month, but I think it's very low, too low to worth doing such a dividend distribution.

Yes, that is one of the risks. So we have to further analyze the idea and calculate how many dividends could be paid.

 Another option would be to take a % of the daily worker/witness budget for a payout. But I would prefer more to pay the dividends based on the overall transaction volume of the DAC. So the payout will be different each interval.

it seems your guys hold the idea of  "let's charge more fees and pay more dividends".
in my view maybe the system can be called DAC, but it is very different with a real company, I don't care much on dividends, even no dividend at all is not a problem.however, we need always to make the users happy and make the ecosystem active.

there is a big difference between BTS and a real company share, the price of the latter depends greatly on the dividends while the former does not, we should discuss more on what a business model BTS should or really have but not focus on dividends.


Offline EstefanTT

Re: New Bitshares Dividend Idea
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2017, 04:33:05 pm »
As China won't accept high fee Tx (even on high amounts), we could have very  low fee or free Tx like Steem. That way, there is no complain from custumers over the world. 

In order to have incomes to distribute between the reserve pool and the referral program, we could simply add 0.1% on every trade on the DEX (BTS, BitUSD, BitCNY, BitGOLD, ...).

The Dex is growing and could generate a lot fee. There is no place where you can find an exchange with lower fee than 0.1%, we should have it. Nobody will find it expensive or a bad thing, it's a standard. We already bring the decentralisation on the table.

This 0.1% could be splitted between reserve pool / referral ( 20/80 ). That should add incentive to use the referral program again.

But I feel that it wouldn't be enough, we should add more to it. Promotion cost a lot of time, the person wanting to do it needs to feel that it could make good money long term if it does it well.

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Offline yvv

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Re: New Bitshares Dividend Idea
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2017, 04:42:51 pm »
Things like dividends and referrals should not be coded into blockchain. They should be paid by businesses which run on top of blockchain from their own revenue, whatever they think they can give away. Blockchain fees should be very small, just enough to cover expenses which are essential for running blockchain, namely witnesses and workers.

Offline kani

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Re: New Bitshares Dividend Idea
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2017, 04:46:54 pm »
Things like dividends and referrals should not be coded into blockchain. They should be paid by businesses which run on top of blockchain from their own revenue, whatever they think they can give away. Blockchain fees should be very small, just enough to cover expenses which are essential for running blockchain, namely witnesses and workers.

Agreed. +5%

For my final 2 BTS on the topic, I don't see why LTM should get a special dividend for doing nothing, especially when it is taken away from referrers.  To much emphasis on referrers has the risk of looking like a Ponzi, so I'm not sure I want to see that changed either.

Cheers!
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Offline xeroc

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Re: New Bitshares Dividend Idea
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2017, 04:50:27 pm »
Things like dividends and referrals should not be coded into blockchain. They should be paid by businesses which run on top of blockchain from their own revenue, whatever they think they can give away. Blockchain fees should be very small, just enough to cover expenses which are essential for running blockchain, namely witnesses and workers.

Agreed. +5%

For my final 2 BTS on the topic, I don't see why LTM should get a special dividend for doing nothing, especially when it is taken away from referrers.  To much emphasis on referrers has the risk of looking like a Ponzi, so I'm not sure I want to see that changed either.

Cheers!
- kani
This .. there is already enough incentive to upgrade to LTM:
- ability to register your own accounts
- ability to enter referral program
- fees reduced by 80%!!!

Paying out dividends only makes sense if the business (BitShares) makes a profit. And we aren't there yet.
Once there is profit generated, we can setup a worker to move funds out of the reserve pool and hand it out to all shareholders of BTS (because they are ALL shareholders) .. but then again, it makes no sense to take them out just to redistribute them .. it would effectively just reduce the price while keeping the market cap ..
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