Poll

How many 100 kW windmills does it take to create an MMC block?

1
2 (18.2%)
5
3 (27.3%)
10
1 (9.1%)
25
2 (18.2%)
50
3 (27.3%)

Total Members Voted: 11

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Offline MaxPWR

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[Poll] Electricity Consumption
« on: January 21, 2014, 06:48:50 AM »

Over in the hardware comparison thread, we have not really collected any power consumption data:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1803.0

I'd like to revive that by guessing how many windmills the network is using per block.

I'll collect my own power consumption data, compare to network stats, and calculate the overall power consumption for MMC in terms of 100 kW windmills.

The more data I have, the more accurate I can get.  If you have access to a kill-a-watt or similar, please let me know your stats.

It may take me a few days, so in the meantime, you can submit your guess above.

If you submit your own data, please include your hardware data and hash rate like in the cpu/gpu thread, along with any custom clock settings, and watts at the outlet while both idle and mining. 

E.g.:

Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3930K CPU @ 3.20GHz: 4.936 hash/min
Idle Power: X Watts
Mining Power: Y Watts

Radeon 7990 undervolted to 1050 mv 21h/m
Idle Power: X Watts
Mining Power: Y Watts
You can't stop the signal, Mal. Everything goes somewhere, and I go everywhere.

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Offline itsik78

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Re: [Poll] Electricity Consumption
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2014, 07:06:52 AM »
Very good idea.
Hopefully we can make an accurate CPU mining profit calculator out of this data and convince more CPU miners to join the game:
See if this helps:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_CPU_power_dissipation_figures

Offline MaxPWR

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Re: [Poll] Electricity Consumption
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2014, 04:46:25 PM »
Nice - thanks.

Is there any decrease in overall performance if you cpu mine while gpu mining? I've never really checked...
You can't stop the signal, Mal. Everything goes somewhere, and I go everywhere.

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Offline itsik78

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Re: [Poll] Electricity Consumption
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2014, 05:53:36 PM »
Nice - thanks.

Is there any decrease in overall performance if you cpu mine while gpu mining? I've never really checked...
I haven't checked as well.
I think there will be a very small and probably insignificant decrease in both since the GPU miner still needs some CPU computations to be done.

Offline Delinquency

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Re: [Poll] Electricity Consumption
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2014, 08:33:20 PM »
If you find your sweet spot for Overclocking you can undervolt and underclock to safe and stable temperatures.

However:
How much time will you spend saving power when you lose HPM time in the process?
Is it rational to save power when you know you are profiting?
We must create a detailed database of HPM per kWh vs. Ram, CPU, and Mobo specs.

Ditch Kill-a-watt: get this!
 http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Conserve-Insight-Energy-Use-Monitor/dp/B003P2UMP8/ref=sr_1_1/177-3199546-9079842?ie=UTF8&qid=1390336278&sr=8-1&keywords=Belkin+Power+Meter

Offline earntodie

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Re: [Poll] Electricity Consumption
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2014, 09:02:18 PM »
Over in the hardware comparison thread, we have not really collected any power consumption data:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1803.0

I'd like to revive that by guessing how many windmills the network is using per block.

I'll collect my own power consumption data, compare to network stats, and calculate the overall power consumption for MMC in terms of 100 kW windmills.

The more data I have, the more accurate I can get.  If you have access to a kill-a-watt or similar, please let me know your stats.

It may take me a few days, so in the meantime, you can submit your guess above.

If you submit your own data, please include your hardware data and hash rate like in the cpu/gpu thread, along with any custom clock settings, and watts at the outlet while both idle and mining. 

E.g.:

Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3930K CPU @ 3.20GHz: 4.936 hash/min
Idle Power: X Watts
Mining Power: Y Watts

Radeon 7990 undervolted to 1050 mv 21h/m
Idle Power: X Watts
Mining Power: Y Watts
I have wattmeter (made in china).
After 2..3 day I measure electricity consumption R9 280X (asus or powercolor) in single mode (1gb ram, 1 core celeron, MB Intel G31, 500W Zalman).
Please wait  :D
1GH CLUB!! PTS mining club - PTS.1GH.COM, MEMORY coin mining club - MMC.1GH.COM, MAX coin mining club - MAX.1GH.COM

Offline MaxPWR

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Re: [Poll] Electricity Consumption
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2014, 12:01:09 AM »
http://www.amazon.com/Kill-A-Watt-Electric-Strip-Audio-Electronics-General-Electroni/dp/B00GZRTROM/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1390348595&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=killawat+power+strip

Pricey, but better than a standard kill-a-watt.

I figure longer-term, we're looking at a lot of newer users who wouldn't be power-miners, so we can start with simple estimates and detailed clocking comparisons could come later.


You can't stop the signal, Mal. Everything goes somewhere, and I go everywhere.

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Offline Delinquency

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Re: [Poll] Electricity Consumption
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2014, 02:00:48 AM »
http://www.amazon.com/Kill-A-Watt-Electric-Strip-Audio-Electronics-General-Electroni/dp/B00GZRTROM/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1390348595&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=killawat+power+strip

Pricey, but better than a standard kill-a-watt.

I figure longer-term, we're looking at a lot of newer users who wouldn't be power-miners, so we can start with simple estimates and detailed clocking comparisons could come later.

I'm afraid that this circuit might only support 15A.
With that many power slots, I would need like 80A 120V

Crate for yer PC Rigs - Save $30-100 on a PC case.
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« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 06:40:38 AM by Delinquency »

Offline FreeTrade

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Re: [Poll] Electricity Consumption
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2014, 04:25:45 AM »
Latest stats on my test machine -

i7 3770 - 8GB

Switched off - 0.7 watts
on, idle - 38 watts
YAM, 7 threads, ~90% cpu use, 9.85 HPM - 107 watts
“People should be more sophisticated? How are you gonna get that done?” - Jerry Seinfeld reply to Bill Maher

Offline MaxPWR

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Re: [Poll] Electricity Consumption
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2014, 09:33:33 PM »
Anyways...ubuntu gpu caseless build never worked...need to restart.  need a good 2-5 new-build guide.

Miners buy electricity, spend time and labor on C/GPUs to make hashes which pools convert to MMC for miners who "redeem" them through merchants such as exchanges, goods, or services which can be priced in a fiat equivalent at time of trade.  Keeping more in-network longer raises prices vs. selling back to fiat immediately...

Anyways, back to class:

Will use FT's data for now.  Ignore labor and capital costs and time for now.  Equation can be applied on a per-user or per-network basis. 

Ignore time - everything below is on a "per time" basis, basically. The MMC network operating costs are basically:

Fiat ==Electric Rate==> Electricity ==C/GPU Hash Rate==> Hash ==Pool Payout==> MMC ==Merchant Service==> Fiat Eqv

F*R1=E
E*R2=H
H*R3=M
M*R4=P

F = Fiat Electric Cost (USD)
R1 = Electric Price (USD/kw-hr) = $0.12
E = Electricity used (kW-hr)
R2 = Hashes / Electricity Used (Hash/kW-hr)
H = Hashes / shares found (Hash)
R3 = Network hash / new block (Hash/MMC)
M = New MMC created / awarded (MMC)
R4 = Exchange rate for service / fiat (MMC/USD)
P = Final fiat equivalent value (USD)

Profit = P-F

From FT:
on, idle - 38 watts
YAM, 7 threads, ~90% cpu use, 9.85 HPM - 107 watts

R1 = $0.12

In one-hr:

R2 = (9.85 HPM*60 min/hr) / (107 Watt x 1 hr / 1000 W/kW) = 5500 hash/kW-hr

In six-minutes, network creates about 210 MMC per block per 6 minutes at a hash rate of about 41.2 kHpm, giving:

R3 = 210 / (41.2*6) = 0.8495145632 kH/MMC

R4 = 1/(850 USD/BTC * 0.00025 BTC/MMC) =  4.706 MMC/USD

We know now all the Rs, and know network hashes/MMC (H):

F = 5.39 USD
F*R1=E = 44.95 kW-hr
E*5500 hash/kW-hr=41.2*6 kH

41.2*6 hashes*0.852 kH/MMC=210 MMC

210 MMC*2.941 MMC/USD= 44.625 USD

That's per block award (i.e., per 6 mins).  We're basically using 45/6 = 7.5 kW.  A windmill is 15-30% efficient from its nameplate capacity (oversized to collect peak winds).  So...we're at about 1/2 of a 100 kW windmill, but making 800% on profits on Electricity-to-MMC so far?

Someone check my math...that order of magnitude seems off a bit? 
You can't stop the signal, Mal. Everything goes somewhere, and I go everywhere.

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Offline FreeTrade

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Re: [Poll] Electricity Consumption
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2014, 08:57:18 AM »
Haven't checked the math, but sounds about right to me. The high profit you mention is absorbed by the labour and capital costs I would think.
“People should be more sophisticated? How are you gonna get that done?” - Jerry Seinfeld reply to Bill Maher

Offline Mrrr

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Re: [Poll] Electricity Consumption
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2014, 10:09:08 AM »
If someone could front the 300.000$ for a 100KW turbine I'm sure Freetrade will gladly offer his backyard. MMC would be the first sustainable cryptocoin.

Offline MaxPWR

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Re: [Poll] Electricity Consumption
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2014, 04:29:04 PM »
Even easier - some electric companies have a renewable program option.  E.g., I can buy about 150 kWhr blocks for $2.

Create a site to organize miners to purchase renewable energy blocks, submit documentation, and trade at a premium to other MMC members as "eco-mined MMC".

In fact, fungibility would let you take any non-mined exchange-bought MMC, add a receipt for a renewable energy block, and "wash" / "color" it into a greencoin...
You can't stop the signal, Mal. Everything goes somewhere, and I go everywhere.

PWR UP: MAXVTEoYhDfWJjvkNm2ZmUhHpYbsPYuybg

 

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