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bitbro

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Forking
« on: February 19, 2014, 08:22:14 PM »

BitShares PTS/AGS holders should fork every single DAC that's produced to 50/50 of total equity just because.  We should even fork major developments like Ethereum as soon as they launch.

How can we be as sharp as possible at this? 


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Offline toast

Re: Forking
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2014, 10:05:21 PM »
I'd endorse this idea even without 50/50.

There are plenty of situations where I would be ok with having only 4/5ths of my share if the remaining 5th was allocated to fundraising for development for that DAC. Just like allocating 100% for development means you sacrifice distribution appeal, allocating 100% for distribution means you sacrifice other benefits you could have.

You have the right idea though, Stan wrote a whole post describing how we should expect this to happen.
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bitbro

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Re: Forking
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2014, 11:51:31 PM »
Maybe DACs will be forked multiple times, say first Ethereum comes out and is forked to PTS/AGS and donation pool at 40/40/10  ,  then someone forks it to 50/50 AGS/PTS,  then someone forks it to 100% AGS, then another to 100% PTS .......... How might the market support this?

Offline CLains

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Re: Forking
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2014, 12:36:57 PM »
We don't want to be greedy here. The moment AGS/PTS holders get a bad reputation their AGS/PTS will be worthless, as someone will fork everything we have and join the opposition in spite.

We need to fork by an honorable code that people will respect and give credit. Only if this honorable code is fair such that we are given proportional to our due investments will this work.

Fortunately, this is just the way Invictus has been developing. They focus on developing a social consensus, honoring a social contract and having a good reputation.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 12:50:15 PM by CLains »
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bitbro

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Re: Forking
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2014, 02:59:11 PM »
I see your point, but it seems all it takes is one greedy PTS/AGS holder or a saboteur I start this cycle


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bitbro

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Re: Forking
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2014, 03:02:06 PM »
Merely playing devil's advocate here, as I tend to do

Offline CLains

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Re: Forking
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2014, 04:18:25 PM »
It would still be up to the AGS/PTS holders majority to accept or reject it. I don't think it's a given that they will accept just any stolen idea. For instance, Invictus might reject a stolen idea, even if it allocates 100% to PTS/AGS holders. In the end there's a whole infrastructure (video promotion, comments on forums, etc.) that decides endorsement, and the network effect takes off from there.

If someone says to me they forked NXT and gave me 50%, I would chose to protect my reputation and not participate, in fact I would denounce the whole idea and distance myself from it. It would be stupid of me to participate in a scheme that will die a horrible death, as it would drag me down along with it. We should foster maximum foresight with regard to the allocations we accept.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 04:22:49 PM by CLains »
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Offline CLains

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Re: Forking
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2014, 04:24:11 PM »
But yes, playing devil's advocate is very important here. These are difficult issues, and I have no idea what the right answers are.
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Offline Geneko

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Re: Forking
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2014, 06:03:03 PM »
I think its perfectly ok to fork any idea NXT, Euthereum or any else.

Now someone would argue that idea has been stolen but this simply wound not be true. The idea would be stolen if it is physical property and taking it from someone would mean the owner wouldn’t be able to use it which is obviously not the case.

If Bitshare becomes widespread be sure that many will fork it. Like Ltc forked Btc, Pts forked Btc and etc..

Offline bytemaster

Re: Forking
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2014, 08:01:19 AM »
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sumantso

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Re: Forking
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2014, 10:13:30 AM »
^ nice one, bytemaster.

Offline Darkbane

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Re: Forking
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2014, 03:24:52 AM »
Shouldn't we demand invictus become a legally registered non-profit organization before we start creating a pyramid of forks for them to get cash flow from again and again? I mean if we're about protecting the community, shouldn't we start with them to protect us?

I say this because currently... they are a for-profit company... which means all these "donations" get taxed... do you think its right for them to pay 40-50% of taxes on our donations... when if they were a non-profit they would not be taxed at that rate and more of our money would be used for us?

that one step alone could save millions over the course of a year with the amount of money they are getting...
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 03:28:32 AM by Darkbane »

Offline bytemaster

Re: Forking
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2014, 06:49:11 AM »
Shouldn't we demand invictus become a legally registered non-profit organization before we start creating a pyramid of forks for them to get cash flow from again and again? I mean if we're about protecting the community, shouldn't we start with them to protect us?

I say this because currently... they are a for-profit company... which means all these "donations" get taxed... do you think its right for them to pay 40-50% of taxes on our donations... when if they were a non-profit they would not be taxed at that rate and more of our money would be used for us?

that one step alone could save millions over the course of a year with the amount of money they are getting...

The federal government imposes a tax on gifts larger than a certain amount. This tax is paid by the person giving the gift, not the recipient. The gift tax rules apply to gifts given by corporations. However, when gift tax is due on corporate gifts, it's not actually the corporation that's liable for paying the tax.

Individuals Only
According to the Internal Revenue Service, the gift tax applies only to "individuals" -- that is, people. Corporations do not pay gift tax, nor do other entities such as partnerships, estates or trusts. However, if a corporation does give a gift that qualifies for the tax, the tax still has to be paid by someone.

Paying the Tax
When a corporation gives a taxable gift, the stockholders of that corporation are liable for reporting and paying gift tax; each must file a gift tax return for his "share" of the gift. Tax law is essentially silent about how to divide up the responsibility, since corporations generally don't go around giving taxable gifts. Small-business corporations with just a handful of shareholders may be able to assess the responsibility fairly easily.

Related Reading: How Does a US Corporation Utilize Foreign Tax Credits?

Gifts Subject to Tax
Gift tax is assessed based on the total value of the gifts from a particular giver to a particular recipient. As of 2012, a giver could provide up to $13,000 worth of gifts to a recipient before the tax would apply. With such a limit, a business shouldn't have to worry about gift taxes for token gifts. Gifts to tax-exempt organizations, including charities, are not taxable
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Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Forking
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2014, 06:56:17 AM »
Additionally corporations only pay taxes on profits, not revenue. 

As long as our 2013 expenses match our income no tax is due.   

These issues are being handled by our accountants and lawyers and yes we have looked into non-profit status.
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Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

bitbro

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Re: Forking
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2014, 02:03:27 PM »
I3 likely won't dirty their hands with forking just for greater percentage equity, at least not publicly.




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